BMW newbie - Thuds/harsh upshifts in SportPlus (B58) normal?
Discussion
Thuds/harsh upshifts on recently bought 540i xDrive Touring (LCI)
Hi, I'm new here and recently bought a LCI 540i xDrive Touring.
It's my first BMW and first ZF, so maybe I just need to get used to it.
Loving it overall!
In Comfort, and ECO Pro, the gearbox is lovely and smooth.
But whenever I floor it in Sport / Sport Plus, I feel two what I would call thuds, shunts, jerks or jolts. This isn't what I expected i.e. I thought the B58 accelerated smoothly through the rpms.
It only seems to do this in Sport/Sport Plus.
Before I bought the car, the main dealer replaced the propshaft flexible coupling. On the test drive *before they replaced this, I didn't notice this behaviour flooring it up to motorway speeds.
Googling, it seems like it could be the fuel tank vent valve, CV joint / bearings, engine mount, transfer box (maybe just fluid low/needs replacing), ZF itself (or again just needs new ATF), Vanos solenoids, or mismatched tyres.
My mileage is 68,000 and it's got two Bridgestones at the front, with the same pattern, and two Pirelli I think at the back, again with matching patterns.
I just don't have time to take it back and forth to a dealer or indie to investigate through trial and error potentially over many weeks into months, so thought I would post here to get some initial thoughts on a ZF that's smooth all the time except in kick-down?
Hi, I'm new here and recently bought a LCI 540i xDrive Touring.
It's my first BMW and first ZF, so maybe I just need to get used to it.
Loving it overall!
In Comfort, and ECO Pro, the gearbox is lovely and smooth.
But whenever I floor it in Sport / Sport Plus, I feel two what I would call thuds, shunts, jerks or jolts. This isn't what I expected i.e. I thought the B58 accelerated smoothly through the rpms.
It only seems to do this in Sport/Sport Plus.
Before I bought the car, the main dealer replaced the propshaft flexible coupling. On the test drive *before they replaced this, I didn't notice this behaviour flooring it up to motorway speeds.
Googling, it seems like it could be the fuel tank vent valve, CV joint / bearings, engine mount, transfer box (maybe just fluid low/needs replacing), ZF itself (or again just needs new ATF), Vanos solenoids, or mismatched tyres.
My mileage is 68,000 and it's got two Bridgestones at the front, with the same pattern, and two Pirelli I think at the back, again with matching patterns.
I just don't have time to take it back and forth to a dealer or indie to investigate through trial and error potentially over many weeks into months, so thought I would post here to get some initial thoughts on a ZF that's smooth all the time except in kick-down?
MarkJS said:
I have the the B58 with the ZF8 gearbox and I have never experienced any of these symptoms. The gearbox is fantastic in all situations/configurations (as is the engine) in my experience.
Hmm, yes, your positive description is what I thought the B58 in mine would be like, so I've got a feeling mine might need looking at. But another reply has just said there's does shift aggressively in Sport+, so maybe this is what I'm feeling...I'm wondering if the facelist 48v mild hybrid model like mine makes a difference to the ZF shifting, as I can feel regenerative braking very strongly if I full-throttle the accelerator and then lift off entirely rather than modulate the throttle back down again. Which year is your B58?
danb79 said:
Yup; in Sport / Sport+ the changes are more aggressive; more so if everything is set to 11 
My pals 340i F30 is the same; as is our F31
As soon as they're back in Comfort they're smooth as cream
Thanks, this is really intriguing! Yep, everything is set to 'full' in Sport+ on mine, and when I kick-down from say 30mph fully into the carpet, it sort of 'notches' a couple of times before reaching motorway speeds. Maybe this is just normal for aggressive gear changes then. I admit, I only floor it in Sport/Sport+, not in Comfort or Eco Pro, so will see if there's a difference.My pals 340i F30 is the same; as is our F31
As soon as they're back in Comfort they're smooth as cream
toon10 said:
I had a 540i xDrive and as mentioned, everything goes very aggressive in Sport +. Sport was my default setting for a combination of throttle response, gearing and useability. Sport + was just used for the occasional fun bit of road. It's the same on my 340i.
Thank you 
So in Sport +. if you floored it, would you "feel" it change gear, rather than say a linear 3-litre petrol Lexus with a CVT that would just increase speed but without a couple of mini Concorde sound barrier type 'humps' on the way?
Emm540 said:
toon10 said:
I had a 540i xDrive and as mentioned, everything goes very aggressive in Sport +. Sport was my default setting for a combination of throttle response, gearing and useability. Sport + was just used for the occasional fun bit of road. It's the same on my 340i.
Thank you So in Sport +. if you floored it, would you "feel" it change gear, rather than say a linear 3-litre petrol Lexus with a CVT that would just increase speed but without a couple of mini Concorde sound barrier type 'humps' on the way?
Emm540 said:
Hmm, yes, your positive description is what I thought the B58 in mine would be like, so I've got a feeling mine might need looking at. But another reply has just said there's does shift aggressively in Sport+, so maybe this is what I'm feeling...
I'm wondering if the facelist 48v mild hybrid model like mine makes a difference to the ZF shifting, as I can feel regenerative braking very strongly if I full-throttle the accelerator and then lift off entirely rather than modulate the throttle back down again. Which year is your B58?
Perhaps more importantly, what year is yours? I'm wondering if the facelist 48v mild hybrid model like mine makes a difference to the ZF shifting, as I can feel regenerative braking very strongly if I full-throttle the accelerator and then lift off entirely rather than modulate the throttle back down again. Which year is your B58?
There are different flavours of ZF8 depending on model year, and some more are more jerky than others as they age.
As others have said, Sports are the most aggressive shift speeds and shift points because apparently, most people (according to BMW) like that kind of feedback. I don't, I hate it, which is why I use xHP so that I can reassign the shift speeds to my liking.
In any case, there shouldn't be very harsh thuds or jolts as you described it, but as it's your first ZF8 experience, I suspect it's normal and you're not used to it. You would soon know if the gearbox wasn't working as it should, or actually broken.
The biggest factor on shifting behaviour is engine torque and gear oil temperature. If the engine is having an off day. the shifts can be crap. If the gear oil is too hot, the shifts can be crap. It's just something we have to live with.
rottenegg said:
Perhaps more importantly, what year is yours?
There are different flavours of ZF8 depending on model year, and some more are more jerky than others as they age.
As others have said, Sports are the most aggressive shift speeds and shift points because apparently, most people (according to BMW) like that kind of feedback. I don't, I hate it, which is why I use xHP so that I can reassign the shift speeds to my liking.
In any case, there shouldn't be very harsh thuds or jolts as you described it, but as it's your first ZF8 experience, I suspect it's normal and you're not used to it. You would soon know if the gearbox wasn't working as it should, or actually broken.
The biggest factor on shifting behaviour is engine torque and gear oil temperature. If the engine is having an off day. the shifts can be crap. If the gear oil is too hot, the shifts can be crap. It's just something we have to live with.
Hi. Thanks very much for your reply. My 540i xDrive Touring is a 2021 model, so the 48v mild hybrid etcetera.There are different flavours of ZF8 depending on model year, and some more are more jerky than others as they age.
As others have said, Sports are the most aggressive shift speeds and shift points because apparently, most people (according to BMW) like that kind of feedback. I don't, I hate it, which is why I use xHP so that I can reassign the shift speeds to my liking.
In any case, there shouldn't be very harsh thuds or jolts as you described it, but as it's your first ZF8 experience, I suspect it's normal and you're not used to it. You would soon know if the gearbox wasn't working as it should, or actually broken.
The biggest factor on shifting behaviour is engine torque and gear oil temperature. If the engine is having an off day. the shifts can be crap. If the gear oil is too hot, the shifts can be crap. It's just something we have to live with.
I guess you're right that I would know if the gearbox was broken or playing up significantly, because it would behave strangely at all times - but in Eco Pro and Comfort it's absolutely fine, and very smooth 95% of the time. It just jerks occasionally when setting off from a cold start, from 1st into 2nd, and very occasionally in slow-moving traffic queues. It's just when I floor it that I feel a couple of kicks in the back.
As I'm a new member I can't post motion pictures, but have found amongst all the EweTube movies (which mostly show very smooth-shifting 540is - including LCIs like mine) one which shows those couple of kicks in the back that I describe. If you paste this onto the end of the .com you should be able to view it:
/shorts/rvz6DLuRIX4
Emm540 said:
rottenegg said:
Perhaps more importantly, what year is yours?
There are different flavours of ZF8 depending on model year, and some more are more jerky than others as they age.
As others have said, Sports are the most aggressive shift speeds and shift points because apparently, most people (according to BMW) like that kind of feedback. I don't, I hate it, which is why I use xHP so that I can reassign the shift speeds to my liking.
In any case, there shouldn't be very harsh thuds or jolts as you described it, but as it's your first ZF8 experience, I suspect it's normal and you're not used to it. You would soon know if the gearbox wasn't working as it should, or actually broken.
The biggest factor on shifting behaviour is engine torque and gear oil temperature. If the engine is having an off day. the shifts can be crap. If the gear oil is too hot, the shifts can be crap. It's just something we have to live with.
Hi. Thanks very much for your reply. My 540i xDrive Touring is a 2021 model, so the 48v mild hybrid etcetera.There are different flavours of ZF8 depending on model year, and some more are more jerky than others as they age.
As others have said, Sports are the most aggressive shift speeds and shift points because apparently, most people (according to BMW) like that kind of feedback. I don't, I hate it, which is why I use xHP so that I can reassign the shift speeds to my liking.
In any case, there shouldn't be very harsh thuds or jolts as you described it, but as it's your first ZF8 experience, I suspect it's normal and you're not used to it. You would soon know if the gearbox wasn't working as it should, or actually broken.
The biggest factor on shifting behaviour is engine torque and gear oil temperature. If the engine is having an off day. the shifts can be crap. If the gear oil is too hot, the shifts can be crap. It's just something we have to live with.
I guess you're right that I would know if the gearbox was broken or playing up significantly, because it would behave strangely at all times - but in Eco Pro and Comfort it's absolutely fine, and very smooth 95% of the time. It just jerks occasionally when setting off from a cold start, from 1st into 2nd, and very occasionally in slow-moving traffic queues. It's just when I floor it that I feel a couple of kicks in the back.
As I'm a new member I can't post motion pictures, but have found amongst all the EweTube movies (which mostly show very smooth-shifting 540is - including LCIs like mine) one which shows those couple of kicks in the back that I describe. If you paste this onto the end of the .com you should be able to view it:
/shorts/rvz6DLuRIX4
The behaviour you describe is how they are, and always have been since generation 1. 1st to 2nd is a large jump rpm and ratio wise as 2nd gear is just the torque converter. You will inevitably feel large ratio jumps. You may also find it hangs onto 2nd longer than desired when crawling along slowly.
The ZF8 has 3 shifting speeds. Standard, Medium and Fast. Standard is for EcoPro and Comfort. Medium is for Sports and Sports + gets Fast. Due to how these gearboxes work, the smoothness comes purely from slow clutch engagement/disengagment. Quicker shifts have faster clutch engagement, and as you can probably tell where this is going..... the faster you grab and let go of a clutch, the jerkier it becomes. Exactly the same principal a manual gearbox.
Now when you engage clutches that quickly, the engine and trans mounts, driveshaft couplings, rear subframe bushes etc etc all have the job of absorbing that jolt. Inside the trans itself, it's brutal. Due to the nature of rubber and how it changes from cold to hot, it can create somewhat inconsistent feeling shifts in Sports and Sports +. And that problem is compounded as said components age/wear out.
You'll get used to it!
xHP software is a worth a look if you've not got extended warranty as you use that to dial in the shifting exactly how you want it. If you're not familiar with it, the first thing Alpina do when they get a car from BMW is put their own gearbox software onto it! xHP is the same thing, just a different company.
BMW's standard ZF8 mapping is actually pretty horrible. Other brands that use the same box, such as Jaguar, have much nicer shift mappings.
Edited by rottenegg on Friday 18th July 12:35
Do they still make a siren noise in DS? My old 2012 530i ZF used to sound like a distant siren but only in DS mode, from when I had it till around 50k miles when it stopped making the noise.
Concur on the upshift thuds too, as long as they're not too harsh like metal hitting metal which might suggest a propshaft coupling done wrong, i.e. not enough relief on the centre bearing (or however its called).
Concur on the upshift thuds too, as long as they're not too harsh like metal hitting metal which might suggest a propshaft coupling done wrong, i.e. not enough relief on the centre bearing (or however its called).
rottenegg said:
OK, that'll be the 3rd generation ZF8 which isn't known for any common mechanical issues yet.
The behaviour you describe is how they are, and always have been since generation 1. 1st to 2nd is a large jump rpm and ratio wise as 2nd gear is just the torque converter. You will inevitably feel large ratio jumps. You may also find it hangs onto 2nd longer than desired when crawling along slowly.
The ZF8 has 3 shifting speeds. Standard, Medium and Fast. Standard is for EcoPro and Comfort. Medium is for Sports and Sports + gets Fast. Due to how these gearboxes work, the smoothness comes purely from slow clutch engagement/disengagment. Quicker shifts have faster clutch engagement, and as you can probably tell where this is going..... the faster you grab and let go of a clutch, the jerkier it becomes. Exactly the same principal a manual gearbox.
Now when you engage clutches that quickly, the engine and trans mounts, driveshaft couplings, rear subframe bushes etc etc all have the job of absorbing that jolt. Inside the trans itself, it's brutal. Due to the nature of rubber and how it changes from cold to hot, it can create somewhat inconsistent feeling shifts in Sports and Sports +. And that problem is compounded as said components age/wear out.
You'll get used to it!
xHP software is a worth a look if you've not got extended warranty as you use that to dial in the shifting exactly how you want it. If you're not familiar with it, the first thing Alpina do when they get a car from BMW is put their own gearbox software onto it! xHP is the same thing, just a different company.
BMW's standard ZF8 mapping is actually pretty horrible. Other brands that use the same box, such as Jaguar, have much nicer shift mappings.
I have done roughly 75,000 miles with 2 cars and 2 manufacturers with a ZF8 gearbox. I don’t doubt that they were set up completely differently for each application. The behaviour you describe is how they are, and always have been since generation 1. 1st to 2nd is a large jump rpm and ratio wise as 2nd gear is just the torque converter. You will inevitably feel large ratio jumps. You may also find it hangs onto 2nd longer than desired when crawling along slowly.
The ZF8 has 3 shifting speeds. Standard, Medium and Fast. Standard is for EcoPro and Comfort. Medium is for Sports and Sports + gets Fast. Due to how these gearboxes work, the smoothness comes purely from slow clutch engagement/disengagment. Quicker shifts have faster clutch engagement, and as you can probably tell where this is going..... the faster you grab and let go of a clutch, the jerkier it becomes. Exactly the same principal a manual gearbox.
Now when you engage clutches that quickly, the engine and trans mounts, driveshaft couplings, rear subframe bushes etc etc all have the job of absorbing that jolt. Inside the trans itself, it's brutal. Due to the nature of rubber and how it changes from cold to hot, it can create somewhat inconsistent feeling shifts in Sports and Sports +. And that problem is compounded as said components age/wear out.
You'll get used to it!
xHP software is a worth a look if you've not got extended warranty as you use that to dial in the shifting exactly how you want it. If you're not familiar with it, the first thing Alpina do when they get a car from BMW is put their own gearbox software onto it! xHP is the same thing, just a different company.
BMW's standard ZF8 mapping is actually pretty horrible. Other brands that use the same box, such as Jaguar, have much nicer shift mappings.
Edited by rottenegg on Friday 18th July 12:35
I have never experienced any of the above and no thuds etc etc that the OP describes. Sport & Sport+ is definitely more crisp in the way the gearbox shifts but other than a change of engine tone (noise-wise) and acceleration obviously with each shift it/they have performed faultlessly. This goes for either full Auto or Paddles which I probably use every day at some point.
Something regarding a ZF8 gearshift that can be described as a thud in this case tells me that something isn’t quite right IME.
MarkJS said:
I have done roughly 75,000 miles with 2 cars and 2 manufacturers with a ZF8 gearbox. I don t doubt that they were set up completely differently for each application.
I have never experienced any of the above and no thuds etc etc that the OP describes. Sport & Sport+ is definitely more crisp in the way the gearbox shifts but other than a change of engine tone (noise-wise) and acceleration obviously with each shift it/they have performed faultlessly. This goes for either full Auto or Paddles which I probably use every day at some point.
Something regarding a ZF8 gearshift that can be described as a thud in this case tells me that something isn t quite right IME.
Thanks very much for your insights and experience of two different brands of cars both with ZF8s.I have never experienced any of the above and no thuds etc etc that the OP describes. Sport & Sport+ is definitely more crisp in the way the gearbox shifts but other than a change of engine tone (noise-wise) and acceleration obviously with each shift it/they have performed faultlessly. This goes for either full Auto or Paddles which I probably use every day at some point.
Something regarding a ZF8 gearshift that can be described as a thud in this case tells me that something isn t quite right IME.
Yes, I'm therefore a bit concerned about mine, so will test it at motorway speeds again this weekend (opportunities are limited because of my work), and then potentially book it in at the dealer.
Did you manage to watch this clip from someone else whose car shifts the same as mine (and presumably they think theirs is normal as nobody flagged it in comments as iffy)?
youtube[dot]com/shorts/rvz6DLuRIX4
I've had two BMWs with the same gearbox and your description of yours doesn't tally with my experiences. Sport is meant to feel sharper but jolts/thuds doesn't sound normal.
You mentioned that on the test drive these noises/sensations weren't present but post-test drive a propshaft coupling was replaced? Could this have been fitted incorrectly or has the new part with tighter tolerances exposed an issue with the drivetrain?
You mentioned that on the test drive these noises/sensations weren't present but post-test drive a propshaft coupling was replaced? Could this have been fitted incorrectly or has the new part with tighter tolerances exposed an issue with the drivetrain?
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