Another one bites the dust: Hawker Restorations

[Tony1963]

I’ve been informed by a friend who runs another business at Elmsett airfield that due to problems recruiting and retaining people with the required skill sets combined with low demand for expensive Hurricanes, Hawker Restorations have gone belly up and will vacate their premises before the end of August. Remaining work has gone to Duxford. It’s also becoming more and more difficult to do their sort of work with evermore legislation, and in the end people throw up their arms and say “I’ve had enough. Bye bye.”

A real shame, but during my time at nearby Wattisham there seemed to be a revolving door operating for employees.

[zsdom]

Tony1963 said:

It s also becoming more and more difficult to do their sort of work with evermore legislation

What do you mean their sort of work & what legislation is stopping it?

[Tony1963]

zsdom said:

What do you mean their sort of work & what legislation is stopping it?

Legislation for aviation engineering NEVER makes anything easier. No matter what area of it you’re in, everything just gets worse and more difficult. In the end, smaller organisations owned and run by older people just become overwhelmed.

[Simpo Two]

Pity. I had a tour round there about 20 years ago and it was fascinating.

[aeropilot]

That's very sad news, the premier Hurricane restoration shop in the world, but as you say, the Hurricane is an expensive aircraft to restore, and everyone wants a Spitfire not the poor old Hurricane and likely there will be no more once these in-build ones are done at Duxford, especially as the skills needed to do a Hurri are clearly now going to disappear.

[5 In a Row]

Didn't they move premises a couple of years ago?

Hopefully whatever skills they had will be snapped up by someone else who have a wider restoration focus.

[aeropilot]

I wonder how long Air Leasing at Sywell will continue after the sad early passing of Richard Grace last year....?

TFC are pretty much out of the game now, they seem to be gradually selling off a lot of their fleet, their Corsair is now all cocooned up ready for its shipping back to the USA to its new owner. And with no Legends, I'm not sure TFC will ever finish off the handfull of remaining restorations sitting in their hangar. The Beau and Fiat will seemingly never be finished to fly, and that just leaves the Mk.24 Spit and the Sea Fury, I suspect both unlikely to be ever finished....likely be sold as ongoing projects?

The elephant in the room of course with respect to the big piston warbirds is the demise of 100LL Avgas within the next 7-10 years, and as yet no certified replacement for high power big piston engines on the horizon.

[Tony1963]

5 In a Row said:

Didn't they move premises a couple of years ago?
Hopefully whatever skills they had will be snapped up by someone else who have a wider restoration focus.

Yes, they moved from near to Monks Eleigh to Elmsett.

At least two of the employees have gone back to Wattisham to resume work on the E model Apaches. Good skin bashers/structures guys. I don t know how many were there.
In the last few weeks I ve been asked to come out of retirement to work at Wattisham, Marshall of Cambridge and Marham on F-35s. No thank you, I m enjoying early retirement, and getting hot n sweaty n cut n tired n bruised doesn t appeal when compared to doing what the hell I like every single day. It’s good though that the work is there, at least for now.

Edited by Tony1963 on Tuesday 8th July 15:01

Edited by Tony1963 on Tuesday 8th July 15:02

[aeropilot]

Tony1963 said:

In the last few weeks I ve been asked to come out of retirement to work at Wattisham, Marshall of Cambridge and Marham on F-35s.

F-35's......you'd be put straight on a plane and sent out to India

[zsdom]

Tony1963 said:

zsdom said:

What do you mean their sort of work & what legislation is stopping it?

Legislation for aviation engineering NEVER makes anything easier. No matter what area of it you re in, everything just gets worse and more difficult. In the end, smaller organisations owned and run by older people just become overwhelmed.

Whilst I dont disagree with you overall I will disagree that legislation change is behind their (rumoured) closure, plenty of other organisations are going from strength to strength

The warbird scene is probably as healthy as its been for a very long time despite what others may make up and it’s only getting better

[hidetheelephants]

aeropilot said:

The elephant in the room of course with respect to the big piston warbirds is the demise of 100LL Avgas within the next 7-10 years, and as yet no certified replacement for high power big piston engines on the horizon.

Is this just war birds or piston engines generally? Given the size of GA in the US I'd assume the FAA will have an eye on it, what about CAA or EASA? Synthetic fuel can be made readily enough but certifying for flight won't be fun given the costs involved.

[GliderRider]

There are a finite number of people with the requisite skills and experieince to work on these older designs and the cost of living away from home can be exhorbitant. A few years ago, a work colleague left where I was, to work on a Supermarine Walrus restoration at Audley End. He was back within a month or two as local accomodation was prohibitively expensive.

[zsdom]

GliderRider said:

There are a finite number of people with the requisite skills and experieince to work on these older designs and the cost of living away from home can be exhorbitant. A few years ago, a work colleague left where I was, to work on a Supermarine Walrus restoration at Audley End. He was back within a month or two as local accomodation was prohibitively expensive.

Companies are taking on apprentices, 2 good friends of mine are employed by ARCO on their apprenticeships scheme, the Just Jane team have an appentice on board, I’m sure there are many others too.

Accomodation for non locals can be daft but some have thought about this, Ultimate Warbirds at Sywell own a property near the airfield for their employees to use, when the BBMF Lancaster was having its major at Duxford someome I knew bought a caravan to live in whilst working on it

[aeropilot]

zsdom said:

GliderRider said:

There are a finite number of people with the requisite skills and experieince to work on these older designs and the cost of living away from home can be exhorbitant. A few years ago, a work colleague left where I was, to work on a Supermarine Walrus restoration at Audley End. He was back within a month or two as local accomodation was prohibitively expensive.

Companies are taking on apprentices, 2 good friends of mine are employed by ARCO on their apprenticeships scheme, the Just Jane team have an appentice on board, I m sure there are many others too.

Yeah, John R was originally a De Havilland apprentice, and it was always his intention to make sure ARCo would take on apprentices to carry on the skills. I was talking to him about it at Goodwood Revival a few years back while he was cleaning the Buchon

[IanH755]

Tony1963 said:

In the last few weeks I ve been asked to come out of retirement to work at Wattisham, Marshall of Cambridge and Marham on F-35s. No thank you, I m enjoying early retirement, and getting hot n sweaty n cut n tired n bruised doesn t appeal when compared to doing what the hell I like every single day. It s good though that the work is there, at least for now.

That seems like its a good choice. From what I've heard from others who've also been asked about doing that role, its not doing well at retaining folks and doesn't seem like an enjoyable job.

[bergclimber34]

And that shows why people with similar skills or transferable ones don't stand a chance, makes me sick.

[aeropilot]

IanH755 said:

Tony1963 said:

In the last few weeks I ve been asked to come out of retirement to work at Wattisham, Marshall of Cambridge and Marham on F-35s. No thank you, I m enjoying early retirement, and getting hot n sweaty n cut n tired n bruised doesn t appeal when compared to doing what the hell I like every single day. It s good though that the work is there, at least for now.

That seems like its a good choice. From what I've heard from others who've also been asked about doing that role, its not doing well at retaining folks and doesn't seem like an enjoyable job.

Yep, a guy I know, his grandson who was in the RAF was transferred to work on F-35 at Marham and then deployed on the Big Liz for its first sailing back in 2021(?) and hated it, as he said, I joined the RAF, and if I had wanted to go to sea I'd have joined the bloody Navy. I think after he got back he was trying to get out or a transfer, but have lost touch with his grand dad over past 18 months so not sure what his situation is now. At the time, I believe he wasn't the only RAF F-35 techie than wanted away from the thing, or having to go to sea with it.

[Tony1963]

IanH755 said:

That seems like its a good choice. From what I've heard from others who've also been asked about doing that role, its not doing well at retaining folks and doesn't seem like an enjoyable job.

To be fair, it depends on what you end up doing. I just know that I’d end up removing fasteners and receptacles, removing corrosion etc. all day every day after a fifty mile commute. £30/hr isn t enough for me now, as I feel so fortunate in my current situation.

Edited by Tony1963 on Wednesday 9th July 10:40

[IanH755]

Tony1963 said:

To be fair, it depends on what you end up doing. I just know that I d end up removing fasteners and receptacles, removing corrosion etc. all day every day after a fifty mile commute. £30/hr isn t enough for me now, as I feel so fortunate in my current situation.

Edited by Tony1963 on Wednesday 9th July 10:40

Yeap, that's the specific job I've talked to people about. IIRC it started at £24/h initially as well but had to increase due to retention issues.

[sasquar]

thats a real shame. We did a small amount of work for them a few years ago, seemed a really good outfit, in an very interesting industry..... cant imagine anyone is going to open any more of these sorts of businesses starting any time soon.....