Private mortgages structure and rate.
Private mortgages structure and rate.
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Discussion

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,598 posts

48 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all

An investor wants to buy a couple of investment properties we own, unencumbered. We are aware that mortgages are taking a long time now and are considering offering private mortgages.

It would be a company buying them.

What structure and rate shall I suggest? Obviously they need to pay our legals.

I am thinking no more than five years, or otherwise a punitive interest rate past that point.

Any thoughts?


LooneyTunes

8,308 posts

174 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
Furbo said:
otherwise a punitive interest rate past that point.
Have a read up on the enforceability (or otherwise) of punitive rates.

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,598 posts

48 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
LooneyTunes said:
Furbo said:
otherwise a punitive interest rate past that point.
Have a read up on the enforceability (or otherwise) of punitive rates.
Assuming you mean it cannot be enforced, does that apply too to commercial?

Panamax

6,575 posts

50 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
Furbo said:
Any thoughts?
You're proposing to lend somebody else the money to buy from you property that you already own. If they can't get a commercial mortgage in the market why would you take on a risk that nobody else wants?

Sarnie

8,227 posts

225 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
Furbo said:
We are aware that mortgages are taking a long time now
What makes you think that?

Ziplobb

1,459 posts

300 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
most important consideration is what will you do and how will you enforce non payment of the mortgage ?

It will be costly to take posession - who will cover those costs
It will take time - can you afford to be without the return you are getting by making the loan
Is the occupier a third party ?
What will you do if you end up with it in the event of non payment - you want to sell now but in that scenario you will presumably need to sell so are back to square one

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,598 posts

48 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
Sarnie said:
Furbo said:
We are aware that mortgages are taking a long time now
What makes you think that?
Experience. Lots of experience. The last one took nine months think.

These are blocks of flats by the way.

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,598 posts

48 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
Panamax said:
Furbo said:
Any thoughts?
You're proposing to lend somebody else the money to buy from you property that you already own. If they can't get a commercial mortgage in the market why would you take on a risk that nobody else wants?
They’ve bought other properties from us. This is about getting the job done quickly, mostly.

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,598 posts

48 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
Ziplobb said:
most important consideration is what will you do and how will you enforce non payment of the mortgage ?

It will be costly to take posession - who will cover those costs
It will take time - can you afford to be without the return you are getting by making the loan
Is the occupier a third party ?
What will you do if you end up with it in the event of non payment - you want to sell now but in that scenario you will presumably need to sell so are back to square one
First charge. We will repossess. Legal costs will be in the contract.

We will be using a commercial lawyer for the loan paperwork.

I am more interested in what people (with experience if there are any) think may be a reasonable LTV, term, interest rate.

Not huge sums of money. About £500k asset value total.

Panamax

6,575 posts

50 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
Furbo said:
I am more interested in what people (with experience if there are any) think may be a reasonable LTV, term, interest rate.
Look at the mortgage market and then ADD the additional level of risk you are taking by lending to someone who can't get a mortgage.

Mortgage rates c.5%
Credit card rates c.25%
Payday loans c.100%

I can't help thinking the whole thing has a strange smell about it. Most particularly, I'd expect an "investor" to have money to invest, or at least a source of funding.

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,598 posts

48 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
Panamax said:
Furbo said:
I am more interested in what people (with experience if there are any) think may be a reasonable LTV, term, interest rate.
Look at the mortgage market and then ADD the additional level of risk you are taking by lending to someone who can't get a mortgage.

Mortgage rates c.5%
Credit card rates c.25%
Payday loans c.100%

I can't help thinking the whole thing has a strange smell about it. Most particularly, I'd expect an "investor" to have money to invest, or at least a source of funding.
No strange smell. They have 40%, they need the balance. The last ones this buyer bought took maybe four months using appropriate lenders. The last ones we sold to someone else took eight or nine.

Things aren’t iffy just because you don’t understand them.



kiethton

14,275 posts

196 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
All of the above but I'd be wanting 40% of the GAV up front to reflect the equity component of a typical senior loan at a decent ICR.

In the balance I'd be viewing it as a vendor bridging loan, these are generally 1-1.25% a month. I'd limit the term to 12m and have a default rate which can be charged beyond that point. Should be more than enough time for the purchaser to arrange traditional financing.

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,598 posts

48 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
kiethton said:
All of the above but I'd be wanting 40% of the GAV up front to reflect the equity component of a typical senior loan at a decent ICR.

In the balance I'd be viewing it as a vendor bridging loan, these are generally 1-1.25% a month. I'd limit the term to 12m and have a default rate which can be charged beyond that point. Should be more than enough time for the purchaser to arrange traditional financing.
We offered bridging to another buyer recently who was struggling to meet an agreed deadline and yes those were the sorts of numbers.

But with these two properties and this buyer I am prepared to be a bit more gentle and offer a longer term to boot.







LooneyTunes

8,308 posts

174 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
Furbo said:
LooneyTunes said:
Furbo said:
otherwise a punitive interest rate past that point.
Have a read up on the enforceability (or otherwise) of punitive rates.
Assuming you mean it cannot be enforced, does that apply too to commercial?
I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that yes it does apply to commercial transactions too.

It is one to discuss with whoever is going to structure the deal as there may be other ways around it.

Furbo

Original Poster:

1,598 posts

48 months

Saturday 5th July
quotequote all
LooneyTunes said:
Furbo said:
LooneyTunes said:
Furbo said:
otherwise a punitive interest rate past that point.
Have a read up on the enforceability (or otherwise) of punitive rates.
Assuming you mean it cannot be enforced, does that apply too to commercial?
I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that yes it does apply to commercial transactions too.

It is one to discuss with whoever is going to structure the deal as there may be other ways around it.
Yes there will, I am sure.