Turkey's (non) entry to the EU
Discussion
Well done to Austria for, so far, sticking to their guns and denying Turkey full membership to the EU. The only way I want to see Turkey in the EU is if they take our place! It's embarrassing that we have such a moron (Jack Straw) "representing" us. If they are so sure this is what Europe wants then why don't they let us vote on it? Probably because the last time they did they got totally humiliated.
Turkey is too big, too poor and completely undemocratic. They bring nothing to the table and should be kept out.
Turkey is too big, too poor and completely undemocratic. They bring nothing to the table and should be kept out.
It’s a bit of a difficult one this. Geographically and historically I don’t feel that Turkey is a natural part of the EU and so I have reservations about the idea, as do the majority of the European general public. However, I also recognise that this is not the best time to clearly state at a political level that a Moslem country can not be part of our democratic club - it doesn’t exactly send out the right signals, at a time when we are supposedly trying to ‘democratacise’ the Middle East. Anyway, we’ve already let the French in, so the precedent is screwed! 
The issue would probably have stayed quiet until Dubya pushed it at a political level to reward the Turks for being allies – our leaders obviously went along with this. In reality, they will try to put an insurmountable list of prerequisites between the Turks and eventual membership, passing on the responsibility of an actual decision to future politicians. the wishy-washy bastards....
The issue would probably have stayed quiet until Dubya pushed it at a political level to reward the Turks for being allies – our leaders obviously went along with this. In reality, they will try to put an insurmountable list of prerequisites between the Turks and eventual membership, passing on the responsibility of an actual decision to future politicians. the wishy-washy bastards....
thing is.. alot of this tripe was dolled aout to spain when they joined, too poor, diiferent culure, etc, etc
Saw an article today about the reality in Turkeys economy today, and how far and fast it is growing and has come...
The question posed was, does Turkey still want/need the eu, and all its ways, bureacracy, unaccountability, legislation, etc.
B
Edited to add, do we really want it either?
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 3rd October 13:31
Saw an article today about the reality in Turkeys economy today, and how far and fast it is growing and has come...
The question posed was, does Turkey still want/need the eu, and all its ways, bureacracy, unaccountability, legislation, etc.
B
Edited to add, do we really want it either?
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 3rd October 13:31
bjwoods said:
thing is.. alot of this tripe was dolled aout to spain when they joined, too poor, diiferent culure, etc, etc
Saw an article today about the reality in Turkeys economy today, and how far and fast it is growing and has come...
The question posed was, does Turkey still want/need the eu, and all its ways, bureacracy, unaccountability, legislation, etc.
B
Edited to add, do we really want it either?
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 3rd October 13:31
we are talking about a country that has a workforce capable of manufacturing Mercedes. Turkey may be poor right now but the economy is powering ahead, so it won't always be so.
'Old Europe' really is old in the age sense, there are not going to be enough young Italians, Spanish, French, Germans and Brits to pay for a large elderly population.
We need the young Turkish workers in the EU, and sooner rather than later in order to integrate them.
timmy30 said:
'Old Europe' really is old in the age sense, there are not going to be enough young Italians, Spanish, French, Germans and Brits to pay for a large elderly population.
Maybe the billions we are throwing into this "experiment" could go a large way into addressing this particular problem
esselte said:
'Old Europe' really is old in the age sense, there are not going to be enough young Italians, Spanish, French, Germans and Brits to pay for a large elderly population.
Maybe the billions we are throwing into this "experiment" could go a large way into addressing this particular problem
So what's your alternative method of creating 35m educated ready made workers overnight then? Spending billions developing a cloning machine?
There are arguments for and against Turkey's membership.
Against
It is after all the EUROPEAN Union and Turkey has only a limited geographical presence in Europe and is not culturally European.
It is much poorer than the EU average, significantly poorer than the new members recently added.
It still does not have the protection for minorities expected of an EU member, not even close at present.
It is so large that once admitted it will have a very significant influence over the rest of the EU (Soon it will have a larger population than any EU member)
For
To lock Turkey into the western world.
To bring into the EU a country which has a young population in order to provide a workforce to other members.
I am still undecided on the issue.
Against
It is after all the EUROPEAN Union and Turkey has only a limited geographical presence in Europe and is not culturally European.
It is much poorer than the EU average, significantly poorer than the new members recently added.
It still does not have the protection for minorities expected of an EU member, not even close at present.
It is so large that once admitted it will have a very significant influence over the rest of the EU (Soon it will have a larger population than any EU member)
For
To lock Turkey into the western world.
To bring into the EU a country which has a young population in order to provide a workforce to other members.
I am still undecided on the issue.
timmy30 said:
'Old Europe' really is old in the age sense, there are not going to be enough young Italians, Spanish, French, Germans and Brits to pay for a large elderly population.
I suspect that there are plenty of young Brits around, te problem is that the majority of them are a net drain on public resource rather than contributors...
timmy30 said:
timmy30 said:
'Old Europe' really is old in the age sense, there are not going to be enough young Italians, Spanish, French, Germans and Brits to pay for a large elderly population.
Maybe the billions we are throwing into this "experiment" could go a large way into addressing this particular problem
So what's your alternative method of creating 35m educated ready made workers overnight then? Spending billions developing a cloning machine?
Will Turkey be a nett recipient from the EU,or will they contribute more than they will receive?Where do we draw the European "border"? or is everyone invited?(Remeber we are supposed to have open borders within the EU)
pdV6 said:
'Old Europe' really is old in the age sense, there are not going to be enough young Italians, Spanish, French, Germans and Brits to pay for a large elderly population.
I suspect that there are plenty of young Brits around, te problem is that the majority of them are a net drain on public resource rather than contributors...
Sad but true, the breeding estates are keeping the demographics for the UK just about positive but they're hardly churning out future tax payers.
timmy30 said:
timmy30 said:
'Old Europe' really is old in the age sense, there are not going to be enough young Italians, Spanish, French, Germans and Brits to pay for a large elderly population.
I suspect that there are plenty of young Brits around, te problem is that the majority of them are a net drain on public resource rather than contributors...
Sad but true, the breeding estates are keeping the demographics for the UK just about positive but they're hardly churning out future tax payers.
Exactly the problem, but the way to solve it is not to "import" a load of people, but to face hard facts and fix it.
If you took the money this nation has "paid" into the EU over the last 20 years then I'm sure that would give us a good start.....
J-Skid said:
pdV6 said:
timmy30 said:
'Old Europe' really is old in the age sense, there are not going to be enough young Italians, Spanish, French, Germans and Brits to pay for a large elderly population.
I suspect that there are plenty of young Brits around, te problem is that the majority of them are a net drain on public resource rather than contributors...
Sad but true, the breeding estates are keeping the demographics for the UK just about positive but they're hardly churning out future tax payers.
Exactly the problem, but the way to solve it is not to "import" a load of people, but to face hard facts and fix it.
If you took the money this nation has "paid" into the EU over the last 20 years then I'm sure that would give us a good start.....
That's what I said.
J-Skid said:
Exactly the problem, but the way to solve it is not to "import" a load of people, but to face hard facts and fix it.
Unfortunately the only practical solution is to do just that. Otherwise taxes will have to be so high on the remaining workforce that they won't be able to afford to have any children at all.
Since Turkey began its application for the EU, we've seen them ban the death penalty, stop the large-scale persecution of Kurds and even (with the advent of a Kurdish tv station) acknowledged that their culture has a right to exist in Turkey, and seen the military accept a moderate government led by someone they previously jailed when previously they would have launched a coup and replaced it with one of their choosing (as they have done three times in the recent past). We've had the beginnings of talks over Cyprus and a more liberalised economy.
Turkey has made a massive effort to be considered worthy of EU membership and that effort should be rewarded if we want that to continue. Whatever our own private opinion of the EU, it has made Turkey a country far more in keeping with our own values.
Furthermore, if for some reason you are anti-Europe you should be hammering for Turkey to be let in. It will be infinitely harder to create a political union with states of disparate religions and backgrounds, than just the old guard of Fr,Ger and Benelux.
Finally, if we are pissed off about losing money on Europe, we shouldn't be shouting about Turkey, but about CAP which drains far more money from our collective coffers for the sake of some french farmers than any subsidies we might give to Turkey.
Turkey has made a massive effort to be considered worthy of EU membership and that effort should be rewarded if we want that to continue. Whatever our own private opinion of the EU, it has made Turkey a country far more in keeping with our own values.
Furthermore, if for some reason you are anti-Europe you should be hammering for Turkey to be let in. It will be infinitely harder to create a political union with states of disparate religions and backgrounds, than just the old guard of Fr,Ger and Benelux.
Finally, if we are pissed off about losing money on Europe, we shouldn't be shouting about Turkey, but about CAP which drains far more money from our collective coffers for the sake of some french farmers than any subsidies we might give to Turkey.
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