When you can't find someones will
Discussion
My 82yr old mother is terminally ill and probably only has a few months to live, dad died many years ago and despite mum then subsequently making a will leaving everything to her three children (she has no siblings) and naming us executors, I can only find a copy of the will, not the original which I believe is needed.
Me, my brother and sister are named on her LPA's which we are using to organise and manage her financial affairs hence how we have discovered the will issue when examining her financial paperwork. She made the will back in 2019 via a will writing company called 'Securus Planning' as a result of receiving a telephone cold call from them (yes, I know!!) and who now seem to have gone out of business with phone calls to them going unanswered.
I doubt she'll be able to make a new will due to her poor health, so other than paying to search the National Will Register I assume she will die intestate?
My question is, when dying intestate how will this effect/delay/complicate sorting out the process of dividing up her estate to her children?
Me, my brother and sister are named on her LPA's which we are using to organise and manage her financial affairs hence how we have discovered the will issue when examining her financial paperwork. She made the will back in 2019 via a will writing company called 'Securus Planning' as a result of receiving a telephone cold call from them (yes, I know!!) and who now seem to have gone out of business with phone calls to them going unanswered.
I doubt she'll be able to make a new will due to her poor health, so other than paying to search the National Will Register I assume she will die intestate?
My question is, when dying intestate how will this effect/delay/complicate sorting out the process of dividing up her estate to her children?
I don’t think there will be any particular issues as such when it comes to dividing up your Mums estate given the family rules of intestate.
The issues may come from having to deal with various FI ‘s and the like just using a copy will.
If Securus did their job properly the original should have been kept securely or at least registered with the NWS.
I suppose the only other thing is someone else coming out of the woodwork to claim on your Mums estate but hopefully not !
If all else fails and you find it all too painful just get a solicitor on a fixed price contract to deal with it.
The issues may come from having to deal with various FI ‘s and the like just using a copy will.
If Securus did their job properly the original should have been kept securely or at least registered with the NWS.
I suppose the only other thing is someone else coming out of the woodwork to claim on your Mums estate but hopefully not !
If all else fails and you find it all too painful just get a solicitor on a fixed price contract to deal with it.
It's really frustrating, a few years ago we discussed with mum the importance of making a will, her best friend has a son who is a solicitor who could have done this for her, yet she refused saying 'there's no need, my children will get everything regardless'.
Then a year or two later she answered a cold telephone call from a completely unknown will writing company and paid them to write a will and do LPA's. God knows how much she paid, but to do so with a cold caller was a little alarming for us, especially when we had access to a solicitor. We were never sure of the integrity of the documents.
It turns out the LPA's were in order as we are now using them, and I assume the (lost) will is in order too, but by using an unknown cold calling company we now have the problem of them having gone bust and we can't find the will.
Whilst she might be right in that her children will inherit, that is never guaranteed and doesn't lessen the frustration.
Then a year or two later she answered a cold telephone call from a completely unknown will writing company and paid them to write a will and do LPA's. God knows how much she paid, but to do so with a cold caller was a little alarming for us, especially when we had access to a solicitor. We were never sure of the integrity of the documents.
It turns out the LPA's were in order as we are now using them, and I assume the (lost) will is in order too, but by using an unknown cold calling company we now have the problem of them having gone bust and we can't find the will.
Whilst she might be right in that her children will inherit, that is never guaranteed and doesn't lessen the frustration.
I'm not an expert but have a little experience. I understand that when a will is written by a company they can/are supposed to register it with a central body. You can pay a company to do a will search for you and they can find it if it has been registered. Sorry this is a bit vague but it was a long time ago, just google will search or similar.
At least the LPA’s were ok to use given the circumstances.
I hadn’t appreciated you didn’t even have a copy will so hopefully the NWS will have a copy or Securus answer the phone - I took the liberty of having a check on line and the reviews and general comments / filing history aren’t the best !
I hadn’t appreciated you didn’t even have a copy will so hopefully the NWS will have a copy or Securus answer the phone - I took the liberty of having a check on line and the reviews and general comments / filing history aren’t the best !
cb31 said:
I'm not an expert but have a little experience. I understand that when a will is written by a company they can/are supposed to register it with a central body. You can pay a company to do a will search for you and they can find it if it has been registered. Sorry this is a bit vague but it was a long time ago, just google will search or similar.
Thanks, I'm going to pay for a search to be done..https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk
alscar said:
At least the LPA s were ok to use given the circumstances.
I hadn t appreciated you didn t even have a copy will so hopefully the NWS will have a copy or Securus answer the phone - I took the liberty of having a check on line and the reviews and general comments / filing history aren t the best !
I do have a copy of the will, but I believe it's the original that is required by financial institutions etc.I hadn t appreciated you didn t even have a copy will so hopefully the NWS will have a copy or Securus answer the phone - I took the liberty of having a check on line and the reviews and general comments / filing history aren t the best !
The LPA's being good gives me some hope, I just hope that Secures registered the will.
The Gauge said:
I do have a copy of the will, but I believe it's the original that is required by financial institutions etc.
The LPA's being good gives me some hope, I just hope that Secures registered the will.
Yes it’s the original they will ask for hence my earlier comment. The LPA's being good gives me some hope, I just hope that Secures registered the will.
Fingers crossed for you with the registration.
Well if it's this company it still has active directors so pop round & ask them where the original is lodged?
https://find-and-update.company-information.servic...
https://find-and-update.company-information.servic...
Mr Pointy said:
Well if it's this company it still has active directors so pop round & ask them where the original is lodged?
https://find-and-update.company-information.servic...
Thanks, does this suggest they are being struck off or closed sown?....https://find-and-update.company-information.servic...
When I wound up my late father's affairs some ten years ago only the Coop Bank demanded a 'certified copy' of his will. As the will had been drawn up some time in the early part of this century before dad became affected by Vascular Dementia by a solicitor I just had to pay them a modest fee for the certified copy, I think it was about £45.
I spoke over the phone to the solicitor's office, they confirmed that they held the will but it was stored elsewhere and would need to be recovered. They phoned me back once that had been done and I was able to confirm that their version was the same as mine!
I found the Coop Bank particularly difficult to deal with, to the point that I wrote to their CEO, cash was then into my account within days.
I spoke over the phone to the solicitor's office, they confirmed that they held the will but it was stored elsewhere and would need to be recovered. They phoned me back once that had been done and I was able to confirm that their version was the same as mine!
I found the Coop Bank particularly difficult to deal with, to the point that I wrote to their CEO, cash was then into my account within days.
Exiled Imp said:
Is she legally able to make a will? (of sound mind, etc.). If so, it may be easier/quicker to re-do the will.
I’d say yes, but she has days when she appears confused, probably due the the slow release morphine combined with being in oxygen 24/7. I feel a bit uncomfortable about getting her to sign a new will, even a DIY will as it makes me appear greedy. This feeling would increase tenfold if a solicitor were to visit her when she’s having a bad day. Morally it doesn’t feel right and has an air of desperation on my part, even though I know it’s what mum wants. alscar said:
The Gauge said:
I do have a copy of the will, but I believe it's the original that is required by financial institutions etc.
The LPA's being good gives me some hope, I just hope that Secures registered the will.
Yes it s the original they will ask for hence my earlier comment. The LPA's being good gives me some hope, I just hope that Secures registered the will.
Fingers crossed for you with the registration.
My mother did a £6.50 will that I bought from WH Smith, the only thing the probate office asked when I registered it was whether it was originally bound together being two pages. It wasn't but they accepted it.
(Top tip make sure it is bound or if only two pages do it double sided.)
It might be worth a call to the Probate office to ask their advice about the copy of the will.
If there is nothing but the copy your best way forward is simply to re-date it and re-sign it with new original signatures, following the appropriate procedure (i.e. testator and witnesses present at the same time.)
Failing that, it's possible to get Probate with a copy Will. That needs a court order and the court will want to be sure there's no indication the testator changed their mind and destroyed the Will.
Failing that, it's possible to get Probate with a copy Will. That needs a court order and the court will want to be sure there's no indication the testator changed their mind and destroyed the Will.
The Gauge said:
I d say yes, but she has days when she appears confused, probably due the the slow release morphine combined with being in oxygen 24/7. I feel a bit uncomfortable about getting her to sign a new will, even a DIY will as it makes me appear greedy. This feeling would increase tenfold if a solicitor were to visit her when she s having a bad day. Morally it doesn t feel right and has an air of desperation on my part, even though I know it s what mum wants.
Hopefully you will be able to find that copy and avoid this. But given you already know her wishes and her estate is being left to the 3 (?) of you I wouldn’t discount this idea out of hand.
It’s nothing for you to feel bad about.
Having a solicitor do it may actually take the pressure of you - and your siblings.
If your Mum isn’t capable as such then the Solicitor won’t agree to it anyway.
Sadly mum died two days ago.
As we have not found her original will I have paid for a search via the National Will Register, but their payment conformation email states that if a will is found then the law firm who made the will will be asked to contact me. However the law firm Securus Planning Ltd seem to be out of business so I don't see how they can contact me..
As we have not found her original will I have paid for a search via the National Will Register, but their payment conformation email states that if a will is found then the law firm who made the will will be asked to contact me. However the law firm Securus Planning Ltd seem to be out of business so I don't see how they can contact me..
I have recent experience of exactly this sitch. Mum died, only a copy of the will -;which was made 30yrs ago by a solicitor which mo longer exists.
It would have been MUCH better if she had died intestate. Only me and my sis, everything split down the middle between us which is what would have happened if there was no will.
As it was, what with various fruitless searches for the original will, and the probate office faffing about trying to trace the witnesses of the will (one dead, the other vanished) it took 18 months to get probate.
Whole experience made me wonder sometimes whether the whole 'You must have a will" is really more about keeping solicitors busy than anything else.
I do have a will, however. And have recently updated it;)
It would have been MUCH better if she had died intestate. Only me and my sis, everything split down the middle between us which is what would have happened if there was no will.
As it was, what with various fruitless searches for the original will, and the probate office faffing about trying to trace the witnesses of the will (one dead, the other vanished) it took 18 months to get probate.
Whole experience made me wonder sometimes whether the whole 'You must have a will" is really more about keeping solicitors busy than anything else.
I do have a will, however. And have recently updated it;)
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff