Head vs Heart: M2 Competition or 1M Clone with S65
Discussion
I am in the market for a new car. The two front runners are a nice safe M2 Competition (probably with a BMW warranty) or a 16 year old 1 series with 1M body panels, and M3 running gear (https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-106---2009-bmw-1m-40-v8-evocation/).
It's a very head vs heart decision, I am telling myself I don't have time for a second car that's also a hobby (I have a lot of these in my history, I like to tinker), I just want something fun and reliable for weekend drives and fun road trips across Europe. But then there is the idea of *that V8* in the prettiest 4-seater that BMW have every made (IMO).
It's a nice problem to have, but my brain is doing doughnuts back and forth. Does anyone have strong opinions either way?
or
It's a very head vs heart decision, I am telling myself I don't have time for a second car that's also a hobby (I have a lot of these in my history, I like to tinker), I just want something fun and reliable for weekend drives and fun road trips across Europe. But then there is the idea of *that V8* in the prettiest 4-seater that BMW have every made (IMO).
It's a nice problem to have, but my brain is doing doughnuts back and forth. Does anyone have strong opinions either way?
or
justin220 said:
Belle427 said:
M2 all day every day, personally I would not touch the 1 series no matter how well it had been done.
Completely agreeWon’t be that easy to shift the 1 series when the time comes to change either. It’s a very niche product.
As an aside, but on a related point, I am starting to go off NA cars for daily driving. I don’t think the M2C motor is as special as a high revving V8, but I just find the NA motors quite hard work unless you are really up in the rev range. I suppose it is driving the turbo petrol/diesels over the years that has done that to me. Years ago (perhaps even 20) there was an article in Evo where a representative of M was talking about why they don’t use turbo motors. How times have changed.
ATM said:
ATM said:
Seller listed this on m3cutters too.
Seller says it's still for saleIts pretty good value at £30K given what it would cost to build one.
But as a seller you're really waiting on someone to wake up some morning and think 'i'd really like a V8 BMW coupe, but i dont want an M3'.
Edited by Deep Thought on Wednesday 16th July 10:21
Deep Thought said:
ATM said:
ATM said:
Seller listed this on m3cutters too.
Seller says it's still for sale"in theory" its pretty good value at £30K.
I guess theres not too many ppl out there willing to take the plunge.
I had an e46 converted with corvette engine. It was an absolute beast. Many many aspects far from perfect or not great. But plenty that were good IF you like big angry engine in smaller car.
Some people value perfect paint, pretty interiors etc etc etc.
Some people value a unique car which no one else has.
Our car wants are all very different. I just don't know if the 1 series footprint is small enough to add enough fun factor over just buying an out the box e92 or e90 or m2 or Porsche or Elise or whatever else over this home brewed special.
ATM said:
Ir depends what you want in a car.
I had an e46 converted with corvette engine. It was an absolute beast. Many many aspects far from perfect or not great. But plenty that were good IF you like big angry engine in smaller car.
Some people value perfect paint, pretty interiors etc etc etc.
Some people value a unique car which no one else has.
Our car wants are all very different. I just don't know if the 1 series footprint is small enough to add enough fun factor over just buying an out the box e92 or e90 or m2 or Porsche or Elise or whatever else over this home brewed special.
Agreed - i tweaked my original post but must have been after you quoted.I had an e46 converted with corvette engine. It was an absolute beast. Many many aspects far from perfect or not great. But plenty that were good IF you like big angry engine in smaller car.
Some people value perfect paint, pretty interiors etc etc etc.
Some people value a unique car which no one else has.
Our car wants are all very different. I just don't know if the 1 series footprint is small enough to add enough fun factor over just buying an out the box e92 or e90 or m2 or Porsche or Elise or whatever else over this home brewed special.
When thinking about it, its pretty good value for what it is, but its maybe answering a question that very people ask. £30K would buy an exceptional M3 V8 - or as has been pointed out, a M2 Comp.
As "something different" its definitely up there - and that'll be what sells it to someone. Would definitely be a talking point.
Deep Thought said:
its maybe answering a question that very v8 crazy people ask
I wander how much lighter it is. Especially when e92 can come with carbon roof etc. Google says 1m weighs 1495kg
E92 m3 weighs 1690kg
I reckon the v8 lump will be heavier than the 6 pot lump but I've not checked. So let's say ball park 200kg saving or a bit less. It's still 10% probably and that makes the maths simple and that's not to be scoffed at. But 1690 is a heavy car anyway.
And then you have the big debate about manual and dct. Plus white isn't really a colour. It's complicated isn't it.
ATM said:
I wander how much lighter it is. Especially when e92 can come with carbon roof etc.
1m weighs 1495kg
E92 m3 weighs 1690kg
I reckon the v8 lump will be heavier than the 6 pot lump but I've not checked. So let's say ball park 200kg saving or a bit less. It's still 10% probably and that makes the maths simple and that's not to be scoffed at. But 1690 is a heavy car anyway.
And then you have the big debate about manual and dct. Plus white isn't really a colour. It's complicated isn't it.
Were you as lonely as a cloud 1m weighs 1495kg
E92 m3 weighs 1690kg
I reckon the v8 lump will be heavier than the 6 pot lump but I've not checked. So let's say ball park 200kg saving or a bit less. It's still 10% probably and that makes the maths simple and that's not to be scoffed at. But 1690 is a heavy car anyway.
And then you have the big debate about manual and dct. Plus white isn't really a colour. It's complicated isn't it.
A fully dressed N54 is less than 10kg lighter than a fully dressed S65 (likewise there's very little difference weight wise, between the S54 and the S65).
The build thread on M3C is a bit light on detail, but it looks to have been done by someone that knows their stuff.
The only real downside (from my perspective) is the use of glassfibre rear quarter panels.
I totally understand why they were used (the OE steel items are ridiculously expensive, and were on back order, or NLA, when I last checked)
Is it worth £30K ? Clearly no one thinks so (yet)
The issue is (without stating the obvious) it's not a 1M coupe, it's not an E92 M3, it's a high miles 116D shell with an S65 drivetrain and some spurious rear quarter panels.
When you can buy a high miles 1M Coupe for £9k more :
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202505292...
and it'll always have a decent residual value, it makes the S65 engined car look expensive.
There'll be those that say building the equivalent car would cost waaaay more than £30k, it definitely would, but there's not exactly a queue of people looking to build or buy such cars, so it's not a particularly valid point.
Furthermore, the S65 isn't exactly a paragon of reliability (rod bearings and throttle actuators done on this engine) neither could it be called parsimonious either ...
Slippydiff said:
Were you as lonely as a cloud
A fully dressed N54 is less than 10kg lighter than a fully dressed S65 (likewise there's very little difference weight wise, between the S54 and the S65).
The build thread on M3C is a bit light on detail, but it looks to have been done by someone that knows their stuff.
The only real downside (from my perspective) is the use of glassfibre rear quarter panels.
I totally understand why they were used (the OE steel items are ridiculously expensive, and were on back order, or NLA, when I last checked)
Is it worth £30K ? Clearly no one thinks so (yet)
The issue is (without stating the obvious) it's not a 1M coupe, it's not an E92 M3, it's a high miles 116D shell with an S65 drivetrain and some spurious rear quarter panels.
When you can buy a high miles 1M Coupe for £9k more :
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202505292...
and it'll always have a decent residual value, it makes the S65 engined car look expensive.
There'll be those that say building the equivalent car would cost waaaay more than £30k, it definitely would, but there's not exactly a queue of people looking to build or buy such cars, so it's not a particularly valid point.
Furthermore, the S65 isn't exactly a paragon of reliability (rod bearings and throttle actuators done on this engine) neither could it be called parsimonious either ...
All of this is very true.A fully dressed N54 is less than 10kg lighter than a fully dressed S65 (likewise there's very little difference weight wise, between the S54 and the S65).
The build thread on M3C is a bit light on detail, but it looks to have been done by someone that knows their stuff.
The only real downside (from my perspective) is the use of glassfibre rear quarter panels.
I totally understand why they were used (the OE steel items are ridiculously expensive, and were on back order, or NLA, when I last checked)
Is it worth £30K ? Clearly no one thinks so (yet)
The issue is (without stating the obvious) it's not a 1M coupe, it's not an E92 M3, it's a high miles 116D shell with an S65 drivetrain and some spurious rear quarter panels.
When you can buy a high miles 1M Coupe for £9k more :
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202505292...
and it'll always have a decent residual value, it makes the S65 engined car look expensive.
There'll be those that say building the equivalent car would cost waaaay more than £30k, it definitely would, but there's not exactly a queue of people looking to build or buy such cars, so it's not a particularly valid point.
Furthermore, the S65 isn't exactly a paragon of reliability (rod bearings and throttle actuators done on this engine) neither could it be called parsimonious either ...
Its neither fish nor fowl.
And yes, it would cost more to build one, but who wants to build one, when you can get a M3 v8 for that money anyway, or an M2C, or for a bit more a higher miles 1M.
It will definitely be a slow burner in terms of selling time. I guess anything odd ball is. I'd probably be allocating six months to sell that, personally. You do really need someone to wake up some morning with a desire (and £30,000) to buy that.
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