Panamera - ownership proposition?

[donkmeister]

I'm pondering getting a Panamera in the next two years. Probably a late 4.8 Turbo in the liftback body style, but I might be able to stretch to an early 4.0. This would be used as a daily driven family car, 10-12k miles per year of mostly sedate driving with the odd blast.

I've had a few fast barges in my time, so I'm experienced in the fact that a complicated and powerful car which was expensive new, doesn't magically become cheap to run once depreciation has taken a chunk out of the car's resale value.

What's the general experience of reliability for these cars built around the 2015-2018 timeframe? Besides basic fluids servicing and consumables, how much time do you find it spends in the workshop? With a 2004 Mercedes I have found that I either spend zero on repairs, or I have a £3k bill. Averages to about £1k a year in repairs. What are you finding when keeping one long term?

[Mosdef]

donkmeister said:

I'm pondering getting a Panamera in the next two years. Probably a late 4.8 Turbo in the liftback body style, but I might be able to stretch to an early 4.0. This would be used as a daily driven family car, 10-12k miles per year of mostly sedate driving with the odd blast.

I've had a few fast barges in my time, so I'm experienced in the fact that a complicated and powerful car which was expensive new, doesn't magically become cheap to run once depreciation has taken a chunk out of the car's resale value.

What's the general experience of reliability for these cars built around the 2015-2018 timeframe? Besides basic fluids servicing and consumables, how much time do you find it spends in the workshop? With a 2004 Mercedes I have found that I either spend zero on repairs, or I have a £3k bill. Averages to about £1k a year in repairs. What are you finding when keeping one long term?

I had 3 Panamera on the trot, a 2012 GTS, a 2014 Turbo S and then a 2019 Turbo, and after a decade of Porsche ownership I jumped ship late last year to Maserati but still have a big soft spot for Panameras.

My view is that the pre-2016 Panameras were better built than later ones and were generally more luxurious, with comfier seats, better noise insulation and a softer ride - the last two of which could be made more aggressive if the sports exhaust option had been fitted. I found the 2019 car suffered from pretty awful tyre noise and wasn’t quite as relaxing as the previous model but was still an amazing car.

Reliability wise, each car had its own problems. My GTS gearbox developed a judder at low speed downshifts that couldn’t be fixed. My Turbo S felt solid as a rock but had problems with A/C and a leaking PDCC reservoir but both were fixed under warranty. The 2019 car was generally fine but the front suspension creaked and rattled, which Porsche wasn’t keen to fix under warranty so I got the ombudsman involved and after a 9 month quarrel, I got it fixed for free (the problem became apparent 4 months after I bought the car from an OPC). Despite my 2019 car having the sports exhaust, that didn’t make a huge difference, something Porsche addressed with the 2020-ish facelift, when they also revised the suspension to give a better ride and also added better noise insulation.

Overall, I think I preferred the 4.8 engine to the 4.0. It was developed before environmental legislation made engines slightly muted and dull and it also felt like it had more grunt to me.

I don’t think there’s a bad choice at all but they’re quite different cars. As you’ll know, any heavy, high performance saloon will eat through consumables if driven reasonably hard but I wouldn’t have any qualms about buying another at some stage.

Forgot to add, the electronics on the later Panamera weren’t great, very glitchy and the phone connection was somewhat intermittent, not just for calls but music too. We had the same problem with both my wife’s Cayennes, which is why we now have a Mercedes.

[donkmeister]

That's a brilliant summary and some great insight into Panamera ownership, thank you!

I've pointed out a few on the roads and Mrs D quite likes the looks too. So it's now top of the "next car" list.

[Mosdef]

You’re welcome, I’m sure you’ll de delighted if you go ahead with a purchase. For what it’s worth, I think they really need a V8, regardless of generation.

I only sold mine because I fancied a change and also found my longer journeys (350-ish miles) on poor roads were exhausting me, so I went for something more relaxing.

Panamera are great used buys, just be careful with spec. Well specified cars sell relatively quickly, portly specified ones can be really barnacles for dealers…some have been on the market for 2 years plus. If you need any help with spec, I’d be happy to help.

[The Gauge]

Am I right in thinking you can fit a towbar to a Panamera?

[donkmeister]

Yes... I understand that to avoid a (tow)ball-ache of a job the "towbar preparation" has to have been specified as a minimum when the car was new.

It's actually one of the options I will be looking out for; I have never been averse to using a nice car to tow. A stout V8 is great for towing, plus I have a bike rack for family outings. I never tow a caravan or big trailer but I have seen a shooting brake with a car on a trailer behind it.

[Skrambles]

Mosdef said:

Forgot to add, the electronics on the later Panamera weren t great, very glitchy and the phone connection was somewhat intermittent, not just for calls but music too. We had the same problem with both my wife s Cayennes, which is why we now have a Mercedes.

We've also found the electronics quite glitchy on my wife's Cayenne (late 2021 e-hybrid), with it randomly dropping and eventually re-connecting bluetooth, or requiring signing in 'verification' of my wife's Porsche ID (and often refusing to accept her password). The bluetooth can be especially annoying if you're on a long drive and haven't got a chance to pull over and spend time troubleshooting.

I'm curious: what Mercedes did you go for and how has it/the experience differed from Porsche?

[Mosdef]

Skrambles said:

Mosdef said:

Forgot to add, the electronics on the later Panamera weren t great, very glitchy and the phone connection was somewhat intermittent, not just for calls but music too. We had the same problem with both my wife s Cayennes, which is why we now have a Mercedes.

We've also found the electronics quite glitchy on my wife's Cayenne (late 2021 e-hybrid), with it randomly dropping and eventually re-connecting bluetooth, or requiring signing in 'verification' of my wife's Porsche ID (and often refusing to accept her password). The bluetooth can be especially annoying if you're on a long drive and haven't got a chance to pull over and spend time troubleshooting.

I'm curious: what Mercedes did you go for and how has it/the experience differed from Porsche?

We had exactly that issue but on the new Cayenne, a late 2023 model. We bought it at trade price in January this year and expected it to be broadly similar to our 2018 model but it wasn’t. The ride was appalling even with air suspension, nothing like as smooth as our previous model, also with air suspension, and the tracking on motorways and dual carriageways was dreadful, despite a full geo check. Wind noise was bad at higher speeds too. The door handles creaked on the inside, the speed warning was a pain in the backside, needing to be reset every time we turned on the car, same for active steering / lane assist. It also seemed to spend a lot of time booting up when we got in the car. The engine (base spec 3 litre) was half decent, much better than our previous one but incredibly thirsty for what it was. The 18 way seats seemed much firmer than our last cars and after 2-3 hours I found them pretty uncomfortable.

We sold the Cayenne after four months, the shortest time we’ve ever kept a car and went for a nearly new GLE53 AMG, which I find better in every respect, the only difference perhaps being that the Cayenne’s dash feels marginally better made. Otherwise, the Merc is more refined, faster, the tech is better, the sound system is miles better than the Bose in the Porsche and if you can get a night edition, they’re fully loaded…soft close doors, massaging seats, electric everything. As a car to just get in and waft about in, I find it much better than the new Cayenne. The previous model Cayenne is a better car in my opinion but living in London, I’d be concerned about headlight theft.

[Skrambles]

Mosdef said:

We had exactly that issue but on the new Cayenne, a late 2023 model. We bought it at trade price in January this year and expected it to be broadly similar to our 2018 model but it wasn t. The ride was appalling even with air suspension, nothing like as smooth as our previous model, also with air suspension, and the tracking on motorways and dual carriageways was dreadful, despite a full geo check. Wind noise was bad at higher speeds too. The door handles creaked on the inside, the speed warning was a pain in the backside, needing to be reset every time we turned on the car, same for active steering / lane assist. It also seemed to spend a lot of time booting up when we got in the car. The engine (base spec 3 litre) was half decent, much better than our previous one but incredibly thirsty for what it was. The 18 way seats seemed much firmer than our last cars and after 2-3 hours I found them pretty uncomfortable.

We sold the Cayenne after four months, the shortest time we ve ever kept a car and went for a nearly new GLE53 AMG, which I find better in every respect, the only difference perhaps being that the Cayenne s dash feels marginally better made. Otherwise, the Merc is more refined, faster, the tech is better, the sound system is miles better than the Bose in the Porsche and if you can get a night edition, they re fully loaded soft close doors, massaging seats, electric everything. As a car to just get in and waft about in, I find it much better than the new Cayenne. The previous model Cayenne is a better car in my opinion but living in London, I d be concerned about headlight theft.

I like the ride on the air suspension in my wife's car, but it's the first car we've had with it, and coming from X5 sport models with a fairly firm setup. I also think it can be a bit thirsty, but only when I run it exclusively in Sport rather than Hybrid mode (to be expected I suppose).

I'll take a look at the Merc when time comes to change - thanks.

[Mosdef]

The air suspension on the model you have is excellent. Porsche spent a fortune on the air suspension for the current model but I think it’s a step backwards, too firm and it follows ruts on dual carriageways like a sniffer dog.