Is poor lane discipline proportional to the number of lanes?
Discussion
As a Midlander, I don't often go near the South East, but a few weeks ago, I needed to make a trip to Epsom. I picked my day and time carefully to avoid the worst of the traffic, so it wasn't the carpark it often is.
On the quiet M40, I found the usual number of MLM - utterly oblivious to the fact that they were overtaking fresh air. I had my usual 'doing laps' fun with some of them, overtaking in lane 3, cutting back to lane one, slowing down and then repeating it a couple of times until they moved over, or I got bored - usually the latter.
However, on sections of the M25, there were LOADS of lane three morons - people cruising along at 60 or less when the rest of the traffic was doing 70(ish). Quite a few drivers sailed past in lanes one or two, but many were too scared and either hung back, or crammed into lane four to pass the L3M. I even came across someone in lane four at one point, doing well under 60, when there was nothing in the first three lanes - I cruised past at 70 in lane one...
Is it an M25 thing? A London thing? Or is it simply that the more lanes there are, the worse the discipline becomes?
Rant over - breathe...
On the quiet M40, I found the usual number of MLM - utterly oblivious to the fact that they were overtaking fresh air. I had my usual 'doing laps' fun with some of them, overtaking in lane 3, cutting back to lane one, slowing down and then repeating it a couple of times until they moved over, or I got bored - usually the latter.
However, on sections of the M25, there were LOADS of lane three morons - people cruising along at 60 or less when the rest of the traffic was doing 70(ish). Quite a few drivers sailed past in lanes one or two, but many were too scared and either hung back, or crammed into lane four to pass the L3M. I even came across someone in lane four at one point, doing well under 60, when there was nothing in the first three lanes - I cruised past at 70 in lane one...
Is it an M25 thing? A London thing? Or is it simply that the more lanes there are, the worse the discipline becomes?
Rant over - breathe...
Yep, 4 Lane motorways have been rended almost completely pointless by the mouth breathing 
s who've swapped lane 2 for lane 3 and in some cases lane 4.
On recent trip to Woking and back, from Sheffield, I undertook 6 cars travelling in lane 4 whilst I was in lane 1. Majority were Tesla's presumably on autopilot whilst their owners were deciding what to flavour their tofu with.
s who've swapped lane 2 for lane 3 and in some cases lane 4. On recent trip to Woking and back, from Sheffield, I undertook 6 cars travelling in lane 4 whilst I was in lane 1. Majority were Tesla's presumably on autopilot whilst their owners were deciding what to flavour their tofu with.
Tbf whenever I drive the M25, I end up stuck in L1 behind a bunch of people trying to jump traffic on the slip road so L1 comes to a complete stop as they try and barge their way in. Repeat this every other mile and it soon gets tiring. Get in L3 and you don't have to worry about it.
However, no, I see poor lane discipline just as much in the north.
However, no, I see poor lane discipline just as much in the north.
Nigel_O said:
...I had my usual 'doing laps' fun with some of them, overtaking in lane 3, cutting back to lane one, slowing down and then repeating it a couple of times until they moved over, or I got bored - usually the latter...
Somewhere, in a parallel universe, is there a thread dedicated to people that engage in this sort of behaviour?I did 600 miles on motorways over the weekend, and the number of people in the wrong lane was truly mind-boggling. I undertook quite a few, because free lanes allowed it. Other times I was able to overtake and pull back across 1 if not 2 lanes, to where I should be. But each time you change lane you introduce a risk, so to make a game of it sounds dangerous.
Everybody knows
Hard shoulder if its a smart motorway, never go there unless you need to leave the motorway and then only at the very last second.
Lane 1, 56mph with the lorries
lane 2, 56 - 65 mph
Lane 3, 65 - nearly 70 mph
Lane 4, 70+ mph
if there is a lane 5 only go there if you are really confident.
Hard shoulder if its a smart motorway, never go there unless you need to leave the motorway and then only at the very last second.
Lane 1, 56mph with the lorries
lane 2, 56 - 65 mph
Lane 3, 65 - nearly 70 mph
Lane 4, 70+ mph
if there is a lane 5 only go there if you are really confident.
Edited by ARHarh on Monday 30th June 14:08
John D. said:
It's proportional to traffic density. The more crowded the roads get, the worse people drive.
Not too sure on that really.I drive down the M3 most weekday mornings between 4 and 5am and I will come across 75% of drivers in lane 2 and 3 sitting below 70 mph despite very light traffic.
In fact, there was literally only myself and a van on Friday morning as far as the eye can see and I caught up with him with cruise control on 76mph and passed him in lane 1 very easily while he sat in lane 4!
Morons everywhere at anytime!
Turbobanana said:
Nigel_O said:
...I had my usual 'doing laps' fun with some of them, overtaking in lane 3, cutting back to lane one, slowing down and then repeating it a couple of times until they moved over, or I got bored - usually the latter...
Somewhere, in a parallel universe, is there a thread dedicated to people that engage in this sort of behaviour?I did 600 miles on motorways over the weekend, and the number of people in the wrong lane was truly mind-boggling. I undertook quite a few, because free lanes allowed it. Other times I was able to overtake and pull back across 1 if not 2 lanes, to where I should be. But each time you change lane you introduce a risk, so to make a game of it sounds dangerous.
Also I’m not sure what it’s meant to achieve apart from wasting time and petrol.
The M25 feels notoriously terrible for this and I can only assume it's a combination of lazy driving (too many on/off lanes which require active observation if the lane you're in becomes an exit lane) and a large number of people who perhaps don't usually use a motorway/70mph roads living in London and have suddenly found themselves needing to go further and are thus panicking at 60mph.
Countdown said:
Turbobanana said:
Nigel_O said:
...I had my usual 'doing laps' fun with some of them, overtaking in lane 3, cutting back to lane one, slowing down and then repeating it a couple of times until they moved over, or I got bored - usually the latter...
Somewhere, in a parallel universe, is there a thread dedicated to people that engage in this sort of behaviour?I did 600 miles on motorways over the weekend, and the number of people in the wrong lane was truly mind-boggling. I undertook quite a few, because free lanes allowed it. Other times I was able to overtake and pull back across 1 if not 2 lanes, to where I should be. But each time you change lane you introduce a risk, so to make a game of it sounds dangerous.
Also I m not sure what it s meant to achieve apart from wasting time and petrol.
al78 said:
I reckon it is down to situational awareness in the general population dropping off a cliff over the last decade or so. The sheer gormlessness of some people out and about is ridiculous sometimes, especially in SE England.
Undoubtedly true. But what's causing it?- Aging population?
- Reliance on available automation / level of detachment in modern cars?
- Reduced standard of driver training?
- Number of people who learned to drive outside the UK?
- All / none of the above?
Genuine question, with no offence intended towards driving instructors or people of non-UK origin. I'm genuinely interested to know.
Yes.
Though would say the real case where it gets bad is roundabouts/junctions with multiple directional lanes.
Especially when cycling through them...
The number of drivers who don't want to cope with the idea that I am signalling to move from the left lane to the lane marked for my exit in the queue for traffic lights leading onto a roundabout (and per HW code rules on overtaking they should be waiting behind), rather than crossing traffic taking 3 2 lane exits (motorway and dual carriageway) on the roundabout where drivers are trying to accelerate because the slips are short.
Though would say the real case where it gets bad is roundabouts/junctions with multiple directional lanes.
Especially when cycling through them...
The number of drivers who don't want to cope with the idea that I am signalling to move from the left lane to the lane marked for my exit in the queue for traffic lights leading onto a roundabout (and per HW code rules on overtaking they should be waiting behind), rather than crossing traffic taking 3 2 lane exits (motorway and dual carriageway) on the roundabout where drivers are trying to accelerate because the slips are short.
croyde said:
The title is a very good point.
Over the past 3 years I've done a lot of driving across Spain and around Tenerife and I've marveled at their lane discipline.
On my last trip the usual 2 lane Autopista went to 3 lanes and the lane discipline went to pot.
I've never driving in Europe, do you find that their lane 1 have that tramline affect, like you get in lane 1 of the motorways over here?Over the past 3 years I've done a lot of driving across Spain and around Tenerife and I've marveled at their lane discipline.
On my last trip the usual 2 lane Autopista went to 3 lanes and the lane discipline went to pot.
There are some areas of the M25, where the tramline affect is so bad, i would just sit in lane 2 until I've passed it.
Having to constantly correct the steering, because of the dips in a proper arse ache.
al78 said:
I reckon it is down to situational awareness in the general population dropping off a cliff over the last decade or so. The sheer gormlessness of some people out and about is ridiculous sometimes, especially in SE England.
This. Whenever I pass them (outside or inside) I always look and they are focused solely on 20m infront of their own car. Zero attention paid to the other lanes
Turbobanana said:
Undoubtedly true. But what's causing it?
- Aging population?
- Reliance on available automation / level of detachment in modern cars?
- Reduced standard of driver training?
- Number of people who learned to drive outside the UK?
- All / none of the above?
Genuine question, with no offence intended towards driving instructors or people of non-UK origin. I'm genuinely interested to know.
None of the above. Driving is no longer a privilege, it has become a perceived right.- Aging population?
- Reliance on available automation / level of detachment in modern cars?
- Reduced standard of driver training?
- Number of people who learned to drive outside the UK?
- All / none of the above?
Genuine question, with no offence intended towards driving instructors or people of non-UK origin. I'm genuinely interested to know.
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