Why do the Dutch do cycling so much better than the UK
Discussion
Apart from.the fact that it's very flat.
Spending the week with work in Eindhoven. At Daf. On the big factory campus they have "pool bikes"
There are more bikes parked next to the buildings than cars.
The hotel I'm staying in have a room rate which includes breakfast and a bike. Which I have used to get to the meeting room I'm in at Daf. Outside the station I've never seen so many bikes. Every road has a decent cycle path. Every cyclist stops at Red lights and Every car seems to be very aware when they turn into a side road that there might be a bike coming.
Thinking about it Derby had a lot of money spent and there was alot of people prepared to comute using bikes.
Is there anywhere else that actually might be nice to cycle in. A town or city where you'd be happy in rush hour commuting in convoy with your 2 primary kids on there own bikes (I saw this a few times today)
My own town (Formby L37) is terrible. Loads of mad angry motorists and very few cyclists. And yet I coukd get to Liverpool and Southport without using many roads.
Spending the week with work in Eindhoven. At Daf. On the big factory campus they have "pool bikes"
There are more bikes parked next to the buildings than cars.
The hotel I'm staying in have a room rate which includes breakfast and a bike. Which I have used to get to the meeting room I'm in at Daf. Outside the station I've never seen so many bikes. Every road has a decent cycle path. Every cyclist stops at Red lights and Every car seems to be very aware when they turn into a side road that there might be a bike coming.
Thinking about it Derby had a lot of money spent and there was alot of people prepared to comute using bikes.
Is there anywhere else that actually might be nice to cycle in. A town or city where you'd be happy in rush hour commuting in convoy with your 2 primary kids on there own bikes (I saw this a few times today)
My own town (Formby L37) is terrible. Loads of mad angry motorists and very few cyclists. And yet I coukd get to Liverpool and Southport without using many roads.
It was policy, and it worked:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/maga...
Much (not all) of the densely populated parts of the UK is very flat too.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/maga...
Much (not all) of the densely populated parts of the UK is very flat too.
No. The vitriol towards cyclists runs deep in this country. It's not just on social media. Look at the penalties dealt out to cyclists who injure someone and then compare the sentences to similar injuries caused to someone by a car driver.
I cycle everyday but it's a very hostile environment cycling on busy town streets and it's literally a matter of time before I'm knocked off, I guarantee it.
I'm sure it helps that a good cyclist could cross the Netherlands top to bottom in 10 hours and across it in 8. It's a tiny country in reality.
I cycle everyday but it's a very hostile environment cycling on busy town streets and it's literally a matter of time before I'm knocked off, I guarantee it.
I'm sure it helps that a good cyclist could cross the Netherlands top to bottom in 10 hours and across it in 8. It's a tiny country in reality.
British cities were never rebuilt with the wide boulevards so common on the continent. Even when London burned to the ground it was rebuilt exactly as before, with narrow little streets, despite a grand plan.
Steep and narrow roads do not make for a happy co-existence of cars and bicycles.
Steep and narrow roads do not make for a happy co-existence of cars and bicycles.
Pit Pony said:
Is there anywhere else that actually might be nice to cycle in. A town or city where you'd be happy in rush hour commuting in convoy with your 2 primary kids on there own bikes (I saw this a few times today)
My own town (Formby L37) is terrible. Loads of mad angry motorists and very few cyclists. And yet I coukd get to Liverpool and Southport without using many roads.
Cambridge and York have a lot of people cycling around them.My own town (Formby L37) is terrible. Loads of mad angry motorists and very few cyclists. And yet I coukd get to Liverpool and Southport without using many roads.
Manchester has some good cycling infrastructure nowadays (and is mostly flat other than in the area to the north towards Bury and Oldham) It feels much safer than it once did to cycle in the city.
It’s a cultural thing, the bicycle has been part of their social fabric since forever, plus the Dutch are way more laid back than the British, I rarely bike in the UK but when I do it’s around the New Forest, the attitude shown towards cyclists is appalling I have biked in many countries all over the world and without doubt the UK is one of the worst places to ride, I never feel safe on the roads.
grumbledoak said:
British cities were never rebuilt with the wide boulevards so common on the continent. Even when London burned to the ground it was rebuilt exactly as before, with narrow little streets, despite a grand plan.
Steep and narrow roads do not make for a happy co-existence of cars and bicycles.
Having just got back from riding (on a motorbike) some of the rural roads around Zwolle, it's not much to do with the width of the roads. Even a narrow country road will have a cycle path marked on both sides of the road, leaving just a single car width bit for cars. Steep and narrow roads do not make for a happy co-existence of cars and bicycles.
If you tried to do that in the UK every driver would be up in arms about their rights and how woke cyclists are killing the country
mcelliott said:
It s a cultural thing, the bicycle has been part of their social fabric since forever
Partially true, but their government reversed the shift towards prioritising cars.https://www.uu.nl/en/masters/9-things-know-about-d...
The Dutch are not particularly laid back either. They are more abrupt and direct with each other that the British.
Denmark did similar:
https://denmark.dk/people-and-culture/biking
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 25th June 06:08
boyse7en said:
Having just got back from riding (on a motorbike) some of the rural roads around Zwolle, it's not much to do with the width of the roads. Even a narrow country road will have a cycle path marked on both sides of the road, leaving just a single car width bit for cars.
If you tried to do that in the UK every driver would be up in arms about their rights and how woke cyclists are killing the country
Very trueIf you tried to do that in the UK every driver would be up in arms about their rights and how woke cyclists are killing the country
MC Bodge said:
Partially true, but their government reversed the shift towards prioritising cars.
Denmark did similar:
https://denmark.dk/people-and-culture/biking
Copenhagen is a wonderful place to cycle around. Denmark did similar:
https://denmark.dk/people-and-culture/biking
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 25th June 06:08
I work in and around all sorts of European cities and really enjoy it, generally commuting on a folding bike. Having worked recently in London I have to say the infrastructure for cycling has been massively improved.
Just back from a long weekend spent in Haarlem and we had cycles for the whole time to get around - it was utter bliss. We were even able to cycle out through the dunes to Zaandvort to see some of the DTM which was on and it was an absolute breeze to do so. Fantastic, but really quite eye opening and makes me question why the UK is just such a terrible environment for cyclists.
When done right, it effectively offers you free local travel, which keeps you fit and creates zero emissions - it's a win/win/win across the board, when the infrastructure and mentality allows.
When done right, it effectively offers you free local travel, which keeps you fit and creates zero emissions - it's a win/win/win across the board, when the infrastructure and mentality allows.
Edited by MattyD803 on Wednesday 25th June 07:57
They used to say that an English(person's) home is their castle. Now so many people can't afford their own homes, I think it's the car that has become the castle.
Having said that, a substantial cycling revolution has happened in parts of the UK already. I have been cycling round London for over 25yrs, and at commuting time there are now ca 20x as many people on bike as there were back in the early noughties.
A similar if less dramatic change can be observed in other cities, Manchester for one.
Cycling really is not as risky as some posters have suggested. You are more at risk of injury than as a driver, but cycling has long term benefits for physical and mental health and general wellbeing that largely outweigh the proximate risks.
If more people cycled to work more often, the world would be a calmer and happier place.
Having said that, a substantial cycling revolution has happened in parts of the UK already. I have been cycling round London for over 25yrs, and at commuting time there are now ca 20x as many people on bike as there were back in the early noughties.
A similar if less dramatic change can be observed in other cities, Manchester for one.
Cycling really is not as risky as some posters have suggested. You are more at risk of injury than as a driver, but cycling has long term benefits for physical and mental health and general wellbeing that largely outweigh the proximate risks.
If more people cycled to work more often, the world would be a calmer and happier place.
it looks to me like the single biggest difference in attitudes is that the Dutch started their 'bike first' obsession about 40 years before the Brits. Which gives a couple of advantages 1) fewer people had cars per head of population in the 70's, 2) 50 years of road design and improvements with the bike in mind,3) a whole generation of people who know no different.
I'd suggest we need to wait another 35 years, but that'd depend on there being a long term transport strategy that puts the bicycle first, which I suspect would be difficult to achieve.
I'd suggest we need to wait another 35 years, but that'd depend on there being a long term transport strategy that puts the bicycle first, which I suspect would be difficult to achieve.
Having just returned from Belgium, it's not just the Netherlands that do it so well. Rode in both Belgium and France and the attitude towards cyclists is just 'better'.
The infrastructure in place is significant, but it's well thought out so as a cyclist you're more likely to use it, meaning you are not in conflict with drivers. I think it also helps that it's much less densely populated, so on the roads without infrastructure people are happy to hang back, and then pass when they can, as they know it won't be long until the opportunity is available, whereas in the UK people will squeeze past as the first hint of an opportunity.
I can't wait to ride on the continent again. I absolutely loved it.
The infrastructure in place is significant, but it's well thought out so as a cyclist you're more likely to use it, meaning you are not in conflict with drivers. I think it also helps that it's much less densely populated, so on the roads without infrastructure people are happy to hang back, and then pass when they can, as they know it won't be long until the opportunity is available, whereas in the UK people will squeeze past as the first hint of an opportunity.
I can't wait to ride on the continent again. I absolutely loved it.
I have ridden and raced in France for about 30yrs, only had 2 incidents that I can remember, other than that a fabulous place to ride which goes completely against the grain of your average French car driver, racing also was an utter joy, completely closed roads and the whole village making a day of it
horsemeatscandal said:
I was pleasantly surprised by the positive attitude towards cyclist on the Isle of Man compared to the UK. Even Scotland is a bit better than England, at least outside of urban areas.
Appears someone on the IoM doesn't like cyclists.https://road.cc/content/news/petition-demands-cycl...
For me;
Weather is one part, nothing worse than being soaking wet when you get to work or back home.
The logistics of getting your kids to school when there are no school buses on the route and then getting yourself to work on time make it difficult. We simply don't have the infrastructure in many parts of the UK.
Then it's the additional travel time, shower time. Many people just don't have the time to spare.
Most people don't work locally anymore, traveling 10, 15, 20+ mile to get to work and back.
Weather is one part, nothing worse than being soaking wet when you get to work or back home.
The logistics of getting your kids to school when there are no school buses on the route and then getting yourself to work on time make it difficult. We simply don't have the infrastructure in many parts of the UK.
Then it's the additional travel time, shower time. Many people just don't have the time to spare.
Most people don't work locally anymore, traveling 10, 15, 20+ mile to get to work and back.
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff