Untaxed vehicle fine...

Author
Discussion

ToMeToYou

Original Poster:

529 posts

205 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
So i am a car dealer from home. Just a sideline where I buy 5 or 6 vehicles a year to sell on.

I bought a vehicle with no log book from an insurance company. To sell this vehicle on, I need the logbook, so I applied in my name and it came. The vehicle was then sold on but, I was away travelling for a month so my other half gave the buyer all the documents (didn't fill out the v5, he was a trader).

Now I'm getting fines through the door for it being untaxed (it wasn't declared sorn). I dont have possession of this vehicle anymore but, of course, it's still in my name.

So I've since appealed the fine with gov/dvla.

Here's the main question I have.

Online, it says if you're a motor trader and the vehicle stays on your business premises, you don't need to sorn it or tax it within the first 3 months. It says AS Long as you don't put the vehicle in your name.

Well, I had no choice but to put it in my name as I didn't have the v5 to resell it on and so had to apply for the v5 and the v5 needed to be in my name.

Does anyone have any knowledge on this?

Nickp82

3,578 posts

107 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Did you pass it to trade once the V5 arrived?

paul_c123

742 posts

7 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
If you had to apply for a new V5 (eg using a V62 form) and it arrives in your name, you should have SORN'd it immediately (I think there's an option to declare SORN from the outset, when you apply using the V62 form).

When you sold it to another trader, you should have put it "into trade" at that point. Yes YOU, not the other trader - it is the registered keeper's responsibility. You can do this online with the V5 11 digit reference number.

When you passed it onto the other trader, I don't suppose you prepared an invoice/receipt either.....

ETA there's also the option of putting it "into trade" as soon as the V5 in your name arrives. It then means you don't need to SORN it, and another quirk of the system is you can't drive a car registered in your name on trade plates, so if you wanted to do this, in theory, that's the route. But if you wanted to use it eg keep it back for personal use etc, and you needed to tax it, you'd need to register it back into your name as RK (further increased the number of previous keepers).

"Don't buy anything without a V5" is a good rule to have. And if you do, understand the things which need to be done and make a price adjustment for the extra RK and V62 application (£25).

Edited by paul_c123 on Tuesday 24th June 23:26

Jurassic pork

246 posts

186 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
Your first mistake was applying for a logbook in your name.

A genuine dealer would wait until a sale was agreed and then fill out a V62 for the new keeper.

A trade buyer would either avoid the car or accept that you are trading and fill out a V62 when they sold the vehicle.

Do you have a trade insurance policy and trade plates or, is this just an undeclared side hustle?

You'll learn from your mistakes but if you don't have the details of the person that you sold it to, you're going to have to suck up the fine.

ToMeToYou

Original Poster:

529 posts

205 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
I do have trade insurance, but I don't have trade plates yet. I buy damaged vehicles, so they don't normally come with a v5 and so, there is no option to wait for a v62 as the insurance company /auction house do not tell dvla I'm the new owner.

So my ONLY option is to put it in my name as selling a vehicle on with no v5 is virtually impossible.

paul_c123

742 posts

7 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
If you registered it in your name and forgot to SORN it, you might also be caught out by the continuous insurance requirement.

Jurassic pork

246 posts

186 months

Yesterday (11:08)
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If you're openly selling as a dealer/trader and not trying to hide behind the guise of a private seller then you shouldn't be registering them to yourself to get hold of a V5.

Having been in the retail game for over 25 years and also selling to the trade, I've never come across a buyer that wouldn't buy because a V5 wasn't present.


ToMeToYou

Original Poster:

529 posts

205 months

Yesterday (12:19)
quotequote all
Jurassic pork said:
If you're openly selling as a dealer/trader and not trying to hide behind the guise of a private seller then you shouldn't be registering them to yourself to get hold of a V5.

Having been in the retail game for over 25 years and also selling to the trade, I've never come across a buyer that wouldn't buy because a V5 wasn't present.
That is strange. Buyers often ask if i have the v5 in hand. Once I didn't and they said they wasn't interested to buy due to this.

I assume you worked for a big named company and therefore had more trust. But then, still, how was you able to issue a v5 to a new customer? Or did you just pay the £25 to dvla?

Ussrcossack

776 posts

56 months

Yesterday (13:18)
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paul_c123 said:
If you registered it in your name and forgot to SORN it, you might also be caught out by the continuous insurance requirement.
Probably not as Trade Insurance covers all the traders vehicles just need to inform insurance company and vehicle gets placed on policy

98elise

29,657 posts

175 months

Yesterday (13:48)
quotequote all
ToMeToYou said:
Jurassic pork said:
If you're openly selling as a dealer/trader and not trying to hide behind the guise of a private seller then you shouldn't be registering them to yourself to get hold of a V5.

Having been in the retail game for over 25 years and also selling to the trade, I've never come across a buyer that wouldn't buy because a V5 wasn't present.
That is strange. Buyers often ask if i have the v5 in hand. Once I didn't and they said they wasn't interested to buy due to this.

I assume you worked for a big named company and therefore had more trust. But then, still, how was you able to issue a v5 to a new customer? Or did you just pay the £25 to dvla?
I would agree. No V5 would trigger alarm bells if it wasn't a reasonably big dealer.

I've only bought a can once without a V5 (private) and was suspicious until the new one arrived. I only went ahead as it was a bargain, and the seller was local.

paul_c123

742 posts

7 months

Yesterday (15:03)
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ToMeToYou said:
That is strange. Buyers often ask if i have the v5 in hand. Once I didn't and they said they wasn't interested to buy due to this.

I assume you worked for a big named company and therefore had more trust. But then, still, how was you able to issue a v5 to a new customer? Or did you just pay the £25 to dvla?
Me too, I'd never try to sell a car without the V5 and I'd make it my job to sort it out. Even if that means putting it into my name (currently have 2/5 in my name).

Its interesting that you say the big named company would have more trust. I've found that the bigger names in secondhand car trading are just as bad(/good) as smaller ones, even up to the biggest Franchise dealers. Obviously there are good and bad out there - just as there are good and bad small traders.

The process is to either tell them to fill in the V62, or do it with/for them. If they want to tax it at the same time, they'd need to take the V62 to a Post Office branch (who might/might not be able to sort out the tax - you might still have to wait for the V5).