RE: Rumours swirl regarding GR Corolla UK launch
Friday 20th June
Rumours swirl regarding GR Corolla UK launch
Will they or won't they? Probably they will. But maybe not...
News that Toyota intends to build the GR Corolla in the UK was greeted with enthusiasm by PHers when we revealed it last month - predictable enough, for a forum audience that had repeatedly chided the firm for not bringing the more family-friendly model to Europe in the first place. Of course, Toyota knows all about this nation’s enthusiasm for performance cars in general and hot hatches specifically, but the size of the potential audience - and high demand for the GR in larger markets - has always clouded the case for introducing the car in the Old World.
Counter to some internet speculation, the arrival of the production line in Burnaston plant does not mean anything automatically changes - global carmakers are no strangers to building cars in countries that have no domestic market to serve, and presumably the reduction in US tariffs played some part in the decision, alongside the fact that TMUK already builds the Euro-spec Corollas. Nevertheless, with the departure of the Honda Civic Type R and Ford Focus ST both confirmed, the size of the opportunity for a UK-built GR appears to be widening by the month.
Adding fuel to the fire are remarks made by Toyota’s European COO, Matt Harrison: “We have a philosophy that you build where you sell, so to build in Europe and not sell in Europe would be counter to that,” he told Auto Express this week. “The gap between supply and demand is now, so it’s about how quickly we can get it. We need to act fast.”
The idea of needing to promptly make space for a UK (or European) allocation of cars is, as ever, crucial to elbowing some space in Toyota’s global plan - especially when it involves a model that is already said to be heavily oversubscribed. The firm has struggled to keep up with demand for several recent variants, most notably the new Land Cruiser, which dramatically exceeded the level of interest shown to previous generations. The less said about the initial supply of the GR86, the better.
Helpfully, the GR Corolla isn’t nearly as bespoke as the Yaris, although it too requires processes beyond standard manufacturing; preparations for its arrival at Burnaston are said to have started last year, and no example is destined to leave the production line till next year. There have been internal rumblings that this date will coincide with an announcement of a planned market expansion, but for now we must content ourselves with whatever crumbs of comfort Toyota is prepared to drop.
At any rate, no UK-spec model would be cheap, nor plentiful. The GR Yaris - currently unavailable to order - starts at around £45k, meaning the larger Corolla would comfortably exceed £50k, precisely the amount that hindered the outgoing Civic Type R. By next year, the car would also need to rival the just revealed Golf GTI Edition 50 - a version that already exceeds its current output and arrives with a ‘ring time worth boasting about’. Probably pictures of the GR Corolla testing on the Nordschleife are just a coincidence. Or possibly not. As ever, until told otherwise, we live in hope.
Discussion
Not entirely convinced about that engine / car combo either, the engine is really bespoke to the GR Yaris, and might be a bit underwhelming in the Corolla. The Corolla has a decent chassis and needed something more powerful than the hybrid options. I guess Toyota want to be different and also to make a bit of cash from what was a new engine built from scratch for the Yaris. It needs a bit more than 300bhp to be competitive in Europe and that is (probably) right at the limit for the 3 pot. Plus there is the potential price - where there are more interesting options.
Edited by Yahonza on Friday 20th June 19:33
Cjr32blue said:
We should be applauding this. The idea of a new hot hatch these days is to be celebrated. At least it's not another dull SUV or EV. And Toyota, if you're listening a decent hatch spoiler would go nicely on this.
I’m as big a hot hatch fan as you’ll find anywhere but need a reality check here and take the rose tinted classes off. Your saying EVs are dull yet the £60k this will cost will get you a Tesla Model 3 Performance with 460hp, 0-60 in 2.9sec, 163mph to speed, will be faster on track, cheaper to run and way easier to live with.
Add in what you’d save on fuel over 4+ years and you could almost make a case the Hyundai Ioniq 5N will be the same cost to own as this. You know the boring 650hp EV SUV that goes like stink and has 7min 45 sec Nurburgring time.
As I put on the other thread on this topic:
Does that mean taking the Yaris off sale to make selling these less punitive?
It is worth noting that Toyota sell a lot of Prius, Yaris and Corolla hybrids; they have more ability to offset these things than many manufacturers. Ironically, the Prius in particular has ended up providing a lifeline for performance cars in Toyota's lineup this way.
Does that mean taking the Yaris off sale to make selling these less punitive?
It is worth noting that Toyota sell a lot of Prius, Yaris and Corolla hybrids; they have more ability to offset these things than many manufacturers. Ironically, the Prius in particular has ended up providing a lifeline for performance cars in Toyota's lineup this way.
CG2020UK said:
Cjr32blue said:
We should be applauding this. The idea of a new hot hatch these days is to be celebrated. At least it's not another dull SUV or EV. And Toyota, if you're listening a decent hatch spoiler would go nicely on this.
I m as big a hot hatch fan as you ll find anywhere but need a reality check here and take the rose tinted classes off. Your saying EVs are dull yet the £60k this will cost will get you a Tesla Model 3 Performance with 460hp, 0-60 in 2.9sec, 163mph to speed, will be faster on track, cheaper to run and way easier to live with.
Add in what you d save on fuel over 4+ years and you could almost make a case the Hyundai Ioniq 5N will be the same cost to own as this. You know the boring 650hp EV SUV that goes like stink and has 7min 45 sec Nurburgring time.
Nothing against EVs at all… as usual they get dragged into threads like this about a hot hatches, a proper one!!!
CG2020UK said:
Cjr32blue said:
We should be applauding this. The idea of a new hot hatch these days is to be celebrated. At least it's not another dull SUV or EV. And Toyota, if you're listening a decent hatch spoiler would go nicely on this.
I m as big a hot hatch fan as you ll find anywhere but need a reality check here and take the rose tinted classes off. Your saying EVs are dull yet the £60k this will cost will get you a Tesla Model 3 Performance with 460hp, 0-60 in 2.9sec, 163mph to speed, will be faster on track, cheaper to run and way easier to live with.
Add in what you d save on fuel over 4+ years and you could almost make a case the Hyundai Ioniq 5N will be the same cost to own as this. You know the boring 650hp EV SUV that goes like stink and has 7min 45 sec Nurburgring time.
I used to work at Burnaston, and loved it…
Anyway, nice to see the high levels of interest in what is now an ageing base model.
I’m sure it’ll be massively different to the cars the Uber drivers and the Burnaston staff role round in but will this, if launched in the U.K., be another rare curiosity like the i30N?
Anyway, nice to see the high levels of interest in what is now an ageing base model.
I’m sure it’ll be massively different to the cars the Uber drivers and the Burnaston staff role round in but will this, if launched in the U.K., be another rare curiosity like the i30N?
CG2020UK said:
Cjr32blue said:
We should be applauding this. The idea of a new hot hatch these days is to be celebrated. At least it's not another dull SUV or EV. And Toyota, if you're listening a decent hatch spoiler would go nicely on this.
I m as big a hot hatch fan as you ll find anywhere but need a reality check here and take the rose tinted classes off. Your saying EVs are dull yet the £60k this will cost will get you a Tesla Model 3 Performance with 460hp, 0-60 in 2.9sec, 163mph to speed, will be faster on track, cheaper to run and way easier to live with.
Add in what you d save on fuel over 4+ years and you could almost make a case the Hyundai Ioniq 5N will be the same cost to own as this. You know the boring 650hp EV SUV that goes like stink and has 7min 45 sec Nurburgring time.
I think these cars are a bit of nostalgia purchase, but I'm not sure in the UK that a Hot Corolla can compete with the Golf 50th Gti (although I'm sure it will find buyers). This does look good (vs the Golfs understated vibe), but in the UK at least with high fuel costs - its quite extravagant for younger buyers. In the US with lower purchase costs, cheap fuel I can see it working - but here it nuts up against different value propositions. The 5N, hyper hatches and M2 - its going to be a monthlies issue OR those who can afford to run an expensive hot hatch.
Whilst EVs have appeal, I don't think you can compare. The performance is purely coincidental. Tesla in particular has an Uber image, hence kills it as a comparison. I can't see anyone looking at a bloated arch Corolla Vs a fast taxi and thinking its a competitor. The 5N is the exception right now (Alpine seemly chickening out). That (5N) is a serious piece of kit (albeit somewhat SUV sized).
Edited by OoopsVoss on Friday 20th June 20:39
HighwayStar said:
It s not all about speed and stats otherwise me and others would be in Teslas and binned off our sports cars and hot hatches long before now! Just saying.
Nothing against EVs at all as usual they get dragged into threads like this about a hot hatches, a proper one!!!
It’s certainly not but we can be honest here and say it’s a significant driver for any car enthusiast. Especially at the examples I give where you’re talking about near 350hp spread. Nothing against EVs at all as usual they get dragged into threads like this about a hot hatches, a proper one!!!
There is a reason that sports cars and hot hatches is a declining market. If they don’t offer performance what is the actually the point of these cars now and their compromises?
Tesla certainly won its fair bit of market share of those silly YouTube drag race videos.
Justin-ow582 said:
Two words: Driver engagement.
We really think this is going to offer better driver engagement than the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N? OoopsVoss said:
I think you make an interesting point. EVs are dull to people who lived through the years of ICE powered Hot Hatches and Rally Reps, but its a dwindling buyer pool. Many of those people who had those cars have either moved on in the performance stakes or require (through consequence) different modes of transport. Commercially this probably has relatively narrow appeal - so its no surprise manufacturers can umm and ahh about launching it here.
I think these cars are a bit of nostalgia purchase, but I'm not sure in the UK that a Hot Corolla can compete with the Golf 50th Gti (although I'm sure it will find buyers). This does look good (vs the Golfs understated vibe), but in the UK at least with high fuel costs - its quite extravagant for younger buyers. In the US with lower purchase costs, cheap fuel I can see it working - but here it nuts up against different value propositions. The 5N, hyper hatches and M2 - its going to be a monthlies issue OR those who can afford to run an expensive hot hatch.
Whilst EVs have appeal, I don't think you can compare. The performance is purely coincidental. Tesla in particular has an Uber image, hence kills it as a comparison. I can't see anyone looking at a bloated arch Corolla Vs a fast taxi and thinking it’s a competitor. The 5N is the exception right now (Alpine seemly chickening out). That (5N) is a serious piece of kit (albeit somewhat SUV sized).
I’m very much I’m the nostalgia camp but the game has moved on massively. I think these cars are a bit of nostalgia purchase, but I'm not sure in the UK that a Hot Corolla can compete with the Golf 50th Gti (although I'm sure it will find buyers). This does look good (vs the Golfs understated vibe), but in the UK at least with high fuel costs - its quite extravagant for younger buyers. In the US with lower purchase costs, cheap fuel I can see it working - but here it nuts up against different value propositions. The 5N, hyper hatches and M2 - its going to be a monthlies issue OR those who can afford to run an expensive hot hatch.
Whilst EVs have appeal, I don't think you can compare. The performance is purely coincidental. Tesla in particular has an Uber image, hence kills it as a comparison. I can't see anyone looking at a bloated arch Corolla Vs a fast taxi and thinking it’s a competitor. The 5N is the exception right now (Alpine seemly chickening out). That (5N) is a serious piece of kit (albeit somewhat SUV sized).
Edited by OoopsVoss on Friday 20th June 20:39
Like who is the actual target market for this?
I love the 50th GTI it’s got a historic badge, serious track performance and the Golf practicality which unfortunately this is missing.
Tesla is a funny one on image as it’s so new however I think it’s maybe fair to say you can’t mention taxi/uber without thinking Toyota. Telling your mates you spent near £50k on a Corolla certainly isn’t going to have them thinking performance or exciting.
Justin-ow582 said:
CG2020UK said:
Cjr32blue said:
We should be applauding this. The idea of a new hot hatch these days is to be celebrated. At least it's not another dull SUV or EV. And Toyota, if you're listening a decent hatch spoiler would go nicely on this.
I m as big a hot hatch fan as you ll find anywhere but need a reality check here and take the rose tinted classes off. Your saying EVs are dull yet the £60k this will cost will get you a Tesla Model 3 Performance with 460hp, 0-60 in 2.9sec, 163mph to speed, will be faster on track, cheaper to run and way easier to live with.
Add in what you d save on fuel over 4+ years and you could almost make a case the Hyundai Ioniq 5N will be the same cost to own as this. You know the boring 650hp EV SUV that goes like stink and has 7min 45 sec Nurburgring time.
TX.
I mean this is an easy one for me, EVs have their place if we're not forced to own them. They do many things better than ice particularly the day to day stuff, if you have somewhere cheap to charge them. They should definitely replace most white goods cars. However, they will never do driver engagement better than a lighter ice car. The Ioniq 5N weighs 2.3 tons, 20 years ago a land rover would have been laughed at for that weight, it is NOT a hot hatch. We all need to accept that the world has changed and that the vast majority of people who don't care for cars will be better served by an EV, the rest of us should be allowed a choice that we are probably already paying more for. Back to the Toyota, all cars are expensive now, Toyota GB, thanks for even considering bringing it here.
Terminator X said:
Also that ring time is slower than a 6 year old ICE hatchback with less than half the power.
TX.
Debatable relevance…..Still going to be faster than this TX.
Especially when the RS Megane would be £77k in today’s money with no rear seats
remember defending it on this very forum as everyone slagged it off for not being a hot hatch! 
CG2020UK said:
HighwayStar said:
It s not all about speed and stats otherwise me and others would be in Teslas and binned off our sports cars and hot hatches long before now! Just saying.
Nothing against EVs at all as usual they get dragged into threads like this about a hot hatches, a proper one!!!
It s certainly not but we can be honest here and say it s a significant driver for any car enthusiast. Especially at the examples I give where you re talking about near 350hp spread. Nothing against EVs at all as usual they get dragged into threads like this about a hot hatches, a proper one!!!
There is a reason that sports cars and hot hatches is a declining market. If they don t offer performance what is the actually the point of these cars now and their compromises?
Tesla certainly won its fair bit of market share of those silly YouTube drag race videos.
Justin-ow582 said:
Two words: Driver engagement.
We really think this is going to offer better driver engagement than the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N? Me, I prefer NA… ultimate top speed and warp speed acceleration, though impressive, is of any real interest to me. when I had a 981 Cayman S, what I felt I didn’t need anymore power or speed, it was the right size and offered all the performance I need to enjoy the car on more interesting roads. The GT4 I have now, for me, is perfect.
Some big Tesla M3P, big, fast but soulless is really not where it’s at for me. It’s not how I want my performance.
I can see my daily being EV but it would be purely an efficient appliance, the performance orientated stuff doesn’t interest me. I’m not saying they are rubbish, shouldn’t exist or are being forced on us, blah blah. They just don’t give me what I want.
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