House hunting "fixer upper" help
Discussion
Hi guys, we've just started our house hunting journey in Bristol (currently renting on a rolling monthly contract now, but have a small 3-bed semi in a different city that's going on the market end of June). This means when the 3-bed sells *hopefully quickly* we'll be chain free and in a strong position.
I know how great this sub-forum is for stuff like this so I'd like to use this thread as a bit of a running update...
We like the idea of an old, dated, "fixer upper"... maybe getting something £60k-100k below budget, and use the leftover to spend on an extension/open plan kitchen/diner renovation type of job.
There's a place we're viewing this Friday in a good area. It's a semi on a corner plot so has a nice sized (and overgrown) wrap around garden. It really does need a full renovation and has been owned by the same first time owner since the 60s... In my head it meets what I'm looking for on paper and I'm theoretically plucking £80k out of the air to set aside for an extension and renovation downstairs, including a bit of landscaping patio work. I don't really have much of an idea what something like this would cost because I've never been through this before, but researching on Google it says anywhere between £40-100k for a rear kitchen/diner extension and renovation.
This is what we're going to be looking at later this week. My partner is a bit dubious, so I'd love to turn up with at least an idea in my head.
How would you extend and remodel? I would want to add an Office/Snug.
Thanks all, it would be highly appreciated!
I know how great this sub-forum is for stuff like this so I'd like to use this thread as a bit of a running update...
We like the idea of an old, dated, "fixer upper"... maybe getting something £60k-100k below budget, and use the leftover to spend on an extension/open plan kitchen/diner renovation type of job.
There's a place we're viewing this Friday in a good area. It's a semi on a corner plot so has a nice sized (and overgrown) wrap around garden. It really does need a full renovation and has been owned by the same first time owner since the 60s... In my head it meets what I'm looking for on paper and I'm theoretically plucking £80k out of the air to set aside for an extension and renovation downstairs, including a bit of landscaping patio work. I don't really have much of an idea what something like this would cost because I've never been through this before, but researching on Google it says anywhere between £40-100k for a rear kitchen/diner extension and renovation.
This is what we're going to be looking at later this week. My partner is a bit dubious, so I'd love to turn up with at least an idea in my head.
How would you extend and remodel? I would want to add an Office/Snug.
Thanks all, it would be highly appreciated!
Edited by Prohibiting on Tuesday 17th June 12:09
All I ll say is, factor in asbestos.
Friable asbestos can make a budgeted renovation suddenly much more expensive.
The chap who came to mine said IF all my soffits were AIB and needed to be off, it’d be £10-£15k.
Definitely worth getting someone to advise on that element before assuming you can just dig into it at ‘normal’ cost.
Also ground works and steels etc don t seem to be cheap these days if you’re extending out a lot.
I assume you re going to rent while you renovate a project, and not living in it?
Friable asbestos can make a budgeted renovation suddenly much more expensive.
The chap who came to mine said IF all my soffits were AIB and needed to be off, it’d be £10-£15k.
Definitely worth getting someone to advise on that element before assuming you can just dig into it at ‘normal’ cost.
Also ground works and steels etc don t seem to be cheap these days if you’re extending out a lot.
I assume you re going to rent while you renovate a project, and not living in it?
Mr Whippy said:
All I ll say is, factor in asbestos.
Friable asbestos can make a budgeted renovation suddenly much more expensive.
The chap who came to mine said IF all my soffits were AIB and needed to be off, it d be £10-£15k.
Definitely worth getting someone to advise on that element before assuming you can just dig into it at normal cost.
Also ground works and steels etc don t seem to be cheap these days if you re extending out a lot.
I assume you re going to rent while you renovate a project, and not living in it?
Only viewing for now but would love an idea of what could be achieved so I can go in with eyes wide open.Friable asbestos can make a budgeted renovation suddenly much more expensive.
The chap who came to mine said IF all my soffits were AIB and needed to be off, it d be £10-£15k.
Definitely worth getting someone to advise on that element before assuming you can just dig into it at normal cost.
Also ground works and steels etc don t seem to be cheap these days if you re extending out a lot.
I assume you re going to rent while you renovate a project, and not living in it?
No, it would be a live in situation whatever we decide because I don't want to keep paying rent!
Possibility of extending will depend a lot on the arrangement at the rear of the house i.e. adjoining houses, size of garden. Also consider access for excavators, delivery of materials, muck away etc.
I used to live in South Bristol, and my first property was a complete renovation but minus a new kitchen or extension (floor boards up, ceilings ripped out, full re-plaster, redecorate every room). I was easily into £25k, doing most of the legwork myself (but not the plastering!).
An extension could be £3-4k per square metre. I self installed the kitchen in my current place and still managed to spend about £1.5k per square meter, and that's without any structural work aside from a single wall knock-through and steel beam.
I used to live in South Bristol, and my first property was a complete renovation but minus a new kitchen or extension (floor boards up, ceilings ripped out, full re-plaster, redecorate every room). I was easily into £25k, doing most of the legwork myself (but not the plastering!).
An extension could be £3-4k per square metre. I self installed the kitchen in my current place and still managed to spend about £1.5k per square meter, and that's without any structural work aside from a single wall knock-through and steel beam.
+1 on asbestos. I’ve spent a bit having some of it removed from my house when we’ve done renovations. It’s now a factor in our final room.
If you’re looking at a semi then remember party wall agreements if you’re doing anything adjoining next door.
Otherwise, I would say that even while 80k seems a good budget, all building work is expensive these days. And don’t forget VAT + other fees (planning, if required, drawings, etc).
If you’re happy to get your hands dirty then you can save a fair bit, but it’s hard work. I’m pretty handy but don’t have the time to tackle the big stuff on my own.
Good luck..!
If you’re looking at a semi then remember party wall agreements if you’re doing anything adjoining next door.
Otherwise, I would say that even while 80k seems a good budget, all building work is expensive these days. And don’t forget VAT + other fees (planning, if required, drawings, etc).
If you’re happy to get your hands dirty then you can save a fair bit, but it’s hard work. I’m pretty handy but don’t have the time to tackle the big stuff on my own.
Good luck..!
From the description given, you'll find a LOT of competition from other potential purchasers.
What's the asking price?
What's the market price after refurbishment?
What's going to be the cost of refurbishment?
Unless the property has good potential value when completed it can all be a bit like car restoration - i.e. the finished value might not be enough to pay for the refurb. Be careful not to overpay.
I think you'll have to decide at the outset whether this is a long term home or a fairly swift turnaround. It has a significant effect on the "quality" of finish you need. Basic kitchens and bathrooms can be very cheap but the question is whether they'll meet your standards.
If you're looking for a quick turnaround you want to find a property where you pay as little Stamp Duty as possible on the purchase. Repeated Stamp Duty (SDLT) can make flipping a nightmare these days, depending on value.
What's the asking price?
What's the market price after refurbishment?
What's going to be the cost of refurbishment?
Unless the property has good potential value when completed it can all be a bit like car restoration - i.e. the finished value might not be enough to pay for the refurb. Be careful not to overpay.
I think you'll have to decide at the outset whether this is a long term home or a fairly swift turnaround. It has a significant effect on the "quality" of finish you need. Basic kitchens and bathrooms can be very cheap but the question is whether they'll meet your standards.
If you're looking for a quick turnaround you want to find a property where you pay as little Stamp Duty as possible on the purchase. Repeated Stamp Duty (SDLT) can make flipping a nightmare these days, depending on value.
My first property was a fixer-upper, a Victorian terrace in Reading that had been hideously modernized in the 1980s, my fixing up involved sympathetic restoration back to how it was. Great fun and I learned a lot doing it.
The things that jumps out at me in your post is "fixer upper, Bristol". As I understand it (happy to stand corrected) from various friends who have kids at University in Bristol, there is a massive shortage of student accommodation in the city, so any such property is likely to be snapped up by a student landlord who is able to move quickly (cash funds available), knows the market, and is able to outbid the average first time buyer in a heartbeat.
If they aren't outbidding you on a property like this, I would question why?
The things that jumps out at me in your post is "fixer upper, Bristol". As I understand it (happy to stand corrected) from various friends who have kids at University in Bristol, there is a massive shortage of student accommodation in the city, so any such property is likely to be snapped up by a student landlord who is able to move quickly (cash funds available), knows the market, and is able to outbid the average first time buyer in a heartbeat.
If they aren't outbidding you on a property like this, I would question why?
So just to be clear if it helps- the asking price is the price if it was in a nice "good to go" state. It's massively overpriced right now and you'd be stupid to pay anywhere near the asking. 2 properties on the same street and layout sold 6-months ago in good condition (not needing any work) at the asking price this one is at.
So for this to make sense, you'd have to offer £60k below asking, recognising the fact that it needs a full renovation! I'm guessing that's putting a lot of people off. And my future house purchase is to keep for 10-15 years so I'm not too concerned about "must make a boat load of profit/increased value for a flip and sale".
Any ideas on a remodelled floor plan?
So for this to make sense, you'd have to offer £60k below asking, recognising the fact that it needs a full renovation! I'm guessing that's putting a lot of people off. And my future house purchase is to keep for 10-15 years so I'm not too concerned about "must make a boat load of profit/increased value for a flip and sale".
Any ideas on a remodelled floor plan?
I’ve got a renovation thread going for a full refurb of a 1930 bay window that probably isn’t a million miles off of your original footprint - look up 1930’s goodlife.
What we did was look at a mixture of past planing applications through the council and Rightmove currently on sale & historic sales listing to see what we liked and what could be done. All choices are a compromise on design or cost but we are more than happy with the design and use ability of extension. Loads of people try and only do a 3.0m extension to get around planning permission but to be honest you don’t gain that much space unless knocking though as well.
Lastly costings, pick a number and then double it. Think VAT, hidden cost, hidden problems, extra expenses to get the nicer product. Of course it does depend on how much you can do it yourself and how much of a referb you want to do
What we did was look at a mixture of past planing applications through the council and Rightmove currently on sale & historic sales listing to see what we liked and what could be done. All choices are a compromise on design or cost but we are more than happy with the design and use ability of extension. Loads of people try and only do a 3.0m extension to get around planning permission but to be honest you don’t gain that much space unless knocking though as well.
Lastly costings, pick a number and then double it. Think VAT, hidden cost, hidden problems, extra expenses to get the nicer product. Of course it does depend on how much you can do it yourself and how much of a referb you want to do
+1 on everyone and their dog wanting a 'doer upper', and many are naïve to the true cost of this.
The cost of labour is still high, even if you can get a good set of trades in.
Materials are also high - I fitted some windows 7 years ago and just got a new quote for one of the windows I did not change. It it exactly twice what I paid in 2018...
Be properly brutal with your costings - then add at least 50%.
And be prepared for numpties to offer the asking.
The cost of labour is still high, even if you can get a good set of trades in.
Materials are also high - I fitted some windows 7 years ago and just got a new quote for one of the windows I did not change. It it exactly twice what I paid in 2018...
Be properly brutal with your costings - then add at least 50%.
And be prepared for numpties to offer the asking.
Edited by POIDH on Tuesday 17th June 13:20
It’s probably more expensive than you think, and the properties tend not to be discounted to the same level. So you don’t really save money in the long run…but you do get the house YOU want.
As a guide, I’ve just about finished doing a renovation of a 2-bed flat, 800ft2. I’ve done everything except the plumbing and plastering, and I’ve spent £36,000. New kitchen was £10k, all new CH system £7k, plastering £3k. Done with mid-range quality fittings.
So depending what needs doing, you could find yourself spending £80k+ just on renovations, especially if paying trades to do it all. Might depend where you are in the country, in the SE it’s hard to get a trade out on a day rate of less than £400.
Extension costs obviously depend on how big, quality etc but your estimates are probably a bit light there as well.
As a guide, I’ve just about finished doing a renovation of a 2-bed flat, 800ft2. I’ve done everything except the plumbing and plastering, and I’ve spent £36,000. New kitchen was £10k, all new CH system £7k, plastering £3k. Done with mid-range quality fittings.
So depending what needs doing, you could find yourself spending £80k+ just on renovations, especially if paying trades to do it all. Might depend where you are in the country, in the SE it’s hard to get a trade out on a day rate of less than £400.
Extension costs obviously depend on how big, quality etc but your estimates are probably a bit light there as well.
Prohibiting said:
So just to be clear if it helps- the asking price is the price if it was in a nice "good to go" state. It's massively overpriced right now and you'd be stupid to pay anywhere near the asking. 2 properties on the same street and layout sold 6-months ago in good condition (not needing any work) at the asking price this one is at.
So for this to make sense, you'd have to offer £60k below asking, recognising the fact that it needs a full renovation! I'm guessing that's putting a lot of people off. And my future house purchase is to keep for 10-15 years so I'm not too concerned about "must make a boat load of profit/increased value for a flip and sale".
Any ideas on a remodelled floor plan?
Was going to suggest a front to rear extension along the right-hand side. I’ve managed to track it down on Rightmove, so can see there’s a garage on the front right-hand side currently, but you could put a study behind that, or behind it and to the right, depending upon the depth of the garage, accessed through the kitchen and potentially add a downstairs toilet alongside it somewhere, so you can remove the one in the kitchen and then extend the kitchen to the right-hand side to make the most of the garden and south and west aspects. So for this to make sense, you'd have to offer £60k below asking, recognising the fact that it needs a full renovation! I'm guessing that's putting a lot of people off. And my future house purchase is to keep for 10-15 years so I'm not too concerned about "must make a boat load of profit/increased value for a flip and sale".
Any ideas on a remodelled floor plan?
Am suggesting this with no thought to the cost, but that plot has loads of scope…
RoVoFob said:
Was going to suggest a front to rear extension along the right-hand side. I ve managed to track it down on Rightmove, so can see there s a garage on the front right-hand side currently, but you could put a study behind that, or behind it and to the right, depending upon the depth of the garage, accessed through the kitchen and potentially add a downstairs toilet alongside it somewhere, so you can remove the one in the kitchen and then extend the kitchen to the right-hand side to make the most of the garden and south and west aspects.
Am suggesting this with no thought to the cost, but that plot has loads of scope
Exactly why I like this place- there is a huge amount of scope given the plot size. The attached neighbours actually built a detached double garage (if you look on street view you can see it) in 1996 according to an online record I found (no docs to view though).Am suggesting this with no thought to the cost, but that plot has loads of scope
zalrak said:
It all depends on costs and quality of finish etc but a relatively low cost option could be something along the current fashion for a seating diner are with views to the garden etc:
p.s. excuse dodgy 'paint' skills. All done in a bit of a rush as busy etc...
Thank you! This is a great start to go in open minded.p.s. excuse dodgy 'paint' skills. All done in a bit of a rush as busy etc...
PS: I could max a budget of £100k for works but the purchase price would have to be right.
Prohibiting said:
Thank you! This is a great start to go in open minded.
PS: I could max a budget of £100k for works but the purchase price would have to be right.
Exactly - price is everything.PS: I could max a budget of £100k for works but the purchase price would have to be right.
I looked last year at a local to me bungalow which had not been touched since bought new in 1970's it seemed. It needed *everything* from roof and windows, through full rewire and re-plumb, kitchen, bathroom, brick garage falling down(!), old 1970s cardboard doors throughout, even the 1980's conservatory pulling down and starting again.
It went for £320k. At 'offers over £280k' it was already £40k too high in my view, as 'done up' around here have a limit of around £340/350k. I priced up £90-100k of work, that included me doing a reasonable amount too.
I know the neighbours.
A year on the new owners are horrified as they have not the resources and had basically budgeted for new kitchen and bathroom, and a new set of windows and doors, thinking they could spend £30-40k and be in a house they wanted. Instead they have some new windows, a new roof, a new heating system - but dodgy wiring, bare plaster, no insulation, old kitchen and bathroom....
Prohibiting said:
^Some people are really stupid. At least I m trying to make a sensible decision over here! 
Using the inspiration above, I ve mocked up:
Essentially a full remodel so probably pushing past £100k at this point .
This is an improvement on the current format, but you’d end up with a deeper, darker house (in the windowless internal office/snug, at least), which doesn’t take advantage of the wide, sunny plot and green garden. If it’s just more cost-effective this way that’s one thing, but unlike a terrace or semi with narrow plot, you could have a wider, brighter layout here that takes full advantage of the big plot.Using the inspiration above, I ve mocked up:
Essentially a full remodel so probably pushing past £100k at this point .
I’m in the process of buying a bungalow with a wide plot (albeit in London, so everything is much smaller - except for the prices, sadly!) and having a wider plot that enables a side extension rather than a rear one makes a much nicer layout possible. This place is pretty small, though, so adding square feet is important, which may not be the case for you and does change things, as there’s no point paying more for a larger downstairs if you don’t use all of it…
Well we viewed it. And yep- as per the photos. It needs a complete renovation and then you’d be stupid not to do an extension whilst at it! However, it really is in a great location with an incredible mature garden (small, but lovely and mature with a couple of trees). There’s even a cute little stream at the bottom rear boundary owned by Severn Water.
But 6 viewings and no offers so far. It is wildly overpriced and the sellers have likely got the wrong expectations of what it’s worth in its current state. It needs to be £80k below asking in my opinion looking at previously sold houses nearby. Which I expect they’ll laugh at. But I have emailed my evidence and justification to the agents. Let’s see…
But 6 viewings and no offers so far. It is wildly overpriced and the sellers have likely got the wrong expectations of what it’s worth in its current state. It needs to be £80k below asking in my opinion looking at previously sold houses nearby. Which I expect they’ll laugh at. But I have emailed my evidence and justification to the agents. Let’s see…
I have been buying houses totally gutting them and making them 50% plus bigger.
I am in a high priced area ( £1000 sq ft ) so there is a return on the money as size here is directly proportional to value.
It used to be the case that knackered houses had dozens of buyers. Round here this has gone away as the true cost of the work now seems widely known.
The only number that matters is the cost of the house. The issue is the sellers are deluded. Then someone possibly like the op come along and thinks had can do it up and an extension for £50k.
You just can't any more. The costs are significant. The availability of labour has been an issue but is easing a bit and the price of materials whilst off its peak in places is now very high.
Look very very carefully at the economics of what you are considering. In my view you are out on budget several times over.
I am in a high priced area ( £1000 sq ft ) so there is a return on the money as size here is directly proportional to value.
It used to be the case that knackered houses had dozens of buyers. Round here this has gone away as the true cost of the work now seems widely known.
The only number that matters is the cost of the house. The issue is the sellers are deluded. Then someone possibly like the op come along and thinks had can do it up and an extension for £50k.
You just can't any more. The costs are significant. The availability of labour has been an issue but is easing a bit and the price of materials whilst off its peak in places is now very high.
Look very very carefully at the economics of what you are considering. In my view you are out on budget several times over.
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