EV charging, is advantage being taken of the public?
Discussion
Based on recent personal investigation I'd say it is. Change needed.
Planning to visit relatives in Channel Islands, and because I want to take them a bundle of stuff thought about going by car rather than usual fly and hire.
As it's an EV, and the few miles done over there during a week or even two reasoned that a top up charge near the ferry port before embarkation would probably see me out for the duration. At worst only one charge over there at outside.
So started scrolling zap map to check situation over there.
What a bloody eye opener.
Most expensive charger could find was 35p/kWh for a 150kW rapid.
The 22kW ones in the B&Q underground car park, free.
The St Aubin Hub 150kW free
Loads of 7.4, 22kW and 50kW public chargers all over the place, free, working and available.
For those who want to charge at home.
Jersey electricity has a subscription for those minded that way, £30 month, 3 year contract, includes supply and fitting of charger, warranty, also included free overnight EV charging.
Obviously for an island that measures 8 x 5 miles nobody will be doing spaceship miles but really!
Also only found one declared not working. None of this like round here with charger unavailable due to some thieving git having nicked the cables but when we fix it will be 80p/kWh and you just be thankful for that.
/rant
Planning to visit relatives in Channel Islands, and because I want to take them a bundle of stuff thought about going by car rather than usual fly and hire.
As it's an EV, and the few miles done over there during a week or even two reasoned that a top up charge near the ferry port before embarkation would probably see me out for the duration. At worst only one charge over there at outside.
So started scrolling zap map to check situation over there.
What a bloody eye opener.
Most expensive charger could find was 35p/kWh for a 150kW rapid.
The 22kW ones in the B&Q underground car park, free.
The St Aubin Hub 150kW free
Loads of 7.4, 22kW and 50kW public chargers all over the place, free, working and available.
For those who want to charge at home.
Jersey electricity has a subscription for those minded that way, £30 month, 3 year contract, includes supply and fitting of charger, warranty, also included free overnight EV charging.
Obviously for an island that measures 8 x 5 miles nobody will be doing spaceship miles but really!
Also only found one declared not working. None of this like round here with charger unavailable due to some thieving git having nicked the cables but when we fix it will be 80p/kWh and you just be thankful for that.
/rant
Ignore the cost of electricity entirely if you want, a rapid charger plus infrastructure costs 10s to 100s of thousands depending on performance and infrastructure.
There's about 45,000 hours in 5 years, but we know chargers are well below that in utilisation.
We also know a home charger is £1000 nearly, that is a huge overhead of a 7p/kWh tariff! But few people make that link.
There's about 45,000 hours in 5 years, but we know chargers are well below that in utilisation.
We also know a home charger is £1000 nearly, that is a huge overhead of a 7p/kWh tariff! But few people make that link.
Evanivitch said:
Ignore the cost of electricity entirely if you want, a rapid charger plus infrastructure costs 10s to 100s of thousands depending on performance and infrastructure.
There's about 45,000 hours in 5 years, but we know chargers are well below that in utilisation.
We also know a home charger is £1000 nearly, that is a huge overhead of a 7p/kWh tariff! But few people make that link.
What's the price of building a petrol station?There's about 45,000 hours in 5 years, but we know chargers are well below that in utilisation.
We also know a home charger is £1000 nearly, that is a huge overhead of a 7p/kWh tariff! But few people make that link.
As for the OP, yes, I think so.
When we travel with family/friends, there's always a couple of EVs now. Those with a company car, just fill up wherever as it's a company card. A lot of the build up of charging infrastructure has been together with that audience. When more and more businesses like stores and hospitality build out charging infrastructure, I'm failry confident question and demand will take over.
Evanivitch's point stands, a charger that's empty is costly. Making it cheaper and therefore more often used makes a lot of sense, if there's incentive. People with company cars don't have that incentive.
We already have an example here round the corner, two public chargers and one in the parking lot of the local bar, at 50m of each other. The local bar one is always occupied at night, whilst the other two seldom. They're 40% more expensive.
PS: I also remember Shell stating, over a decade ago, that when they would provide public charging, it would cost as much as filling up your car with petrol.
Ionity is mainly done by the legacy car manufactures.
Odd that it seems like the only ones that are doing it at a reasonable price are the ones that truly benefit from electrification, like Tesla.
Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 4th June 15:52
As a long term Tesla owner, I never used to take much notice of on-road charging costs because they were either free or ridiculously cheap. But the other day I charged up at an EV Point station (which are on the Tesla SC map) and noticed it was priced at 75p per kWh. So just 10x my home night charging rate.
I think this'll just be a really basic function of the size of the island; car ownership and car use will be much lower than in the UK where people have much more area they can cover before they end up in the sea. People aren't hammering the free B&Q chargers because they have nowhere to go, so the cost is low and it encourages customers to like B&Q.
We could easily cover 8m x 5m in amazing infrastructure and charge next to nothing for it if it's users never left that area.
We could easily cover 8m x 5m in amazing infrastructure and charge next to nothing for it if it's users never left that area.
I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but technically wouldn't small places like Jersey be more environmentally friendly to continue with petrol cars. For an EV to "break even" on manufacture/tailpipe emissions at let's say 50k miles, surely not many local cars ever come close to that mileage there?
Goatwidcoat said:
I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but technically wouldn't small places like Jersey be more environmentally friendly to continue with petrol cars. For an EV to "break even" on manufacture/tailpipe emissions at let's say 50k miles, surely not many local cars ever come close to that mileage there?
- That 50k miles number is the very high end with a very dirty grid, in 2024 the UK energy mix the high end number is 25k, half that.
- The number gets better as the grid gets cleaner.
- Local pollution is directly related to tailpipe emissions.
- They're still able to buy petrol cars for the foreseeable.
Goatwidcoat said:
I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but technically wouldn't small places like Jersey be more environmentally friendly to continue with petrol cars. For an EV to "break even" on manufacture/tailpipe emissions at let's say 50k miles, surely not many local cars ever come close to that mileage there?
"Let's say" you just did some research?Evanivitch said:
Goatwidcoat said:
I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but technically wouldn't small places like Jersey be more environmentally friendly to continue with petrol cars. For an EV to "break even" on manufacture/tailpipe emissions at let's say 50k miles, surely not many local cars ever come close to that mileage there?
"Let's say" you just did some research?The Jersey electricity grid has a very low carbon intensity due to the high % of electricity import via subsea connectors from generation by nuclear and hydro, 2023 figures 25.29g CO2e/kWh vs UK 233g CO2e/kWh Source Jersey electricity.
Most of the island emissions come from transport, and heating of private, commercial and public buildings using gas and oil. Phew nobody mentioned coal fires.
Road transport emissions are of course a significant source close to people out and about, stating the obvious. Again source Jersey electricity and gov.
Someone else can use that to crunch numbers and comment on strategy, I'm only an occasional visitor.
I was simply surprised to see an utterly different playing field on vehicle charging. I agree with the observation that it's impossible to do spaceship miles and hence why chargers are not busy. Though being a simpleton would have thought, few customers, buying not much electricity with little need for a fast charge to complete a long journey would to my mind push up prices. Clearly there is a different and refreshing approach.
ZesPak said:
You misunderstood. The post is talking about electricity costing about 7p/kwh, yet some public chargers are over 70p.
Isn't the effective cost of electricity to the supplier more complex than that? The cost varies v's supply & demand, and savings are available to the consumer to reflect this.Hence the 7p/kWH rate only applying at times of low demand i.e. overnight. The rest of the day, the cost of home charging is more like 25-30p.
thepawbroon said:
Isn't the effective cost of electricity to the supplier more complex than that? The cost varies v's supply & demand, and savings are available to the consumer to reflect this.
Hence the 7p/kWH rate only applying at times of low demand i.e. overnight. The rest of the day, the cost of home charging is more like 25-30p.
Agreed, 7p rates are supplier subsidised by much Hence the 7p/kWH rate only applying at times of low demand i.e. overnight. The rest of the day, the cost of home charging is more like 25-30p.
Point remains though, drop the price and the consumption would increase, I elected to just add 6% to get me home on a 210 mile journey yesterday as it was 72p kWh at the fast chargers at Sainsbury s. If it d been less I might have gone to their cafe and charged the car up as opposed to arriving home empty.
Edited by bennno on Friday 6th June 08:57
I have no preference for their products but Tesco Podpoint chargers are 44p / kWh nationwide. They are only 7kw max speed (and usually more like 6 kw) but for a top up whilst shopping, this isn't so bad.
I have EON Next drive at 6.7p per kWh at night, and yes the daytime rate is higher, but only slightly to 27.7p, still very much worth it.
I have EON Next drive at 6.7p per kWh at night, and yes the daytime rate is higher, but only slightly to 27.7p, still very much worth it.
thepawbroon said:
Isn't the effective cost of electricity to the supplier more complex than that? The cost varies v's supply & demand, and savings are available to the consumer to reflect this.
Hence the 7p/kWH rate only applying at times of low demand i.e. overnight. The rest of the day, the cost of home charging is more like 25-30p.
To build on that point, even if you don't have home charging and plug it in at night in the street, you won't get any better rates.Hence the 7p/kWH rate only applying at times of low demand i.e. overnight. The rest of the day, the cost of home charging is more like 25-30p.
The only reasonable ones I've seen are Tesla Superchargers and some attached to small businesses and hospitality.
bennno said:
Agreed, 7p rates are supplier subsidised by much mother day rates and daily charges.
Point remains though, drop the price and the consumption would increase, I elected to just add 6% to get me home on a 210 mile journey yesterday as it was 72p kWh at the fast chargers at Sainsbury s. If it d been less I might have gone to their cafe and charged the car up as opposed to arriving home empty.
Yes I agree - I'm sure over time the cost of public charging will normalise, same a petrol/diesel where the pump price is usually set by other strategies, not just the wholesale cost of the fuel. But for now it's still an immature market.Point remains though, drop the price and the consumption would increase, I elected to just add 6% to get me home on a 210 mile journey yesterday as it was 72p kWh at the fast chargers at Sainsbury s. If it d been less I might have gone to their cafe and charged the car up as opposed to arriving home empty.
I have a pal in Aberdeen who owns a petrol station / convenience store / garage, his pricing strategy is to sell fuel as low as he can, and advertise that fact heavily. And guess what? He makes a fortune selling crisps and chocolate, which nobody ever checks the price of.
Similar to your point - if the public charger was 40p/kWH for example, you might have stopped in for a coffee which would have brought them a bigger margin. You might even have done your weekly shop.
uktrailmonster said:
As a long term Tesla owner, I never used to take much notice of on-road charging costs because they were either free or ridiculously cheap. But the other day I charged up at an EV Point station (which are on the Tesla SC map) and noticed it was priced at 75p per kWh. So just 10x my home night charging rate.
Its shocking really. For a bit of fun flip it around the to other way. Government announce you can buy and have installed a home petrol/diesel tank with integral pump and hose for £1,000.00 and will then be offered petrol/diesel for 13p a litre bulk delivered :-))Anyone who thinks charging their electric car up is going to remain at the current cheap cost is living in a fools paradise.
When I started driving diesel was less than half thr price of petrol, as the years went by and diesel cars proliferated the price difference swung round.
I predict the same will happen with electric charging.
The only reason there's off peak electricity at night is because it's "of peak"
When the majority have electric vehicles there will be no off peak.
It may even be that more electricity is being used at night with the whole country charging everything.
When I started driving diesel was less than half thr price of petrol, as the years went by and diesel cars proliferated the price difference swung round.
I predict the same will happen with electric charging.
The only reason there's off peak electricity at night is because it's "of peak"
When the majority have electric vehicles there will be no off peak.
It may even be that more electricity is being used at night with the whole country charging everything.
Easternlight said:
Anyone who thinks charging their electric car up is going to remain at the current cheap cost is living in a fools paradise.
When I started driving diesel was less than half thr price of petrol, as the years went by and diesel cars proliferated the price difference swung round.
I predict the same will happen with electric charging.
The only reason there's off peak electricity at night is because it's "of peak"
When the majority have electric vehicles there will be no off peak.
It may even be that more electricity is being used at night with the whole country charging everything.
Maybe so....When I started driving diesel was less than half thr price of petrol, as the years went by and diesel cars proliferated the price difference swung round.
I predict the same will happen with electric charging.
The only reason there's off peak electricity at night is because it's "of peak"
When the majority have electric vehicles there will be no off peak.
It may even be that more electricity is being used at night with the whole country charging everything.
I recall reading somewhere that the difference between peak daytime demand and trough night-time demand is equivalent to 1.5 million cars being simultaneously charged at 7kW. Seeing as there are about 1.5 million EVs already registered in the UK it might not be long!
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