Wildcat Heads, valve gear binding
Discussion
Hi,
I am doing a trial build of my 5L engine with Wildcat heads from Lloyds and Kent M238 cam.
With the pushrods Lloyds supplied (3/8ths, 8.8" long) my valve gear binds up. The pushrod binds up against the rocker body, and the pushrod looks to just graze the pushrod hole as well.
With the lift of the M238 cam, I suspected my pushrod was too long, so I bought a 5/16ths adjustable test pushrod. I think 8.7" rods will work. I think 3/8ths diameter at this length will also bind, so I ordered 5/16ths rods and new Chevy SBC guide plates, assuming the Wildcats used Chevy gear.
(To get optimal rocker geometry, I think my pushrods need to be longer than 8.8, but that won't work, so just getting clearance is the goal).
The new guide plates don't fit. The fixing centres and pushrod centres are further apart than the guide plates supplied with the heads.
Top is a guide plate supplied with the heads. Bottom is a Comp Cams Chevy SBC item.
Has anyone with Wildcat heats encountered this problem with valve gear binding? How did you solve it? Are the guide plates perhaps Ford items, or are they custom made?
I'll call Lloyds tomorrow, but hoping someone can give me insights on here, please?
I am doing a trial build of my 5L engine with Wildcat heads from Lloyds and Kent M238 cam.
With the pushrods Lloyds supplied (3/8ths, 8.8" long) my valve gear binds up. The pushrod binds up against the rocker body, and the pushrod looks to just graze the pushrod hole as well.
With the lift of the M238 cam, I suspected my pushrod was too long, so I bought a 5/16ths adjustable test pushrod. I think 8.7" rods will work. I think 3/8ths diameter at this length will also bind, so I ordered 5/16ths rods and new Chevy SBC guide plates, assuming the Wildcats used Chevy gear.
(To get optimal rocker geometry, I think my pushrods need to be longer than 8.8, but that won't work, so just getting clearance is the goal).
The new guide plates don't fit. The fixing centres and pushrod centres are further apart than the guide plates supplied with the heads.
Top is a guide plate supplied with the heads. Bottom is a Comp Cams Chevy SBC item.
Has anyone with Wildcat heats encountered this problem with valve gear binding? How did you solve it? Are the guide plates perhaps Ford items, or are they custom made?
I'll call Lloyds tomorrow, but hoping someone can give me insights on here, please?
Edited by PhysDoc on Tuesday 3rd June 19:29
Edited by PhysDoc on Tuesday 3rd June 19:40
Edited by PhysDoc on Tuesday 3rd June 20:13
PhysDoc said:
Hi,
I am doing a trial build of my 5L engine with Wildcat heads from Lloyds and Kent M238 cam.
With the pushrods Lloyds supplied (3/8ths, 8.8" long) my valve gear binds up. The pushrod binds up against the rocker body, and the pushrod looks to just graze the pushrod hole as well.
With the lift of the M238 cam, I suspected my pushrod was too long, so I bought a 5/16ths adjustable test pushrod. I think 8.7" rods will work. I think 3/8ths diameter at this length will also bind, so I ordered 5/16ths rods and new Chevy SBC guide plates, assuming the Wildcats used Chevy gear.
(To get optimal rocker geometry, I think my pushrods need to be longer than 8.8, but that won't work, so just getting clearance is the goal).
The new guide plates don't fit. The fixing centres and pushrod centres are further apart than the guide plates supplied with the heads.
Top is a guide plate supplied with the heads. Bottom is a Comp Cams Chevy SBC item.
Has anyone with Wildcat heats encountered this problem with valve gear binding? How did you solve it? Are the guide plates perhaps Ford items, or are they custom made?
I'll call Lloyds tomorrow, but hoping someone can give me insights on here, please?
Just a suggestion but you could a lot worse than contacting Rob Robertson via V8 developments for Wildcat installs.I am doing a trial build of my 5L engine with Wildcat heads from Lloyds and Kent M238 cam.
With the pushrods Lloyds supplied (3/8ths, 8.8" long) my valve gear binds up. The pushrod binds up against the rocker body, and the pushrod looks to just graze the pushrod hole as well.
With the lift of the M238 cam, I suspected my pushrod was too long, so I bought a 5/16ths adjustable test pushrod. I think 8.7" rods will work. I think 3/8ths diameter at this length will also bind, so I ordered 5/16ths rods and new Chevy SBC guide plates, assuming the Wildcats used Chevy gear.
(To get optimal rocker geometry, I think my pushrods need to be longer than 8.8, but that won't work, so just getting clearance is the goal).
The new guide plates don't fit. The fixing centres and pushrod centres are further apart than the guide plates supplied with the heads.
Top is a guide plate supplied with the heads. Bottom is a Comp Cams Chevy SBC item.
Has anyone with Wildcat heats encountered this problem with valve gear binding? How did you solve it? Are the guide plates perhaps Ford items, or are they custom made?
I'll call Lloyds tomorrow, but hoping someone can give me insights on here, please?
Edited by PhysDoc on Tuesday 3rd June 19:29
Edited by PhysDoc on Tuesday 3rd June 19:40
Edited by PhysDoc on Tuesday 3rd June 20:13
Rolly at ACR has the tooling for the WC heads so another person to call.
However.....
I agree with below poster the supplier should be giving you everything you need to do the install working and proven.
Well I called Lloyds.
Didn't help with my specific binding issue, but he told me that ACR are now only making heads speced for roller lifters (News to me. ACR's website mentions usage with flat tappet cams!), and he asked me what spec my valve springs were. I said I didn't know, so sent him measurements and a photo.
He says that my heads are speced for a roller camshaft, and converting the spring seats back to take lower rated springs is not possible.
Also said that Kent cams and lifters (which I bought back in April) are of such poor quality that they are almost gauranteed to fail, and this is well known in the Rover V8 community. Also news to me!
He didn't tell me my heads were only usable with roller lifters when I bought them in 2020/2021.
To say I am cross is an understatement. Not in the budget for 2 grand's worth of roller lifters, so I have myself a pair of very expensive door stops.
Didn't help with my specific binding issue, but he told me that ACR are now only making heads speced for roller lifters (News to me. ACR's website mentions usage with flat tappet cams!), and he asked me what spec my valve springs were. I said I didn't know, so sent him measurements and a photo.
He says that my heads are speced for a roller camshaft, and converting the spring seats back to take lower rated springs is not possible.
Also said that Kent cams and lifters (which I bought back in April) are of such poor quality that they are almost gauranteed to fail, and this is well known in the Rover V8 community. Also news to me!
He didn't tell me my heads were only usable with roller lifters when I bought them in 2020/2021.
To say I am cross is an understatement. Not in the budget for 2 grand's worth of roller lifters, so I have myself a pair of very expensive door stops.
Thats not great, they seem like a bit of a marmite company to me.
Maybe cut your losses and try and sell them on but that may prove difficult.
There is a group on Facebook that is very good, its called Rover V8 Engine Appreciation and is well worth joining even if you dont do Facebook.
Someone there may be able to help, its full of great knowledge and even some respected engine builders hang around there.
Its always worth asking.
Maybe cut your losses and try and sell them on but that may prove difficult.
There is a group on Facebook that is very good, its called Rover V8 Engine Appreciation and is well worth joining even if you dont do Facebook.
Someone there may be able to help, its full of great knowledge and even some respected engine builders hang around there.
Its always worth asking.
I am not on facebook unfortunately, and don't wish to be. The V8 Owners forum is, unfortunately, very quiet these days. Presumably also moved over to Facebook.
I won't sell them, I'll just delay finishing my build.
I am going to call Kent tomorrow to ask what the recommended spring pressures are. I can't find any info online. I obviously can't use the recommended springs as they are for Rover heads.
I think I have located what springs I have on Summit Racing, and if I'm right, they have 120lb installed pressure, and based on the spring rate on the website, I'll get 309lb at full lift. That is bang on the figures I have found online for generally recommended spring pressures for solid lifter cams. My Heath Robinson-esque measurement of my spring rate using bathroom scales in the vice do seem a little higher than those ratings, but it's not the most accurate way of measuring.
I also emailed ACR directly, and Acea and Rob at V8 Dev to see if they can offer any advice.
I won't sell them, I'll just delay finishing my build.
I am going to call Kent tomorrow to ask what the recommended spring pressures are. I can't find any info online. I obviously can't use the recommended springs as they are for Rover heads.
I think I have located what springs I have on Summit Racing, and if I'm right, they have 120lb installed pressure, and based on the spring rate on the website, I'll get 309lb at full lift. That is bang on the figures I have found online for generally recommended spring pressures for solid lifter cams. My Heath Robinson-esque measurement of my spring rate using bathroom scales in the vice do seem a little higher than those ratings, but it's not the most accurate way of measuring.
I also emailed ACR directly, and Acea and Rob at V8 Dev to see if they can offer any advice.
Edited by PhysDoc on Thursday 5th June 22:54
PhysDoc said:
Well I called Lloyds.
Didn't help with my specific binding issue, but he told me that ACR are now only making heads speced for roller lifters (News to me. ACR's website mentions usage with flat tappet cams!), and he asked me what spec my valve springs were. I said I didn't know, so sent him measurements and a photo.
He says that my heads are speced for a roller camshaft, and converting the spring seats back to take lower rated springs is not possible.
Also said that Kent cams and lifters (which I bought back in April) are of such poor quality that they are almost gauranteed to fail, and this is well known in the Rover V8 community. Also news to me!
He didn't tell me my heads were only usable with roller lifters when I bought them in 2020/2021.
To say I am cross is an understatement. Not in the budget for 2 grand's worth of roller lifters, so I have myself a pair of very expensive door stops.
I'll just pick up on one point on this open forum.Didn't help with my specific binding issue, but he told me that ACR are now only making heads speced for roller lifters (News to me. ACR's website mentions usage with flat tappet cams!), and he asked me what spec my valve springs were. I said I didn't know, so sent him measurements and a photo.
He says that my heads are speced for a roller camshaft, and converting the spring seats back to take lower rated springs is not possible.
Also said that Kent cams and lifters (which I bought back in April) are of such poor quality that they are almost gauranteed to fail, and this is well known in the Rover V8 community. Also news to me!
He didn't tell me my heads were only usable with roller lifters when I bought them in 2020/2021.
To say I am cross is an understatement. Not in the budget for 2 grand's worth of roller lifters, so I have myself a pair of very expensive door stops.
I will wholeheartedly disagree with the statement about Kent Cams.
As for the rest I will DM you tomorrow
Best
Martin
Belle427 said:
I have read about the quality of lifters not being that great but cant say from which company/s that is, would be interested to know what parts the likes of V8D and Powers use for rebuilds etc.
I got a Stealth cam kit from V8 developments earlier in the year. The camshaft was in a Kent Cams box (ground to Stealth spec by Kent) and the lifters were Kent cams ones.Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff