Which legislation does this scenario cover?
Discussion
Need a bit of help from PHers, please.
Limited Company commissions a logo from a Logo Designer.
Ltd Co pay the Logo Designer a desposit (Designer provided a personal account for the monies to be paid in to)
Logo concepts turn out to be absolute pants and Ltd Co demand a full refund as they have no confidence in the Logo Designer as they didn't follow their own design process and subsequent digging reveals that some of said Designer's work is aslo claimed by other designers. Logo Designer also claimed to be 'Award Winning', yet there is no evidence of any such thing.
Naturally, Logo Designer refuses to provide a refund.
Ltd Co now has to go down the Small Claims route, but what Legislation does this scenario cover as it turns out the Designer isn't actually a business - Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982? Fraud by Misrepresentation Act?
Thanks in advance.
Limited Company commissions a logo from a Logo Designer.
Ltd Co pay the Logo Designer a desposit (Designer provided a personal account for the monies to be paid in to)
Logo concepts turn out to be absolute pants and Ltd Co demand a full refund as they have no confidence in the Logo Designer as they didn't follow their own design process and subsequent digging reveals that some of said Designer's work is aslo claimed by other designers. Logo Designer also claimed to be 'Award Winning', yet there is no evidence of any such thing.
Naturally, Logo Designer refuses to provide a refund.
Ltd Co now has to go down the Small Claims route, but what Legislation does this scenario cover as it turns out the Designer isn't actually a business - Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982? Fraud by Misrepresentation Act?
Thanks in advance.
Not a prayer. Put it down to experience.
So far as I can see the only possible crutch to lean on would be if you can show the business falsely misrepresented its credentials/experience in a very misleading way. In law this is called "misrepresentation".
How much ££ is involved here? There's no way you'd get a quick and easy outcome through litigation. Put bluntly, when you commission an artist you don't get a refund if you don't like their work. (It would be different if you contracted for a painting of your dog and received a painting of a bus...)
So far as I can see the only possible crutch to lean on would be if you can show the business falsely misrepresented its credentials/experience in a very misleading way. In law this is called "misrepresentation".
How much ££ is involved here? There's no way you'd get a quick and easy outcome through litigation. Put bluntly, when you commission an artist you don't get a refund if you don't like their work. (It would be different if you contracted for a painting of your dog and received a painting of a bus...)
Panamax said:
Not a prayer. Put it down to experience.
So far as I can see the only possible crutch to lean on would be if you can show the business falsely misrepresented its credentials/experience in a very misleading way. In law this is called "misrepresentation".
How much ££ is involved here? There's no way you'd get a quick and easy outcome through litigation. Put bluntly, when you commission an artist you don't get a refund if you don't like their work. (It would be different if you contracted for a painting of your dog and received a painting of a bus...)
Thanks - it is the misrepresentation aspect that seems the most likely route - 'designer' has a very swish website with a portfolio, but after a little more digging, it appears that some of his work is also being claimed by other designers. His Google reviews were padded out by his wife/partner (again, found out after the event) so it does appear that he has set it up in order dupe unsuspecting clients. The concepts were so bad as to be laughable - it wasn't a case of a badly drawn dog, it was a case of 'this is taking the piss!!'.So far as I can see the only possible crutch to lean on would be if you can show the business falsely misrepresented its credentials/experience in a very misleading way. In law this is called "misrepresentation".
How much ££ is involved here? There's no way you'd get a quick and easy outcome through litigation. Put bluntly, when you commission an artist you don't get a refund if you don't like their work. (It would be different if you contracted for a painting of your dog and received a painting of a bus...)
@Geoffcapes - the commission was on par with other quotes, so wasn't 'on the cheap', but this designer was chosen due to being UK-based and (apparent) previous work.
I appreciate the 'put it down to experience and move on' advice, but have won Small Claim before and got the money back (smaller amount in that case) so not willing to let this go.
The fact your Designer is not a ‘business’ is largely irrelevant. Most Designers work freelance through design sites like People-per-Hour etc. I found our Graphic Designer through such a site and she’s brilliant but does it freelance on Evenings and Weekends in addition to her normal day-to-day GD employed job.
Litigation via MCOL will be difficult to win here I’d have thought. You’ve asked him/her to produce logos and they’ve done so then they’ve fulfilled their part of the contract. If you don’t like them, then that’s not really their issue. Design is subjective. Provided it’s been done with reasonable care and skill then that’s all you can ask for.
A DJ on the small claims track will look at this and will ultimately decide that you’ve asked for a logo designing, you’ve had a logo designed and you don’t like it. That’s where the farm-gate slams shut.
Had you had paid, and received nothing back then yes, you’d have a claim. Just because you don’t like what you’ve have had back doesn’t mean a claim will succeed.
In terms of copyright plagiarism on their website - as you don’t own any of that copyright then it’s none of your business in reality.
Out of interest? Have you raised your issues with the Designer and what do they say?
Litigation via MCOL will be difficult to win here I’d have thought. You’ve asked him/her to produce logos and they’ve done so then they’ve fulfilled their part of the contract. If you don’t like them, then that’s not really their issue. Design is subjective. Provided it’s been done with reasonable care and skill then that’s all you can ask for.
A DJ on the small claims track will look at this and will ultimately decide that you’ve asked for a logo designing, you’ve had a logo designed and you don’t like it. That’s where the farm-gate slams shut.
Had you had paid, and received nothing back then yes, you’d have a claim. Just because you don’t like what you’ve have had back doesn’t mean a claim will succeed.
In terms of copyright plagiarism on their website - as you don’t own any of that copyright then it’s none of your business in reality.
Out of interest? Have you raised your issues with the Designer and what do they say?
It’s art.
That you don’t like it is your opinion.
I haven’t used a graphics guy for years, but on top of logos, typefaces etc., he produces the templates for the (now seldom used) letterheads, comp slips, business cards, etc. As well as all the odd files used for the vinyl for vehicles, unit signage, workwear embroidery etc.
Unlike you though, this guy has a portfolio doing back 35 years, and is now part time due to AI and desktop publishing.
That you don’t like it is your opinion.
I haven’t used a graphics guy for years, but on top of logos, typefaces etc., he produces the templates for the (now seldom used) letterheads, comp slips, business cards, etc. As well as all the odd files used for the vinyl for vehicles, unit signage, workwear embroidery etc.
Unlike you though, this guy has a portfolio doing back 35 years, and is now part time due to AI and desktop publishing.
HolyMoly said:
ADJimbo said:
Provided it’s been done with reasonable care and skill then that’s all you can ask for.
It wasn't - hence the dispute.If you were given one logo, scribbled in Crayola on a side of A4 photocopier paper then your argument of reasonableness may succeed. If you’ve been given four / six / eight design options, all professionally done via Design Software, and you don’t like them, a Court is likely to still form an opinion they’ve been done with reasonable care and skill and the claim will not succeed.
Despite asking for advice, which many PH’ers have provided, you seem to want to litigate regardless over this issue. That’s your choice. I hope you get the result you crave but it’ll be an uphill struggle from the outset.
The question is whether the designer fulfilled the contract. You may not like what he designed, but that doesn't mean he didn't do the work as instructed.
The interface between corporate and creative is often fraught because the minds are different. You can order ten planks of wood and it's fairly obvious whether you get ten planks of wood. But with design, it's not that simple.
Usually a designer would come up with a few different ideas as rough visuals, then the client picks one and it's developed from there. You could always say 'Sorry that's not what we meant, can you have another go' and make sure the brief is solid. Trying to sue him because you didn't like what he did is a bit extreme IMHO. See 'corporate mind' above!
The interface between corporate and creative is often fraught because the minds are different. You can order ten planks of wood and it's fairly obvious whether you get ten planks of wood. But with design, it's not that simple.
Usually a designer would come up with a few different ideas as rough visuals, then the client picks one and it's developed from there. You could always say 'Sorry that's not what we meant, can you have another go' and make sure the brief is solid. Trying to sue him because you didn't like what he did is a bit extreme IMHO. See 'corporate mind' above!
HolyMoly said:
the Designer isn't actually a business
'Business' means nothing; he's either a company or a sole trader. Or possibly a partner.Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 25th May 21:13
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