NHS ambulances can't use steel wheels?
Discussion
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/21/nhs-tr...
So, according to this news story, ambulances can't use steel wheels because the heat build-up melts the plastic loose wheel nut indicators. So this NHS trust is being charged £445 per wheel to change to alloy wheels.
Is this just nonsense and someone has misunderstood something. Or is someone making a lot of money from this?
Surely the plastic wheel nut indicators, which are on millions of lorries and vans worldwide, are designed with a spec to take account of heat build-up, especially in places like Saudi Arabia etc where it is hot.
Thoughts?
So, according to this news story, ambulances can't use steel wheels because the heat build-up melts the plastic loose wheel nut indicators. So this NHS trust is being charged £445 per wheel to change to alloy wheels.
Is this just nonsense and someone has misunderstood something. Or is someone making a lot of money from this?
Surely the plastic wheel nut indicators, which are on millions of lorries and vans worldwide, are designed with a spec to take account of heat build-up, especially in places like Saudi Arabia etc where it is hot.
Thoughts?
Matt_T said:
Surely the plastic wheel nut indicators, which are on millions of lorries and vans worldwide, are designed with a spec to take account of heat build-up, especially in places like Saudi Arabia etc where it is hot.
Thoughts?
As well as their function of indicating movement, I think they're actually designed to melt to highlight brake binding or other overheating issues. And the operating temperature of steel wheels might be different to alloys, though I've no idea about that.Thoughts?
So if that's true, I can imagine a world in which accepting these wheels means you have to maintain an inventory of two different types of indicator, and have a process to fit the right ones to the right wheels, and blah blah blah, and you increase the risk of that safety system ultimately failing. So you'd rather just do a supply swap and unify everything like it was meant to be.
What a great idea! Alloy wheels are known for their superior robustness compared to steelies.
Ambulance fully laden with all the medical and electrical kit.....pot holes.........speed bumps.....what could possibly go wrong.
I think that Trust needs to have a good look at who/why is signing-off/authorising those types of purchases.
Ambulance fully laden with all the medical and electrical kit.....pot holes.........speed bumps.....what could possibly go wrong.
I think that Trust needs to have a good look at who/why is signing-off/authorising those types of purchases.
trashbat said:
Matt_T said:
Surely the plastic wheel nut indicators, which are on millions of lorries and vans worldwide, are designed with a spec to take account of heat build-up, especially in places like Saudi Arabia etc where it is hot.
Thoughts?
As well as their function of indicating movement, I think they're actually designed to melt to highlight brake binding or other overheating issues. And the operating temperature of steel wheels might be different to alloys, though I've no idea about that.Thoughts?
So if that's true, I can imagine a world in which accepting these wheels means you have to maintain an inventory of two different types of indicator, and have a process to fit the right ones to the right wheels, and blah blah blah, and you increase the risk of that safety system ultimately failing. So you'd rather just do a supply swap and unify everything like it was meant to be.
Happy to be proven wrong and educated. Every day's a school day and all that.
Edited to say, does wheel material really make that much if a difference?
How much heat build up does an Ambulance suffer? Yes they're heavy and can being going reasonably quickly.... but aside for an emergency stop situation, are they on the brakes enough to build up enough heat to melt plastic / nylon / whatever the indicators are made off? I'm also a bit confused as surely the wheel bolts / nuts are steel and as the indicators are in direct contact... heat transfer from the hub through the bolts / nuts / studs would be a factor? I honestly can't understand how swapping from a steel wheel to an alloy wheel would make much difference... also alloy wheel as in an alloy material and not a set of 18" TSW Venoms or something.
trashbat said:
I agree with you, but I'm not sure if you think you're disagreeing with me 
My guess would be if there's a, err, material difference, it will be about rates of heat dissipation into the air.
Correct, remember Met Police Rover SD1s running on Minilites, after many many trials that was the first one that actually worked and dealt with the overheating issue.My guess would be if there's a, err, material difference, it will be about rates of heat dissipation into the air.
I guess today there would be a different solution though still at a significant cost no doubt.
Still maintain the view that fitting these indicators is a statement that your maintenance people can't be trusted to fit wheels properly.
Here's something more useful than the "news" articles. A response to FOI request from the Trust involved.
"Dear P. Holmes
Further to our responses regarding the retrofit of alloy wheels to
ambulances, please see a further clarification.
The number of the vehicles that are being retrofitted with alloy wheels is
in fact 75. The previous figure of 132 related to the number of sets of
alloy wheels that were purchased in this order and not all were intended
for the retrofitting of the ambulances.
This has meant that we have had to revise the associated figures on cost.
We apologise for the error.
As said previously, many vehicles in our fleet have used steel wheels and
there is no evidence steel wheels on ambulances cannot withstand 999
response driving conditions.
We have had instances where plastic indicator tabs designed to show when
wheel nuts need tightening were affected by heat. When the nuts were
checked there were no instances where they were loose.
The Trust took the decision to change to alloy wheels which have better
heat distribution properties to ensure we do not take vehicles off road
unnecessarily. There is no additional cost than if the wheels had been
fitted before delivery.
This work is being done a phased approach so that we always have the
appropriate number of vehicles to serve our patients.
1. How many vehicles are being retro fitted.
75
2. Total cost of wheels per vehicle of the retrofit
£1,786
3. Grand total cost of all vehicles including labour.
£133,500
4. Is this cost being covered by the Trust?
Yes – and was budgeted for in the initial procurement of these vehicles.
5. If so who is being held accountable for this error?
Procurement of the vehicles followed the Trust’s governance processes,
therefore accountability does not lie with a single individual.
Please do not hesitate to contact me should you require any further
information.
Kind regards
FOI Officer"
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cost_of_all...
"Dear P. Holmes
Further to our responses regarding the retrofit of alloy wheels to
ambulances, please see a further clarification.
The number of the vehicles that are being retrofitted with alloy wheels is
in fact 75. The previous figure of 132 related to the number of sets of
alloy wheels that were purchased in this order and not all were intended
for the retrofitting of the ambulances.
This has meant that we have had to revise the associated figures on cost.
We apologise for the error.
As said previously, many vehicles in our fleet have used steel wheels and
there is no evidence steel wheels on ambulances cannot withstand 999
response driving conditions.
We have had instances where plastic indicator tabs designed to show when
wheel nuts need tightening were affected by heat. When the nuts were
checked there were no instances where they were loose.
The Trust took the decision to change to alloy wheels which have better
heat distribution properties to ensure we do not take vehicles off road
unnecessarily. There is no additional cost than if the wheels had been
fitted before delivery.
This work is being done a phased approach so that we always have the
appropriate number of vehicles to serve our patients.
1. How many vehicles are being retro fitted.
75
2. Total cost of wheels per vehicle of the retrofit
£1,786
3. Grand total cost of all vehicles including labour.
£133,500
4. Is this cost being covered by the Trust?
Yes – and was budgeted for in the initial procurement of these vehicles.
5. If so who is being held accountable for this error?
Procurement of the vehicles followed the Trust’s governance processes,
therefore accountability does not lie with a single individual.
Please do not hesitate to contact me should you require any further
information.
Kind regards
FOI Officer"
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cost_of_all...
evil.edna said:
What a great idea! Alloy wheels are known for their superior robustness compared to steelies.
Ambulance fully laden with all the medical and electrical kit.....pot holes.........speed bumps.....what could possibly go wrong.
I think that Trust needs to have a good look at who/why is signing-off/authorising those types of purchases.
Don’t people just love spending other people’s ( taxpayers) money?Ambulance fully laden with all the medical and electrical kit.....pot holes.........speed bumps.....what could possibly go wrong.
I think that Trust needs to have a good look at who/why is signing-off/authorising those types of purchases.
raspy said:
Here's something more useful than the "news" articles. A response to FOI request from the Trust involved.
"Dear P. Holmes
Further to our responses regarding the retrofit of alloy wheels to
ambulances, please see a further clarification.
The number of the vehicles that are being retrofitted with alloy wheels is
in fact 75. The previous figure of 132 related to the number of sets of
alloy wheels that were purchased in this order and not all were intended
for the retrofitting of the ambulances.
Did anyone ask what the other 57 sets of wheels were for? New alloys for the the senior managers cars?"Dear P. Holmes
Further to our responses regarding the retrofit of alloy wheels to
ambulances, please see a further clarification.
The number of the vehicles that are being retrofitted with alloy wheels is
in fact 75. The previous figure of 132 related to the number of sets of
alloy wheels that were purchased in this order and not all were intended
for the retrofitting of the ambulances.
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