IHT, my dad and his ex-wife!

[71Flipper]

Hi all

I'm currently writing this in a bit of a daze giving the news my dad has just given me. I am very aware that I will possibly sound entitled, but I want to know the best way forward and as I've been around for quite a while and I know there's quite a lot of expertise on here so I thought I'd see what good old PH has to offer in the way of advice.

I'll try and keep it short.....

My dad asked me to call him today when I as he had something to tell me...its not important....Hmmmm! He is 80 years, has his own little business which he lives quite comfortably off. However, he is never EVER wrong, doesn't like giving money to solicitors or taking advice from anyone. He has been married twice and divorced his last wife about 10 years ago, but remains on friendly terms with her.

'I remarried me ex-wife a couple of weeks ago because of IHT. Her current partner is terminally ill and when he pops his clogs she won't be left with much. By remarrying her she gets everything when I die apart from my house and then when she dies she'll leave everything to you and your sister. in the meantime she'll be able to take a small income from my business as a pension and be able to live, we won't be living together and continue to live seperate lives, this is just a way to look after her as I think she's broke.'

I have so many questions, but I just do not know where to start. Not only does he have the business with two fairly large warehouses, he has an a few bonds and ISA etc but I have no idea how much.

He said that he'll change his will to reflect this and write a letter of 'expression of wishes', but then its essentially down to her (my words) to keep her end of the deal when she dies. When I asked him how can he be sure that she doesn't keep it all (I felt very awkward asking this), he just said she won't do that, you'll just have to be nice to her...

I know that I am not entitled to anything and he can do whatever he wants with his money, but I just feel that this is plain bonkers. I genuinely don't have a problem with him helping her out, they built the business together, but when they got divorced he bought her out. I have no idea whether he has taken any advice, but I suspect not. I feel at the very least he should do a will as 'tenants in common' with her, but would this even stand if they have no intention to live together. I feel that I should take some professional advice to help me understand all this and maybe suggest a few things so that all his assets can be protected.

Anyway, I said I'll try and keep it short and I've rambled on, what would you do, how do you think the best way forward for me would be? If you have any further questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

Thanks, 71Flipper

[balham123]

I worked with someone once from a fairly wealthy family. who had always been told he would inherit a fairly sizable sum. Dad died. Mum inherited everything. Few years later mum remarried a younger man. They both said at the time of the marriage that nothing has changed and he would be inheriting when new stepdad died. Then mum died. Few years later the stepdad remarried someone (again younger) with several kids from a previous marriage and suddenly plan was to split money evenly between all the kids. If they keep marrying younger they will outlive him. He had pretty much given up on ever getting anything.

His feeling was if his dad had realised what would have happened down the line, he would have altered his will.

[Mr-B]

"I feel at the very least he should do a will as 'tenants in common' with her" I think you are confusing property ownership terms here, but that aside if your dad wants to provide some benefit to his new wife and protect your inheritance at the same time he should be looking at trusts, maybe ask him if he as looked into that? If not then try and steer him to get some prof advice on the subject.

[C69]

71Flipper said:

However, he is never EVER wrong, doesn't like giving money to solicitors or taking advice from anyone.

On this occasion, he really needs to give some money to a solicitor and get a will written (and properly witnessed) that ensures what he wants to happen after both he and his new wife are dead is actually able to happen.

71Flipper said:

'I remarried me ex-wife a couple of weeks ago because of IHT. Her current partner is terminally ill and when he pops his clogs she won't be left with much. By remarrying her she gets everything when I die apart from my house and then when she dies she'll leave everything to you and your sister.'

Where does the "apart from my house" part come from? Who is that being left to? Also, does he realise that any existing will usually becomes invalid upon marriage?

71Flipper said:

I have so many questions, but I just do not know where to start. Not only does he have the business with two fairly large warehouses, he has an a few bonds and ISA etc but I have no idea how much.

If he doesn't get a new will written, rules of intestacy are likely to apply. Assuming he's in England or Wales, his wife will get £322k plus half of the rest of the estate. The remainder would be split between his children.

71Flipper said:

He said that he'll change his will to reflect this and write a letter of 'expression of wishes', but then its essentially down to her (my words) to keep her end of the deal when she dies. When I asked him how can he be sure that she doesn't keep it all (I felt very awkward asking this), he just said she won't do that, you'll just have to be nice to her...

I feel frustrated on your behalf reading this paragraph. Hoping that one party will be nice to another party to ensure that his wishes are eventually carried out (possibly many years after he's dead) is 'head in sand' at best, and inconsiderately lazy at worst. What if your father's new wife remarries after he's dead? Has she got any children from previous relationships? You and your sister risk inheriting nothing from his estate, unless there's a cast-iron will in place (which may involve a trust arrangement for certain assets such as the house). An 'expression of wishes' letter is a waste of a sheet of paper.

[Mr E]

He really must talk to a professional to ensure what he wants to happen is written down so that it must happen.

Has he said who his executor is?

[dundarach]

Without being horrible, he's an idiot and I'd be, as I did, explaining it clearly.

With hindsight, I'm glad I did!

[HTP99]

C69 said:

71Flipper said:

However, he is never EVER wrong, doesn't like giving money to solicitors or taking advice from anyone.

On this occasion, he really needs to give some money to a solicitor and get a will written (and properly witnessed) that ensures what he wants to happen after both he and his new wife are dead is actually able to happen.

71Flipper said:

'I remarried me ex-wife a couple of weeks ago because of IHT. Her current partner is terminally ill and when he pops his clogs she won't be left with much. By remarrying her she gets everything when I die apart from my house and then when she dies she'll leave everything to you and your sister.'

Where does the "apart from my house" part come from? Who is that being left to? Also, does he realise that any existing will usually becomes invalid upon marriage?

71Flipper said:

I have so many questions, but I just do not know where to start. Not only does he have the business with two fairly large warehouses, he has an a few bonds and ISA etc but I have no idea how much.

If he doesn't get a new will written, rules of intestacy are likely to apply. Assuming he's in England or Wales, his wife will get £322k plus half of the rest of the estate. The remainder would be split between his children.

71Flipper said:

He said that he'll change his will to reflect this and write a letter of 'expression of wishes', but then its essentially down to her (my words) to keep her end of the deal when she dies. When I asked him how can he be sure that she doesn't keep it all (I felt very awkward asking this), he just said she won't do that, you'll just have to be nice to her...

I feel frustrated on your behalf reading this paragraph. Hoping that one party will be nice to another party to ensure that his wishes are eventually carried out (possibly many years after he's dead) is 'head in sand' at best, and inconsiderately lazy at worst. What if your father's new wife remarries after he's dead? Has she got any children from previous relationships? You and your sister risk inheriting nothing from his estate, unless there's a cast-iron will in place (which may involve a trust arrangement for certain assets such as the house). An 'expression of wishes' letter is a waste of a sheet of paper.

Yep, my dad didn't finalise a will, he did have an expression of wishes all written down, his widow said she would respect it.......she didn't! We've not seen anything.

[Slow.Patrol]

balham123 said:

I worked with someone once from a fairly wealthy family. who had always been told he would inherit a fairly sizable sum. Dad died. Mum inherited everything. Few years later mum remarried a younger man. They both said at the time of the marriage that nothing has changed and he would be inheriting when new stepdad died. Then mum died. Few years later the stepdad remarried someone (again younger) with several kids from a previous marriage and suddenly plan was to split money evenly between all the kids. If they keep marrying younger they will outlive him. He had pretty much given up on ever getting anything.

His feeling was if his dad had realised what would have happened down the line, he would have altered his will.

We had similar in our family.

Great Grandfather was very wealthy. He left most of his wealth and business to his number one son (my Great Uncle). The other offspring got a house.

First wife of number one son died in childbirth. His son later died in WW2. He then married a woman 20 years his junior. No children. Wife inherits the lot. Two pubs, 500 acre farm, shop and building business.

Sorry OP, your Dad needs to see a solicitor, but it will be difficult for you to try and convince him without sounding self serving.

Why did your Dad split up with his wife? It might be worth reminding him.

Is non consummation of a marriage still grounds for annulment?

[mikeiow]

dundarach said:

Without being horrible, he's an idiot and I'd be, as I did, explaining it clearly.

With hindsight, I'm glad I did!

He does sound like a total arse, & sadly if he writes his will so the ex-now-new wife gets it all, I sadly doubt the OP will get anything

Doesn’t sound like terms are cordial enough to sit and have a proper conversation, but that might be worth trying.

If he wants her to have something, then write the will to give her something. Remarrying her was the move of an unhinged idiot

[Vasco]

This raises so many issues. A solicitor needs to be involved - it would probably be worth you paying for advice too.

[Sheets Tabuer]

Are you sure all his marbles are there? that sounds insane.

[bigpriest]

In terms of inheritance "Expect nothing, anything is a bonus". You generally have one-shot with a will and can't then control what someone does with their share so promises may be made but they're worthless and just cause resentment down the line. It's definitely Solicitor time.

[Slow.Patrol]

Vasco said:

This raises so many issues. A solicitor needs to be involved - it would probably be worth you paying for advice too.

Has he admitted in writing that he has married to avoid IHT? Does that have tax evasion implications?

It would be worth you and your sister engaging a solicitor on the QT in preparation of a future dispute.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Definitely needs to see a solicitor and draw up a proper will so that the property etc goes into trust for you and your sister. Likewise with the business and other assets.

INAL but the trust can be drawn up to give her an income and a right to live in the house.

As for an “Expression of Wishes” avoid this at all costs as it is not worth the paper it is written on - my Dad did one although his widow refuses to accept it and has not followed it!

I thought his widow was a decent person who would do right by him (she is religious to boot) - turns out I was wrong and she is a selfish cow!

[Muzzer79]

OP - it may stick in your throat, but if your Dad is of sound mind and these are his wishes then I don't really see what you can do? Especially if he's as stubborn as you say.

You can advise him of the pitfalls certainly - the real potential that what he wants will not happen. But if he's willing to re-marry his ex-wife to see her right, I doubt he'll believe that she'll stitch him (you) up when he's gone.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Muzzer79 said:

OP - it may stick in your throat, but if your Dad is of sound mind and these are his wishes then I don't really see what you can do? Especially if he's as stubborn as you say.

You can advise him of the pitfalls certainly - the real potential that what he wants will not happen. But if he's willing to re-marry his ex-wife to see her right, I doubt he'll believe that she'll stitch him (you) up when he's gone.

That is a very fair point and I would also suggest that the OP and his sister sit down with his father and double check what his father’s intentions are. That is the time that legal advice can be further recommended to him and a few “what if” scenarios put to him. Then his children will know exactly what was going through his mind.

Whilst an inheritance can never be expected - I would rather have seen my father live a lot longer than he did and he spent it all - I feel aggrieved that his widow has not followed his wishes (and it’s not about the money per se - more about how he would have wanted to help his grandchildren through uni’

In this situation a face to face meeting (with maybe notes made straight after it by OP and sister) will clarify in their minds exactly what their father’s intentions are.

[barryrs]

I had a similar conversation with my father and it didn’t appear to matter.

He and my stepmother have mirror wills leaving an even split between the 5 kids in each half; however, my father didn’t know that each party was free to change their will at anytime without notifying the other party.

Apparently I’m executor in both yet I don’t have a copy of the stepmother’s will just my father’s.

I suspect I will inherit 20% of my father’s half and zero from my stepmother’s but it’s his choice. I told him to spend everything he worked hard for as none of us need their money anyway, and any inheritance coming my way will just go on a newer weekend car!

[alscar]

Muzzer79 said:

OP - it may stick in your throat, but if your Dad is of sound mind and these are his wishes then I don't really see what you can do? Especially if he's as stubborn as you say.

You can advise him of the pitfalls certainly - the real potential that what he wants will not happen. But if he's willing to re-marry his ex-wife to see her right, I doubt he'll believe that she'll stitch him (you) up when he's gone.

Succinctly and well put.
OP , realistically all you and your sister can do if your Dad rewrites his will in favour of his ex wife is to put a stop or caveat on the will after he passes.
Whether this will do much other than to hold up proceedings and cost you a fair bit of money is another matter.
It would be far better to at least try and talk / reason with him now.
If you have children it might be worth using them as a reason not to exclude you and your sister etc.

[Sheepshanks]

barryrs said:

He and my stepmother have mirror wills leaving an even split between the 5 kids in each half; however, my father didn’t know that each party was free to change their will at anytime without notifying the other party.

A solicitor friend tell me that's not unusual, although mostly it's the bloke is older and changes it and it's typically to make sure his kids from his first marriage get something - basically men are cowards and they just chickened out at the time of doing the mirror will and caved in to what their new wife wanted.

The other thing that happens is some old people constantly fk about with their Wills. We experienced that with with wife's Godfather (who was childless and used to introduce my wife to people as his daughter) and he was was constantly under pressure to "remember" people who were distant blood relatives. I was quite surprised when the Will was read that my wife's bequest was unchanged in that she was left half the residual estate - but there were so many specific individual bequests that there wasn't much left.

Also her dad took all of his grandchildren out of his Will as he was miffed he wasn't seeing some on them - that upset my wife as our kids were very involved with him.

[Armitage.Shanks]

Slow.Patrol said:

Has he admitted in writing that he has married to avoid IHT? Does that have tax evasion implications?

It's not tax evasion is more an avoidance. Ken Dodd married his nurse on his deathbed to avoid IHT. That said he did have an axe to grind when HMRC investigated the suitcase of cash under his bed that he hadn't declared tax on