Shoplifting is getting out of hand, what can be done?
Discussion
Every single day, videos are put up on the internet of people going into Tescos/M&S/Asda/Sainsburys/Greggs etc, of people going into the store with shopping bags and helping themselves to expensive perfume, bottles of spirits, even nappies, in full view of other shoppers, staff and security staff.
Then they just brazenly walk out, making no attempt to disguise themselves.
Personally, to some extent, I blame the shops. having expensive stuff on open display, they don't help themselves.
The Police usually are not interested, due to low staffing levels, and the perpetrators can't be sent to prison because there is no more room.
What's the answer? Is there one?
Then they just brazenly walk out, making no attempt to disguise themselves.
Personally, to some extent, I blame the shops. having expensive stuff on open display, they don't help themselves.
The Police usually are not interested, due to low staffing levels, and the perpetrators can't be sent to prison because there is no more room.
What's the answer? Is there one?
I lived in Angola many years ago, in the majority of shops selling anything of value there you had to queue at a desk to order it (they'd give you a little ticket) queue at a second desk to pay for it (they'd stamp the ticket) then queue at a window to collect it (they'd stamp the ticket again)
The final queue was at the door, where your ticket had to be shown and the items checked off.
Zero theft this way, but it did take, on average, a morning to buy one printer ink cartridge so I'm not too sure the UK population would put up with it!!
Interestingly I had similar in an IT shop in Prague last month, so the concept hasn't completely died out.
The final queue was at the door, where your ticket had to be shown and the items checked off.
Zero theft this way, but it did take, on average, a morning to buy one printer ink cartridge so I'm not too sure the UK population would put up with it!!
Interestingly I had similar in an IT shop in Prague last month, so the concept hasn't completely died out.
Wacky Racer said:
What's the answer? Is there one?
See the latest from Greggs - £2 sandwiches to be behind the glass - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14726265/...I've been working with a lot of folk who are in this sector recently - Security & Loss prevention types and can confirm it is a massive problem. The numbers have gone up and up in the last few years (See British Retail Consortium stats if you care)
Not just the random scrotes that brazenly walk in and out but also organized gangs that target certain retailers and hunt in packs. There's very little the shops can do on a front line basis beyond trying to have security look visible and actively try to prevent the "known" ones coming in.
There is a lot of tech being developed to try and solve some of the problems - Think AI based security cameras looking for sneaky pocketing of items through to integrated tills that can double check that everything that was picked up was scanned correctly but imho most of these don't really address the brazen / group theft approach where the perpetrator doesn't actually care that they are on camera..
The police generally don't attend shoplifting incidents as far as I can tell
Security guards grab or touch someone they lose their jobs and get charged. The blazin scrotes know this. Guards are there to catch thr grannies and the ones who wont put up a fight.
However police do want to stop this.
2 officers were once in our shop collecting cctv when a known thief walked in. They hid round the corner and called for 2 more to turn up.
Thief was shocked when the officers sprung their trap and busted him.
They want to stop it but don't have the time in general nowadays.
However police do want to stop this.
2 officers were once in our shop collecting cctv when a known thief walked in. They hid round the corner and called for 2 more to turn up.
Thief was shocked when the officers sprung their trap and busted him.
They want to stop it but don't have the time in general nowadays.
To deter people from stealing you have to have, erm, a deterrent. We haven't.
The path to this has been a long one but it started many years ago when people and by that I mean the pressure groups started saying jailing shoplifters was a disproportionate punishment against women because they were more likely to shop lift for food.
That of course expanded and started to filter to other groups where pity was taken on people claiming they were feeding a habit or had mental health problems and do you really want to put people in prison for stealing something, after all no one was hurt.
Now you have people going in shops knowing full well nothing will happen, they can take what they like without paying for it and then give a sob story to the court and they'll be out 20 minutes later pilfering tonight's dinner from Tesco.
Bring back a consequence, a real deterrent for stealing and it will stop. A well functioning society depends on everyone knowing the rules and those rules being enforced, if not we have the lawlessness we are currently seeing.
The path to this has been a long one but it started many years ago when people and by that I mean the pressure groups started saying jailing shoplifters was a disproportionate punishment against women because they were more likely to shop lift for food.
That of course expanded and started to filter to other groups where pity was taken on people claiming they were feeding a habit or had mental health problems and do you really want to put people in prison for stealing something, after all no one was hurt.
Now you have people going in shops knowing full well nothing will happen, they can take what they like without paying for it and then give a sob story to the court and they'll be out 20 minutes later pilfering tonight's dinner from Tesco.
Bring back a consequence, a real deterrent for stealing and it will stop. A well functioning society depends on everyone knowing the rules and those rules being enforced, if not we have the lawlessness we are currently seeing.
Wacky Racer said:
Every single day, videos are put up on the internet of people going into Tescos/M&S/Asda/Sainsburys/Greggs etc, of people going into the store with shopping bags and helping themselves to expensive perfume, bottles of spirits, even nappies, in full view of other shoppers, staff and security staff.
Then they just brazenly walk out, making no attempt to disguise themselves.
Personally, to some extent, I blame the shops. having expensive stuff on open display, they don't help themselves.
The Police usually are not interested, due to low staffing levels, and the perpetrators can't be sent to prison because there is no more room.
What's the answer? Is there one?
Seriously?Then they just brazenly walk out, making no attempt to disguise themselves.
Personally, to some extent, I blame the shops. having expensive stuff on open display, they don't help themselves.
The Police usually are not interested, due to low staffing levels, and the perpetrators can't be sent to prison because there is no more room.
What's the answer? Is there one?
do you leave your car parked on the drive for all to see, or do you park it behind the bushes at the local park in case those little rascals suddenly take a liking to it.
I'll get flak for this, but I believe you should be able to leave anything on display without the thought of it being stolen, but that would require harsh punishment for anyone who is tempted to be away with it, and currently, we don't have that due to the policies we have created and the lack of deterrents in place.
Sheets Tabuer said:
To deter people from stealing you have to have, erm, a deterrent. We haven't.
The path to this has been a long one but it started many years ago when people and by that I mean the pressure groups started saying jailing shoplifters was a disproportionate punishment against women because they were more likely to shop lift for food.
That of course expanded and started to filter to other groups where pity was taken on people claiming they were feeding a habit or had mental health problems and do you really want to put people in prison for stealing something, after all no one was hurt.
Now you have people going in shops knowing full well nothing will happen, they can take what they like without paying for it and then give a sob story to the court and they'll be out 20 minutes later pilfering tonight's dinner from Tesco.
Bring back a consequence, a real deterrent for stealing and it will stop. A well functioning society depends on everyone knowing the rules and those rules being enforced, if not we have the lawlessness we are currently seeing.
Completely agree. The path to this has been a long one but it started many years ago when people and by that I mean the pressure groups started saying jailing shoplifters was a disproportionate punishment against women because they were more likely to shop lift for food.
That of course expanded and started to filter to other groups where pity was taken on people claiming they were feeding a habit or had mental health problems and do you really want to put people in prison for stealing something, after all no one was hurt.
Now you have people going in shops knowing full well nothing will happen, they can take what they like without paying for it and then give a sob story to the court and they'll be out 20 minutes later pilfering tonight's dinner from Tesco.
Bring back a consequence, a real deterrent for stealing and it will stop. A well functioning society depends on everyone knowing the rules and those rules being enforced, if not we have the lawlessness we are currently seeing.
We were in New Orleans last week, in a Nordstrom department store. We saw someone furtively putting things under his jacket at about the same time as a member of staff saw him. Within 10 minutes (and probably nearer 6 or 7) he was being led away in handcuffs by the police.
I wonder how their shoplifting stats compare with ours?
A notorious housing estate in Brent in the late 70s was visited once a day by a converted milk float selling milk, bread and a few other essentials. It had been converted into an armoured car. Money was exchanged for groceries through a small hatch. It was every bit as depressing as it sounds.
STe_rsv4 said:
Wacky Racer said:
Every single day, videos are put up on the internet of people going into Tescos/M&S/Asda/Sainsburys/Greggs etc, of people going into the store with shopping bags and helping themselves to expensive perfume, bottles of spirits, even nappies, in full view of other shoppers, staff and security staff.
Then they just brazenly walk out, making no attempt to disguise themselves.
Personally, to some extent, I blame the shops. having expensive stuff on open display, they don't help themselves.
The Police usually are not interested, due to low staffing levels, and the perpetrators can't be sent to prison because there is no more room.
What's the answer? Is there one?
Seriously?Then they just brazenly walk out, making no attempt to disguise themselves.
Personally, to some extent, I blame the shops. having expensive stuff on open display, they don't help themselves.
The Police usually are not interested, due to low staffing levels, and the perpetrators can't be sent to prison because there is no more room.
What's the answer? Is there one?
do you leave your car parked on the drive for all to see, or do you park it behind the bushes at the local park in case those little rascals suddenly take a liking to it.
I'll get flak for this, but I believe you should be able to leave anything on display without the thought of it being stolen, but that would require harsh punishment for anyone who is tempted to be away with it, and currently, we don't have that due to the policies we have created and the lack of deterrents in place.
I too think people need the risk of serious punishment as a deterrent. If we aren't willing to chop off hands or fingers, then we have to have hard labour, or changing nappies.
And if we aren't willing to do that, then have locked doors or turnstiles on stores which can only be opened by a security guard.
Of course I'm not really in favour of these solutions. I'd rather we lived in a society where antisocial scrotes didn't exist because all children are nurtured, educated and have enough to do, and gangs don't exist. Might sound like wishful thinking, but what functional society should tolerate a feral underclass for whom the rules don't apply?
And if we aren't willing to do that, then have locked doors or turnstiles on stores which can only be opened by a security guard.
Of course I'm not really in favour of these solutions. I'd rather we lived in a society where antisocial scrotes didn't exist because all children are nurtured, educated and have enough to do, and gangs don't exist. Might sound like wishful thinking, but what functional society should tolerate a feral underclass for whom the rules don't apply?
The only thing that can be done is a deterrent.
Which means jail time or a general acceptance that if a security guard enthusiastically restrains them that its fair game.
The culture around some areas is that anything you steal is totally fine. I won't judge, I was bought up by 2 excellent parents who both worked and had money and gave us opportunities, but I accept that not everyone's had that.
I do wonder where it ends though?
As someone (like many others) who had a car pinched off them via an overnight break smash and grab and now wakes up everytime I hear a noise, I do wonder whether the culture of 'take what you like' starts from getting away with it at the local shop.
Which means jail time or a general acceptance that if a security guard enthusiastically restrains them that its fair game.
The culture around some areas is that anything you steal is totally fine. I won't judge, I was bought up by 2 excellent parents who both worked and had money and gave us opportunities, but I accept that not everyone's had that.
I do wonder where it ends though?
As someone (like many others) who had a car pinched off them via an overnight break smash and grab and now wakes up everytime I hear a noise, I do wonder whether the culture of 'take what you like' starts from getting away with it at the local shop.
Sheets Tabuer said:
To deter people from stealing you have to have, erm, a deterrent. We haven't.
As above.There was a thread elsewhere about people using dodgy Fire sticks to access various TV channels. It's scummy behaviour but the chances of being caught are minimal so lots and lots of scummy people do it.
For shoplifting i think local naming and shaming would be a cheap and effective deterrent.
Our police service needs a shake up.
If they're no longer going to deal with theft, then they're no longer doing their job.
The British public are being charged more for council tax, yet services are reducing.
The result of this is actually very serious.
What'll happen is shopkeepers will take the law into their own hands.
The result is people will get hurt, and possibly a shopkeeper falls foul of the law themselves for simply trying to protect their property from theft.
If they're no longer going to deal with theft, then they're no longer doing their job.
The British public are being charged more for council tax, yet services are reducing.
The result of this is actually very serious.
What'll happen is shopkeepers will take the law into their own hands.
The result is people will get hurt, and possibly a shopkeeper falls foul of the law themselves for simply trying to protect their property from theft.
A friend who is from Nepal told me that in his country, if you get caught shoplifting, every shop owner in the mall/ on the road, comes out to beat you and then when the police arrive, they do the same again. As such, no one shop lifts.
Not saying that is a path we should go down, but it is swift justice and a deterrent.
He was very surprised that nothing happens here.
Not saying that is a path we should go down, but it is swift justice and a deterrent.
He was very surprised that nothing happens here.
Trevor555 said:
Our police service needs a shake up.
If they're no longer going to deal with theft, then they're no longer doing their job.
The British public are being charged more for council tax, yet services are reducing.
The result of this is actually very serious.
What'll happen is shopkeepers will take the law into their own hands.
The result is people will get hurt, and possibly a shopkeeper falls foul of the law themselves for simply trying to protect their property from theft.
Yes, the police service as a whole needs a shake up - perhaps even a Royal Commission - but it’s not the fault of the officers themselves, who bear the brunt of the the public’s frustration.If they're no longer going to deal with theft, then they're no longer doing their job.
The British public are being charged more for council tax, yet services are reducing.
The result of this is actually very serious.
What'll happen is shopkeepers will take the law into their own hands.
The result is people will get hurt, and possibly a shopkeeper falls foul of the law themselves for simply trying to protect their property from theft.
15-20 years ago, a Bobby could arrive at a store and arrest a detained shoplifter, have them booked in back at the station, interviewed, charged and the court paperwork completed inside 4 hours.
These days, if you make an arrest at your first job of the day, you’re looking at the rest of that whole shift just to get them booked into custody and interviewed - more if there’s hospital or open door cell-watches involved - and at least another whole shift to complete the court paperwork. Everything takes at least four times as long as it used to.
I'm sure we've all seen the videos of people just walking into shops and walking out without any intervention. I saw one a few weeks ago where a guy had filmed someone walking into Greggs loading up a carrier bag full of stuff and walk out, I'm sure he asked why they didn't stop them and it was a value thing, if under a certain value the police weren't interested. He then asked to the camera should we all just steal stuff from Greggs and why are we paying for it?
I also recall working in Liverpool a few years ago, walking to the office right through the city centre, there's a large Boots with multiple entrances as I was walking by the doors opened and a lad ran out carrying boxes of aftershave, perfume and he was gone before the security guards had even noticed.
And years before that I walked into an off-license somewhere near Manchester and the whole counter was floor to ceiling glass with a small window to pass things through, it was a horrible place to go in, really depressing and it made me think what it must be like to be a shop owner if that is the work environment you have to deal with.
I certainly don't want to see that popping up across the whole of retail stores, but there needs to be a forceful deterrent otherwise it becomes the norm.
I also recall working in Liverpool a few years ago, walking to the office right through the city centre, there's a large Boots with multiple entrances as I was walking by the doors opened and a lad ran out carrying boxes of aftershave, perfume and he was gone before the security guards had even noticed.
And years before that I walked into an off-license somewhere near Manchester and the whole counter was floor to ceiling glass with a small window to pass things through, it was a horrible place to go in, really depressing and it made me think what it must be like to be a shop owner if that is the work environment you have to deal with.
I certainly don't want to see that popping up across the whole of retail stores, but there needs to be a forceful deterrent otherwise it becomes the norm.
Wacky Racer said:
Every single day, videos are put up on the internet of people going into Tescos/M&S/Asda/Sainsburys/Greggs etc, of people going into the store with shopping bags and helping themselves to expensive perfume, bottles of spirits, even nappies, in full view of other shoppers, staff and security staff.
Then they just brazenly walk out, making no attempt to disguise ?
I've not seen one of these videos, is it your algorithm at fault, or perhaps mine?Then they just brazenly walk out, making no attempt to disguise ?
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