New brakes squeaking - labour or part issue?

[MervJnr]

Recently had discs and pads replaced all round. I supplied the parts (from a well known premium brand for both discs and pads) as they were a fair amount cheaper for me to buy from a motor factors than the garage were quoting.

Garage made a point of saying there is no warranty on the parts - absolutely fair enough. Now, after being fitted and allowing ~1000 miles to bed in, the brakes are continuing to squeak under light application - just normal day to day driving. Seems to have become worse over the past week.

Assuming this is enough distance to for them to be bedded in by now, what would people's recommendations be in terms of who to contact first?

The way I imagine it playing out: the garage take a look, say they've done everything required of them on their end and send me to the supplier, who I then imagine will possibly send me back to a (different?) garage to have them inspected? Anyone else had a similar situation?

Thanks in advance

[Zio Di Roma]

MervJnr said:

Recently had discs and pads replaced all round. I supplied the parts (from a well known premium brand for both discs and pads) as they were a fair amount cheaper for me to buy from a motor factors than the garage were quoting.

Garage made a point of saying there is no warranty on the parts - absolutely fair enough. Now, after being fitted and allowing ~1000 miles to bed in, the brakes are continuing to squeak under light application - just normal day to day driving. Seems to have become worse over the past week.

Assuming this is enough distance to for them to be bedded in by now, what would people's recommendations be in terms of who to contact first?

The way I imagine it playing out: the garage take a look, say they've done everything required of them on their end and send me to the supplier, who I then imagine will possibly send me back to a (different?) garage to have them inspected? Anyone else had a similar situation?

Thanks in advance

Only in so far as I had a golden rule "never, under any circumstances, buy brake components from anyone other than the main dealer".

So, when I got a quote for £3k to replace my brakes I broke my golden rule and bought Brembo. They squealed like a stuck pig. The garage replaced them with other non-OEM pads and they still squeak. I am now going to have the same issue as you and will probably end up buying OEM.

Though I have the advantage that the garage supplied and fitted mine.

[GreenV8S]

MervJnr said:

I supplied the parts

That's almost always a bad idea. In the event of any problems, you can end up with the fitters blaming the parts and the parts supplier blaming the fitter, with you stuck in the middle. You're also unlikely to save much money. If the fitter also supplies the parts its in their interests to buy parts good enough to avoid warranty problems, and they can probably negotiate a better price than you can.

Curing brake squeal is more of an art than a science. To cure it you need to change the resonant frequency of the parts that are squealing. Here are some techniques which have worked for me in the past. I usually go through the list until the squeal stops. Note that it can come back as parts wear and accumulate dust and what worked last time may not work next time:

• fit an anti-squeal shim
• remove the anti-squeal shim
• add or remove anti-squeal paste
• bevel the front and rear training edges of the pads
• ensure the sliders are clean and greased
• ensure the pad bearing surfaces are cleaned and lightly greased

[E-bmw]

GreenV8S said:

MervJnr said:

I supplied the parts

That's almost always a bad idea. In the event of any problems, you can end up with the fitters blaming the parts and the parts supplier blaming the fitter, with you stuck in the middle. You're also unlikely to save much money. If the fitter also supplies the parts its in their interests to buy parts good enough to avoid warranty problems, and they can probably negotiate a better price than you can.

Curing brake squeal is more of an art than a science. To cure it you need to change the resonant frequency of the parts that are squealing. Here are some techniques which have worked for me in the past. I usually go through the list until the squeal stops. Note that it can come back as parts wear and accumulate dust and what worked last time may not work next time:

• fit an anti-squeal shim
• remove the anti-squeal shim
• add or remove anti-squeal paste
• bevel the front and rear training edges of the pads
• ensure the sliders are clean and greased
• ensure the pad bearing surfaces are cleaned and lightly greased

^^^^ Wot 'e said.

Unless you are doing the job yourself NEVER supply parts for a garage to fit, as if there is an issue they have YOUR parts to blame & you will rarely if ever get it sorted.

[Dave Brand]

MervJnr said:

I supplied the parts (from a well known premium brand for both discs and pads)

I'd assume that the pads conform to ECE R90, which means that in terms of braking performance they are a close match to OE. However, when it comes to noise it's something of a lottery.

A lot of work goes into developing the brakes on a new car, with the vehicle manufacturer, brake manufacture & friction material manufacturer working together to optimise the system as a whole. Aftermarket pads may in some respects be superior to OE (never forget, cars are designed by accountants, not engineers!) but they will not have been through the OE development procedure.

As Green V8S has said, curing brake squeal is more of an art than a science.

[Zio Di Roma]

FWIW I have agreed this morning to pay to swap out my after-market pads for OEM. Life is too deal with squealing breaks.

[MervJnr]

Thanks for the replies, it's as I thought then.. complicated! It's not the first time I've supplied parts myself and had a garage (albeit not this one) do the work, never had a problem until now.

I wonder what would happen in a case where a qualified mechanic had done the job themselves, on their own car, knowing they had done it properly?

Guess I'll have them checked over, by the original garage or another trusted one, to see if they can improve it or notice anything wrong with the pads / discs.

[Zio Di Roma]

MervJnr said:

Thanks for the replies, it's as I thought then.. complicated! It's not the first time I've supplied parts myself and had a garage (albeit not this one) do the work, never had a problem until now.

I wonder what would happen in a case where a qualified mechanic had done the job themselves, on their own car, knowing they had done it properly?

Guess I'll have them checked over, by the original garage or another trusted one, to see if they can improve it or notice anything wrong with the pads / discs.

It seems to be the case that OEM pads are just better. Cheaper pattern parts are cheaper not just because they are from another factory (perhaps) but because they are made with lesser materials. It's a bit like buying M&S beef burgers vs Iceland.

[brillomaster]

You could try a more forceful bedding in procedure... find a quiet bit of road, then do 10x 60mph to 10mph hard stops in a row to get both pads and discs nice and hot, then 10 minutes with minimal braking to cool them down again.

[Hustle_]

Zio Di Roma said:

Only in so far as I had a golden rule "never, under any circumstances, buy brake components from anyone other than the main dealer".

Zio Di Roma said:

It seems to be the case that OEM pads are just better.

It's this. Use OEM pads.

[Belle427]

brillomaster said:

You could try a more forceful bedding in procedure... find a quiet bit of road, then do 10x 60mph to 10mph hard stops in a row to get both pads and discs nice and hot, then 10 minutes with minimal braking to cool them down again.

I would try this first, maybe not as extreme but it can help.
What brand were the discs and pads?

[richhead]

MervJnr said:

Recently had discs and pads replaced all round. I supplied the parts (from a well known premium brand for both discs and pads) as they were a fair amount cheaper for me to buy from a motor factors than the garage were quoting.

Garage made a point of saying there is no warranty on the parts - absolutely fair enough. Now, after being fitted and allowing ~1000 miles to bed in, the brakes are continuing to squeak under light application - just normal day to day driving. Seems to have become worse over the past week.

Assuming this is enough distance to for them to be bedded in by now, what would people's recommendations be in terms of who to contact first?

The way I imagine it playing out: the garage take a look, say they've done everything required of them on their end and send me to the supplier, who I then imagine will possibly send me back to a (different?) garage to have them inspected? Anyone else had a similar situation?

Thanks in advance

Put yourself in the garage position, theve made no money on the job apart from labour, why would they be intersted in fixing it, you asked them to fit parts, and they have.
If they had supplied the parts, the may be a brand they have used before and know they will work.
Sorry trying to save money doesnt always work, you have bought the wrong parts, obviously as they dont work properly, its on you.
As an ex garage owner i hated customers like you, as you pay , often not much less, for crap parts, and ask you to fit them, while i would warranty the parts sourced and i fitted.

[Smint]

Green V8S answered the question and provided the cure.
Agree completely about not expecting a workshop to fit parts you bought unless they've specifically asked you to source something or some service they can't access.

Never had a squealing issue i couldn't cure in over 50 years working on cars and 4x4s, not once have i bought genuine brake friction materials but then not once have i bought drilled/grooved discs either, if that might be a contributory factor here.

A good strip clean and lube up will almost certainly fix this issue.

[Zio Di Roma]

Smint said:

Green V8S answered the question and provided the cure.
Agree completely about not expecting a workshop to fit parts you bought unless they've specifically asked you to source something or some service they can't access.

Never had a squealing issue i couldn't cure in over 50 years working on cars and 4x4s, not once have i bought genuine brake friction materials but then not once have i bought drilled/grooved discs either, if that might be a contributory factor here.

A good strip clean and lube up will almost certainly fix this issue.

I'm an ex mechanic. There are cars that just WON'T shut up with pattern pads. Which is why I have my golden rule about brake parts.

Even those that CAN be quietened down; how many times do you want to take off the wheels?

[Smint]

Zio Di Roma said:

I'm an ex mechanic. There are cars that just WON'T shut up with pattern pads. Which is why I have my golden rule about brake parts.

Even those that CAN be quietened down; how many times do you want to take off the wheels?

Well you don't keep taking the wheels off you do the job correctly in the first place, and that takes time and costs more than peanuts unless you can do the job yourself.

The OP tried to save some money by supplying parts, which left only some labour charges for the workshop, even if they would normally do a full brake service at the same time the OP removed the incentive to do so.
Another issue, and it might be related here, is that few people realise what is involved in proper brake servicing and how long it takes, we read here of comments from some how they can swap a set of brakes in minutes, yes a mechanic or competent DIYer can indeed swap such things in minutes, BUT, the brakes wil not have been cleaned and lubed correctly and the chances anyone has exercised the pistons in their bores or even worked and lubed he slide pins (if applicable) are minimal.

[Zio Di Roma]

Smint said:

Zio Di Roma said:

I'm an ex mechanic. There are cars that just WON'T shut up with pattern pads. Which is why I have my golden rule about brake parts.

Even those that CAN be quietened down; how many times do you want to take off the wheels?

Well you don't keep taking the wheels off you do the job correctly in the first place,

Sometimes doing the job properly isn't enough. It's down to the components you're working with.

If you believe that pattern brake parts will always be fine, if they are fitted correctly, you are wrong I am afraid.

[Smint]

Zio Di Roma said:

Sometimes doing the job properly isn't enough. It's down to the components you're working with.

If you believe that pattern brake parts will always be fine, if they are fitted correctly, you are wrong I am afraid.

Thats your opinion and you are fully entitled to it.

What i will grant you is not all pattern parts are of adequate quality, you pays your money etc.

[Zio Di Roma]

Smint said:

Zio Di Roma said:

Sometimes doing the job properly isn't enough. It's down to the components you're working with.

If you believe that pattern brake parts will always be fine, if they are fitted correctly, you are wrong I am afraid.

Thats your opinion and you are fully entitled to it.

What i will grant you is not all pattern parts are of adequate quality, you pays your money etc.

The problem appears to extend to products that you'd expect to be alright. Brembo as an example.

[Panamax]

Zio Di Roma said:

If you believe that pattern brake parts will always be fine, if they are fitted correctly, you are wrong I am afraid.

Yes, the OEM supplier will have done extensive testing before being awarded a contract. There can be tiny nuances of pad material, disc material and the combination of the two which affect brake noise. Pattern parts may "fit" and "work" and be "safe" but they're unlikely to have been through the same testing.

To suppress the risk of brake noise, buy from the dealership. Prices are often not much more expensive than pattern parts because they know it's a competitive market.

[Zio Di Roma]

Panamax said:

Zio Di Roma said:

If you believe that pattern brake parts will always be fine, if they are fitted correctly, you are wrong I am afraid.

Yes, the OEM supplier will have done extensive testing before being awarded a contract. There can be tiny nuances of pad material, disc material and the combination of the two which affect brake noise. Pattern parts may "fit" and "work" and be "safe" but they're unlikely to have been through the same testing.

To suppress the risk of brake noise, buy from the dealership. Prices are often not much more expensive than pattern parts because they know it's a competitive market.

This appears to be less the case with super premium brands. But, even then, I really believe that OEM brake parts are the only way to (almost) guarantee a squeal-free life.