Using EV as home "generator" - "hardwiring"?
Discussion
Is it possible/compliant to do this in the UK?
Someone on a Kia owner's forum posted a link to a hardwiring kit available in the USA that allows portable generators to be connected via the consumer unit to power half a dozen individual circuits. A video showed a car being plugged in (using the V2L adaptor) instead of using a portable generator.
From what I could make out, the unit contains 6 changeover switches each with a dedicated breaker. The switches allow a lighting or ring circuit to be swapped between the grid supply coming out of the CU and the generator input.
My car can do V2L up to 3.6KW via an onboard inverter, so I can run stuff in the house using an extension lead.
Basically wondering if it could be made "whole house" using a changeover unit and a dedicated cable to the car?
Obviously the cooker and electric shower are out, but it could run all the lights, computer/router, TV and microwave.
Someone on a Kia owner's forum posted a link to a hardwiring kit available in the USA that allows portable generators to be connected via the consumer unit to power half a dozen individual circuits. A video showed a car being plugged in (using the V2L adaptor) instead of using a portable generator.
From what I could make out, the unit contains 6 changeover switches each with a dedicated breaker. The switches allow a lighting or ring circuit to be swapped between the grid supply coming out of the CU and the generator input.
My car can do V2L up to 3.6KW via an onboard inverter, so I can run stuff in the house using an extension lead.
Basically wondering if it could be made "whole house" using a changeover unit and a dedicated cable to the car?
Obviously the cooker and electric shower are out, but it could run all the lights, computer/router, TV and microwave.
I see no reason why not, it's the same basic idea as using a petrol generator.
Might need some attention to the earthing to be 100% but nothing difficult, plenty discussion of that here https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/earthin...
Might need some attention to the earthing to be 100% but nothing difficult, plenty discussion of that here https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/earthin...
Sure, it's technically easy.
But if you're going to pay a card-carrying sparks to do it, you probably might as well get a proper home battery set up, which will have a much longer life in terms of number of cycles.
If you want to run a few lights and the TV in a power cut, just get some leads sorted.
With a fixed switching system, hardware that works would be the easy bit, getting it signed off would be the problem, and it's an evolving situation, what you get signed off now might not meet the regs when you come to sell your house in 10 years or whatever.
Then you might find the value of your car has been reduced if it's logged a lot of V2H use.
If you want glitch-free switching between sources it's a bit harder and more expensive.
What's your motivation? Saving money or getting through power cuts?
But if you're going to pay a card-carrying sparks to do it, you probably might as well get a proper home battery set up, which will have a much longer life in terms of number of cycles.
If you want to run a few lights and the TV in a power cut, just get some leads sorted.
With a fixed switching system, hardware that works would be the easy bit, getting it signed off would be the problem, and it's an evolving situation, what you get signed off now might not meet the regs when you come to sell your house in 10 years or whatever.
Then you might find the value of your car has been reduced if it's logged a lot of V2H use.
If you want glitch-free switching between sources it's a bit harder and more expensive.
What's your motivation? Saving money or getting through power cuts?
sherman said:
A secondhand Nissan leaf with a good battery is under £10k.
A Tesla car is £15k second hand.
A Tesla powerwall is £8k new.
You could sell off all the unneed car parts to fund the difference/ payoff most of your inital outlsy for the car
And LiFePO4 cells are under £80 per kWh now.A Tesla car is £15k second hand.
A Tesla powerwall is £8k new.
You could sell off all the unneed car parts to fund the difference/ payoff most of your inital outlsy for the car
You need a few hundred quids worth of electronics to make 'battery' into a 'battery system'.
The system on my mate's boat would cost about £2k now and would run my house's electrical needs for a day or two.
Apparently, you can get a fully fitted (and approved) solar panel and battery system for £5k or so?
The playing field has changed a lot in the last couple of years!
The killer though is that it costs about a grand to get a sparks with the right papers to do a straightforward job like changing a consumer unit.
Getting a more complex system sorted and certificated when it's not 'run of the mill' is going to cost.
Meanwhile, I can be online watching internet TV on my ipad with my 12V fridge on my boat.
OutInTheShed said:
Sure, it's technically easy.
But if you're going to pay a card-carrying sparks to do it, you probably might as well get a proper home battery set up, which will have a much longer life in terms of number of cycles.
Why would a smaller home battery doing greater depth of discharge cycles have a much longer life?But if you're going to pay a card-carrying sparks to do it, you probably might as well get a proper home battery set up, which will have a much longer life in terms of number of cycles.
Evanivitch said:
OutInTheShed said:
Sure, it's technically easy.
But if you're going to pay a card-carrying sparks to do it, you probably might as well get a proper home battery set up, which will have a much longer life in terms of number of cycles.
Why would a smaller home battery doing greater depth of discharge cycles have a much longer life?But if you're going to pay a card-carrying sparks to do it, you probably might as well get a proper home battery set up, which will have a much longer life in terms of number of cycles.
The OP is vague about the use scenario, so we can only guess depth of discharge and all that.
If you're DIYing, you can pick the low hanging fruit for little money.
If you're paying sparks, you need to have system of bigger scale and use it more, because the fixed cost of the installation is high.
Of course there are some cases where people will want to spend several £k for business back-up or similar rather than using it all the time for tariff shifting.
But then there's the scenario of driving home with a low EV battery and then the lights go out before you've charged it.
There's a saying about a Swiss Army knife only being one tool at any one moment?
Evanivitch said:
clockworks said:
Is it possible/compliant to do this in the UK?
Yes, and yes.Someone did a good thread on SpeakEV for their MG V2L vehicle. Their neighbour had it too. Used a manual changeover switch.
There are also Victron inverters that can take an AC input.
Cheib said:
Can you do it without telling the DNO ? Obviously you can but is it “compliant” ? I’d think you’d have to have some kind of automatic changeover to be compliant.
Manual changeover wouldn't require any DNO notification because the system would be isolated from grid in V2L. Automatic doesn't make it compliant, the Automatic changeover would need to be certified to be compliant.If you have a grid tie inverter that can export then upto 3.6kW that's a G98 notification and over would be a G99 authorisation request.
clockworks said:
My usage would be for power cuts, rather than saving money.
The American kit is 300 USD, and they reckon the same again for fitting by a qualified electrician. Obviously fitting would cost a lot more here.
At that price, it's cheaper than portable battery pack.
If considering buying from the US, don't forget that Americans do odd things regarding voltage.The American kit is 300 USD, and they reckon the same again for fitting by a qualified electrician. Obviously fitting would cost a lot more here.
At that price, it's cheaper than portable battery pack.
I certainly wouldn't buy a non-UK certified kit for something like this.
To clarify, I don't have solar or house batteries, but I have considered both. They just don't seem to make financial sense. Prices keep falling, so that may change.
Proper V2G or V2H (via a bidirectional charger) might be the solution eventually. My car might be capable of that, with a software update. Depends on how long it takes for it to be approved in the UK, and how much the charger and other kit costs.
There's also the issue of what happens with tarrifs in the future.
Battery life is also a concern. I wouldn't want to "wear out" my car battery in 5 or 6 years by powering the whole house from it. Killing the car to save a grand a year wouldn't make sense.
For now, I think I just need something simple to use (and relatively cheap) during power cuts.
To clarify, I don't have solar or house batteries, but I have considered both. They just don't seem to make financial sense. Prices keep falling, so that may change.
Proper V2G or V2H (via a bidirectional charger) might be the solution eventually. My car might be capable of that, with a software update. Depends on how long it takes for it to be approved in the UK, and how much the charger and other kit costs.
There's also the issue of what happens with tarrifs in the future.
Battery life is also a concern. I wouldn't want to "wear out" my car battery in 5 or 6 years by powering the whole house from it. Killing the car to save a grand a year wouldn't make sense.
For now, I think I just need something simple to use (and relatively cheap) during power cuts.
clockworks said:
My usage would be for power cuts, rather than saving money.
The American kit is 300 USD, and they reckon the same again for fitting by a qualified electrician. Obviously fitting would cost a lot more here.
At that price, it's cheaper than portable battery pack.
What do you think is a reasonable set of goals for mitigating power cuts?The American kit is 300 USD, and they reckon the same again for fitting by a qualified electrician. Obviously fitting would cost a lot more here.
At that price, it's cheaper than portable battery pack.
Personally, if it's just a couple of hours, I'm not much bothered, I can cook on gas and have a battery light or two and a laptop.
Beyond that, I start to think about keeping the fridge cool and the freezer cold.
In the winter the house will start to cool after a few hours.
If I had a V2L car, I'd probably plug the fridge, freezer and a light into it after a couple of hours.
Most difficult thing would be getting to the fridge plug, as it's a built in fridge and the socket is at the back of a cupboard.
Am I ever going to get around to wanting to run the GCH?
If I lived right out in the boondocks of Dartmoor, I'd prepare more.
Where I am, there's limited value in planning for one scenario, which is very unlikely, it's only slightly more unlikely that a different event happens, involving my partner being elsewhere with the EV perhaps.
To be fair, I do own a generator and an inverter and x-amount of 12V stuff, as a hangover from my business, and I'm not gagging to get rid of any of that.
Would most people be better off investing £50 in a camping stove and some flashlights?
The other thing is, if you add complicated circuitry to your house, it becomes a credible risk that your power cut will be due to failure within your house.
Offshore sailors like backup systems that don't share any parts with the systems they're backing up.
We tend to have one or two power cuts each year, mostly because it's all overhead cables and transformers stuck up on poles.
2 hours, not really an issue - we've got a battery pack to keep the Internet going, and a couple of battery-powered lights. Camping stove to make a cuppa, and a stove for heat if necessary.
For longer power cuts, we could get by just running an extension lead from the car, but a hardwired changeover would be easier, and make keeping the fridge, freezer and TV going possible. Maybe the microwave and toaster too.
It would be nice to have proper lighting too.
The worst thing about power cuts is not having regular cups of decent coffee.
I'd be willing to spend a grand or so for a hardwired solution that could be up and running in 5 minutes.
2 hours, not really an issue - we've got a battery pack to keep the Internet going, and a couple of battery-powered lights. Camping stove to make a cuppa, and a stove for heat if necessary.
For longer power cuts, we could get by just running an extension lead from the car, but a hardwired changeover would be easier, and make keeping the fridge, freezer and TV going possible. Maybe the microwave and toaster too.
It would be nice to have proper lighting too.
The worst thing about power cuts is not having regular cups of decent coffee.
I'd be willing to spend a grand or so for a hardwired solution that could be up and running in 5 minutes.
clockworks said:
Battery life is also a concern. I wouldn't want to "wear out" my car battery in 5 or 6 years by powering the whole house from it. Killing the car to save a grand a year wouldn't make sense.
.
VW cars are rated to 4,000 hours or 10,000 kWh. Which if you're just using it to avoid peak time imports on a dynamic tariff is plenty. If you're trying to run solar-off grid then it's a different issue..
clockworks said:
We tend to have one or two power cuts each year, mostly because it's all overhead cables and transformers stuck up on poles.
2 hours, not really an issue - we've got a battery pack to keep the Internet going, and a couple of battery-powered lights. Camping stove to make a cuppa, and a stove for heat if necessary.
For longer power cuts, we could get by just running an extension lead from the car, but a hardwired changeover would be easier, and make keeping the fridge, freezer and TV going possible. Maybe the microwave and toaster too.
It would be nice to have proper lighting too.
The worst thing about power cuts is not having regular cups of decent coffee.
I'd be willing to spend a grand or so for a hardwired solution that could be up and running in 5 minutes.
Problem is, that's a ring main which is rated for more than the V2L, plus other stuff.2 hours, not really an issue - we've got a battery pack to keep the Internet going, and a couple of battery-powered lights. Camping stove to make a cuppa, and a stove for heat if necessary.
For longer power cuts, we could get by just running an extension lead from the car, but a hardwired changeover would be easier, and make keeping the fridge, freezer and TV going possible. Maybe the microwave and toaster too.
It would be nice to have proper lighting too.
The worst thing about power cuts is not having regular cups of decent coffee.
I'd be willing to spend a grand or so for a hardwired solution that could be up and running in 5 minutes.
How does the V2L behave in the event of overload?
How do the UK regs affect the concept of connecting to a supply source that's likely to be overloaded?
I can see a few hundred quid in hardware being needed and a fair slice of labour.
OutInTheShed said:
Problem is, that's a ring main which is rated for more than the V2L, plus other stuff.
How does the V2L behave in the event of overload?
How do the UK regs affect the concept of connecting to a supply source that's likely to be overloaded?
I can see a few hundred quid in hardware being needed and a fair slice of labour.
The V2l van be upto 7kW (32A) on some cars. It's just a current limited supply, so yeah it'll just not deliver more...How does the V2L behave in the event of overload?
How do the UK regs affect the concept of connecting to a supply source that's likely to be overloaded?
I can see a few hundred quid in hardware being needed and a fair slice of labour.
OutInTheShed said:
And LiFePO4 cells are under £80 per kWh now.
You need a few hundred quids worth of electronics to make 'battery' into a 'battery system'.
The system on my mate's boat would cost about £2k now and would run my house's electrical needs for a day or two.
Apparently, you can get a fully fitted (and approved) solar panel and battery system for £5k or so?
The playing field has changed a lot in the last couple of years!
The killer though is that it costs about a grand to get a sparks with the right papers to do a straightforward job like changing a consumer unit.
Getting a more complex system sorted and certificated when it's not 'run of the mill' is going to cost.
Meanwhile, I can be online watching internet TV on my ipad with my 12V fridge on my boat.
The appeal of using the car is that it's a sunk cost rental that's just sitting there doing bugger all all day despite being paid. You need a few hundred quids worth of electronics to make 'battery' into a 'battery system'.
The system on my mate's boat would cost about £2k now and would run my house's electrical needs for a day or two.
Apparently, you can get a fully fitted (and approved) solar panel and battery system for £5k or so?
The playing field has changed a lot in the last couple of years!
The killer though is that it costs about a grand to get a sparks with the right papers to do a straightforward job like changing a consumer unit.
Getting a more complex system sorted and certificated when it's not 'run of the mill' is going to cost.
Meanwhile, I can be online watching internet TV on my ipad with my 12V fridge on my boat.
Forking out £5k to save £1.50 and just so the rental can carry on doing f
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