How to avoid missing out on a house.

[John3l]

We’ve been on the hunt to move house for 4 or 5 years now. Viewed umpteen houses.

Just over a year ago we offered £30k above asking price on a house and lost out to someone who paid the asking price but was in a position to move without selling.

We viewed a house on Friday and made an offer in person to the estate agent before leaving the viewing. This time the offer is only £10k over, but we’ve been creative so as to not require the sale of our current house first.

The seller (executor) has told the estate agent she’ll need to speak with her sister, and I was expecting to hear back yesterday but haven’t heard anything.

I don’t know what to do. We’ll do whatever it takes to secure the sale. Estate Agent say they have another block of viewings booked tomorrow, ideally I want the sale secured and for those viewings not to go ahead.

I intend to phone tomorrow and offer an additional £10k to take the house off the market and if they’re not in a rush, and can wait for us to sell our existing house then we can offer considerably more again.

I feel like it would be so much easier if we could deal directly with the owner rather than having to go through the estate agent.

Should I write a personal letter which the estate agent can forward to the owner? Detailing that it’s our dream house and that our lives feel like they are on hold waiting for this move.

Any advice appreciated.

[PhilboSE]

The agent has a duty to get the best price for the seller. So with a bunch of viewings booked straight after launch, and an initial offer over asking, they’ll be rubbing their hands. It’s down to the sellers to decide, but the agents wil have told them to “bank” your offer, see out the booked viewings knowing they can already tell potential buyers they have an offer over already, and try drive up interest and go into an auction process asap.

Not what you want to hear I’m afraid but there’s very little you can do. About your only gambit is to say, “here is our offer, take it or leave it, but if you don’t take it today then we won’t be proceeding any further”. That tries to force the seller into taking the bird in the hand, but you have to be prepared to either walk away if they don’t take it today, or look like a chimp and go back on your word. Forcing tactics don’t usually endear you to sellers either.

Complicated in your situation will be that it’s a probate and with multiple parties involved there’s always going to be a beneficiary (or spouse of a beneficiary) with dollar signs flashing who want to squeeze every last penny out of Granny’s house, so they’ll lean towards trying to get more, better, offers.

Sorry but in this situation the seller holds all the cards and the agent will be advising them to go through the next set of viewings to try and get another party interested. At least it should all be over quickly because the agents will be thinking about getting their commission for the least amount of work, so they’ll be pushing the sellers to see if there’s another better offer to be flushed out in the short term, but if not, to take your offer.

It’s unusual in the current market to get offers over (it’s generally still a buyers market) so you might be lucky.

[Pit Pony]

I can't help but my thoughts are with you.

[LooneyTunes]

PhilboSE said:

Not what you want to hear I’m afraid but there’s very little you can do. About your only gambit is to say, “here is our offer, take it or leave it, but if you don’t take it today then we won’t be proceeding any further”. That tries to force the seller into taking the bird in the hand, but you have to be prepared to either walk away if they don’t take it today, or look like a chimp and go back on your word. Forcing tactics don’t usually endear you to sellers either.

Complicated in your situation will be that it’s a probate and with multiple parties involved there’s always going to be a beneficiary (or spouse of a beneficiary) with dollar signs flashing who want to squeeze every last penny out of Granny’s house, so they’ll lean towards trying to get more, better, offers.

Sorry but in this situation the seller holds all the cards and the agent will be advising them to go through the next set of viewings to try and get another party interested. At least it should all be over quickly because the agents will be thinking about getting their commission for the least amount of work, so they’ll be pushing the sellers to see if there’s another better offer to be flushed out in the short term, but if not, to take your offer.

Would broadly agree, but the OP can show that he’s serious.

Putting an offer on the table is one thing. It takes virtually no effort.

Showing you’ve got your ducks in a row take a bit more. For example, being able to tell the agent which solicitors* will act for you, that you have a surveyor lined up and ready to inspect as soon as the offer is accepted can make a difference.

• I’d ask the agent for advice on which ones he’d recommend. Who cares if there’s a backhander: it’ll be less than the £10k extra you’re looking to throw at it but, more importantly, you’ll be seen as making the agent’s life easier by working with a known quantity.

I reckon the above would count for more than a letter to the vendor saying how much you want the house.

[dobly]

If you can do some detective work and find out the names of the family that lived in the house and write a letter to them, this may appeal to the (presumably family) executor. Say that you have fallen in love with the house and want to make memories for your family in their old house, that you are keen to not mess them about, that you want as quick and easy purchase / sale for them etc. Might do the trick, what have you got to lose?
Additionally, if you can put your current place on the market ASAP, get your solicitor and finances sorted, you should be in quite a good position, though not as good as having sold your place already,.

Edited by dobly on Monday 12th May 06:43

[JQ]

dobly said:

Additionally, if you can put your current place on the market ASAP, get your solicitor and finances sorted, you should be in quite a good position, though not as good as having sold your place already,.

Edited by dobly on Monday 12th May 06:43

If someone made a cash offer for a house I was selling and put their house on the market straight after the offer I’d not believe they were a cash buyer.

[Sheepshanks]

LooneyTunes said:

Would broadly agree, but the OP can show that he’s serious.

Putting an offer on the table is one thing. It takes virtually no effort.
Showing you’ve got your ducks in a row take a bit more. For example, being able to tell the agent which solicitors* will act for you, that you have a surveyor lined up and ready to inspect as soon as the offer is accepted can make a difference.

Sold late FILs place right after the first COVID lockdown. There was a flurry (but not massive as no-one knew what the market was going to do at that point) of interest and the agent (without asking us) quickly went to best and final offers.

The agent said a simple offer is worthless and in the end there were only three the agent considered to be valid, and they were all for the asking price. Agent had told us they expected the house to go for £10K or more over OIEO £300K.

They steered towards one buyer (a downsizing older couple) as they were the only one to provide proof of funds, name of solicitor, confirmation they weren’t in a chain (apparently otherwise the agent does a “chain check” - if everyone in the chain isn’t sold then again an offer is pretty meaningless), they said they wouldn’t be having a survey (I was relieved about that as on a 60yr old house there plenty of minor things that would frighten younger buyers) and they also showed they were on deadline to get out of their rental they’d been in since selling their own house.

The Agent did seem to have given a bit of help to try and get one younger couple to the right place but then it turned their own sale had fallen through.

There was no delay on our part to try to get more out of it - priority was to get shut of it ASAP, and the money was being split multiple ways so hanging on for another £10K wouldn’t make much difference, although I have experience of this going the other way ( and it cost the sellers dearly as they missed the post COVID peak). Sale was complete in 7 weeks (buyer had wanted 6).

[wyson]

I know many people sell their house and start renting, before they try to buy another. Not being in a chain could help you.

So many people I’ve known have been stuck in chains 5, 10 houses deep. If 1 link in that for some reason gets delayed or pulls out, can impact everyone. One of my friends got stuck in a chain for 18 months. Was pretty stressful for him, all that waiting.

The English system is ridiculous, to put so much onus on the buyer doing due diligence. Scotland has it right, to put that responsibility on the seller, to get a pack together before the sale to speed things up for everyone.

Edited by wyson on Monday 12th May 10:10

[OutInTheShed]

John3l said:

We’ve been on the hunt to move house for 4 or 5 years now. Viewed umpteen houses.

Just over a year ago we offered £30k above asking price on a house and lost out to someone who paid the asking price but was in a position to move without selling.

We viewed a house on Friday and made an offer in person to the estate agent before leaving the viewing. This time the offer is only £10k over, but we’ve been creative so as to not require the sale of our current house first.

The seller (executor) has told the estate agent she’ll need to speak with her sister, and I was expecting to hear back yesterday but haven’t heard anything.

I don’t know what to do. We’ll do whatever it takes to secure the sale. Estate Agent say they have another block of viewings booked tomorrow, ideally I want the sale secured and for those viewings not to go ahead.

I intend to phone tomorrow and offer an additional £10k to take the house off the market and if they’re not in a rush, and can wait for us to sell our existing house then we can offer considerably more again.

I feel like it would be so much easier if we could deal directly with the owner rather than having to go through the estate agent.

Should I write a personal letter which the estate agent can forward to the owner? Detailing that it’s our dream house and that our lives feel like they are on hold waiting for this move.

Any advice appreciated.

An offer from someone who needs to sell, and doesn't have a 'ready to go' buyer lined up is just vague words about intentions.
If you can proceed without selling, then your offer is good.

Personally I would not let the sellers know you'd pay more if you'd sold your house.
Better to let them think they are getting what it's worth.

Probate sellers often want to sell fairly quickly, it is expensive and painful having an unused, unwanted house.
They generally won't want to be hanging around in a chain situation.

The market is different in different parts of the country, here in Devon, it is a buyers market in some price segments.

Ultimately, unless you are happy to pay way more than the house is worth, you can't be sure of securing a particular house until contracts are exchanged.
Likewise the seller has not secured a deal until that point.
Personally when selling, I've become wary of people offering too much, getting too emotionally involved too quickly, or complicating matters by trying to change the process. These people often seem to get cold feet before sealing the deal, or start to believe they're paying too much and try chipping the price after the house is off the market.
The estate agent is doing his job by conducting more viewings.
With the best will in the world, you might pull out after getting a survey, doing some research, finding something better etc.
Some of those viewing might have been booked ages ago, some might be people who are not serious about that particular house.
The agent might also be using the place to convince punters of the value or desirability of another place.
Serious punters are valuable to an agent, they will want to show them lots of houses to sell them one.

They also want to convince the seller that enough people have viewed the place and the price is right. If you start making wild offers, the seller will wonder if the agent has underpriced the house.

Before committing to an offer, as a seller, I'd want sight of proof of the buyer's funds.
Asking to meet the vendor in a second viewing can be good.

If you've been seriously looking for over 4 years, able to proceed, then maybe you are wanting the moon on a stick?
There are a lot of houses to choose from, it has to be a special case to need to wait 4 years?
I do know people who are playing that kind of long game, e.g. there are a couple of houses in my little town which a certain bloke will 99% certain buy if they come on the market before he either dies or ends up in jail.

[PhilboSE]

LooneyTunes said:

PhilboSE said:

Not what you want to hear I’m afraid but there’s very little you can do. About your only gambit is to say, “here is our offer, take it or leave it, but if you don’t take it today then we won’t be proceeding any further”. That tries to force the seller into taking the bird in the hand, but you have to be prepared to either walk away if they don’t take it today, or look like a chimp and go back on your word. Forcing tactics don’t usually endear you to sellers either.

Complicated in your situation will be that it’s a probate and with multiple parties involved there’s always going to be a beneficiary (or spouse of a beneficiary) with dollar signs flashing who want to squeeze every last penny out of Granny’s house, so they’ll lean towards trying to get more, better, offers.

Sorry but in this situation the seller holds all the cards and the agent will be advising them to go through the next set of viewings to try and get another party interested. At least it should all be over quickly because the agents will be thinking about getting their commission for the least amount of work, so they’ll be pushing the sellers to see if there’s another better offer to be flushed out in the short term, but if not, to take your offer.

Would broadly agree, but the OP can show that he’s serious.

Putting an offer on the table is one thing. It takes virtually no effort.

Showing you’ve got your ducks in a row take a bit more. For example, being able to tell the agent which solicitors* will act for you, that you have a surveyor lined up and ready to inspect as soon as the offer is accepted can make a difference.

• I’d ask the agent for advice on which ones he’d recommend. Who cares if there’s a backhander: it’ll be less than the £10k extra you’re looking to throw at it but, more importantly, you’ll be seen as making the agent’s life easier by working with a known quantity.

I reckon the above would count for more than a letter to the vendor saying how much you want the house.

That’s true, but it affects quality of one bid over another. The OP wants his offer taken now and off the market, no more viewings. He can tell the agent he’s got a preferred solicitor & surveyor & cash in the bank, but I still expect the agent to go ahead with booked viewings as there may may be someone else in the same boat but prepared to improve on the OP’s offer. That’s an agent’s (and seller’s) dream.

Also going against the OP is that it’s a probate sale, so all it means to the sellers is £££. They don’t have any of the other motivations of sellers, like being able to move quickly to secure their next property. They also know they’re end of chain so only have the length of chain in one side to consider. And now they know the house will sell quickly, so they’ll be pushing to get as much £ for themselves as possible.

[ARHarh]

If I was in the sellers position with an offer on the table and more viewings booked I would not be accepting the offer yet. It would be at least w week before I accepted it in case one of the other viewers decided to offer, or a second viewing. I would however make sure the agent let the "offerer" know that was the situation.

[Cow Corner]

It sounds like deep down, you think that the offer you can make without selling is not going to be competitive. If that’s the case then there is not much you can do other than offer what you can afford and hope for the best.

Probate sales are funny things, because you often have multiple parties involved, who are often more motivated by money, rather than taking the pragmatic view that a normal seller might take if they are trying to get their house sold to secure another one.

I would be staggered if, given the interest, they don’t let all the viewings go ahead - put yourself in their place, why would you do anything different?

I would urge caution on trying to make contact directly - I think many sellers would feel uncomfortable at somebody being that pushy and it may well backfire.

As much as it’s not what you want to hear - I don’t think there’s much more you can do other than put your best offer forwards and be patient. Once you start talking about paying more once you’ve sold, big red lights are going to start flashing in the agents office.

[Jim Spencer]

From personal experience, having to sell a couple of parents houses over the last couple of years and arrange a move for one of them that Had to happen:-

If you want to secure a house purchase you need to be in a position to complete without selling your house, financial flexibility is the key.
To lots of sellers that ability is more important than a few extra £'s, a seller will always take it as a preference, often over and above the money, they are looking for as painless a process as possible and if you can avoid being in a chain then that's worth a lot of £'s..

If you're not in that position then you can pre-arrange bridging finance to put yourself there.

You'd need to have everything ready to go on the sale of your place. Then once you find the house of your dreams you use your cash and bridging offer to secure the purchase 'cash buyer / no chain'.
You then hit the market quickly with the sale of your place - keenly priced..
If you're able to get a quick sale done before the purchase completes you might avoid the use of the bridge anyhow.. If not it's cost you a good few quid in bridging loan, but you've got what you want..

[omniflow]

Get a second viewing booked. Whilst you might be certain about the house after one viewing, the vast majority of people aren't. Get the second viewing booked and try and make that viewing about practicalities and not emotions.

Now, apologies if this is dragging up things you'd rather not think about, but how on earth have you been trying to move for 4 - 5 years? We've been trying for 2 months and I'm already climbing the walls. How have you coped for 4 - 5 years?

[Cheib]

Writing letters sounds good but it won’t work. We had two buyers put letters through the door when we sold our flat in London quite a few years ago….made no difference to who we sold to if I am honest.

Being ready to exchange with “less moving parts” is definitely a plus.

When we bought our current house it went to sealed bids before it was even listed on the agents website. I offered to pay a deposit to show commitment as soon as offer accepted….not a full deposit but enough to make sure the seller knew we were serious.

We once tried to buy a house that was being sold through probate it was a bit of a nightmare….went to sealed bids and took weeks (instead of 24 hours) for them to tell us we’d lost out. I think there were brown envelopes involved.

[Muzzer79]

John3l said:

We’ve been on the hunt to move house for 4 or 5 years now. Viewed umpteen houses.

Just over a year ago we offered £30k above asking price on a house and lost out to someone who paid the asking price but was in a position to move without selling.

We viewed a house on Friday and made an offer in person to the estate agent before leaving the viewing. This time the offer is only £10k over, but we’ve been creative so as to not require the sale of our current house first.

The seller (executor) has told the estate agent she’ll need to speak with her sister, and I was expecting to hear back yesterday but haven’t heard anything.

I don’t know what to do. We’ll do whatever it takes to secure the sale. Estate Agent say they have another block of viewings booked tomorrow, ideally I want the sale secured and for those viewings not to go ahead.

I intend to phone tomorrow and offer an additional £10k to take the house off the market and if they’re not in a rush, and can wait for us to sell our existing house then we can offer considerably more again.

I feel like it would be so much easier if we could deal directly with the owner rather than having to go through the estate agent.

Should I write a personal letter which the estate agent can forward to the owner? Detailing that it’s our dream house and that our lives feel like they are on hold waiting for this move.

Any advice appreciated.

If you offered me £10k over the asking price and then another £10k the following day, I would totally see what other offers are coming through before taking the house off the market.

I appreciate that you want to secure the house, but you can appear too keen.

All you can do is emphasise to the agent how keen you are, your buying position and the fact that you will do whatever is necessary to secure a fast and smooth deal.
Aside from that, it's up to the seller.

The letter idea might work if they're sentimental. It wouldn't hold any sway with me if I were selling the house.

[Sheepshanks]

Cheib said:

Writing letters sounds good but it won’t work.

It worked for someone on here, and I think he had to sell his own house first.

It got us engaged with family selling a probate house in our village but they messed around for months and by then the post Covid bubble was bursting and we’d started on our refurb that was already booked when the old guy died.. I reckon they lost at least £50K, possibly £100K, vs just getting it sold quickly.

[sugerbear]

Sell your house.
Rent.
Buy house.
Or find a different area to buy in.

I have made offers in the past for the full asking price but it has always been on the priviso that the house is no longer marketed. Offering £10k over the asking price and letting them continue to market the property is (and sorry to be harsh) dumb. You have just given the agent the perfect marketing tool to get another buyer on board who will know your price and then can gazump you and then the agent will come back and say " they have offered £20k over asking.. and so you then enter into a bidding war where you will overpay. You are not doing yourself any favours in offering more than the agents are asking if there is nothing being offered in return.

My advice is either to offer the full asking price and say that it's on the assumption that it will no longer be marketed and I have always said "I want to complete in one month" knowing full well that solicitors and estate agents will never make this date but it does show commitment. and then keep ringing them and chasing them to get updates and keep youself top of mind.

At worst they will say no to the marketing request (in which case you can make a lower offer and let that sit on the table) and they get more people in that either dont like it or make offeres and it goes to sealed bids.

By offering something over the offer price you have just invited other people to outbid you with nothing in return.

[LooneyTunes]

PhilboSE said:

That’s true, but it affects quality of one bid over another. The OP wants his offer taken now and off the market, no more viewings. He can tell the agent he’s got a preferred solicitor & surveyor & cash in the bank, but I still expect the agent to go ahead with booked viewings as there may may be someone else in the same boat but prepared to improve on the OP’s offer. That’s an agent’s (and seller’s) dream.

Also going against the OP is that it’s a probate sale, so all it means to the sellers is £££. They don’t have any of the other motivations of sellers, like being able to move quickly to secure their next property. They also know they’re end of chain so only have the length of chain in one side to consider. And now they know the house will sell quickly, so they’ll be pushing to get as much £ for themselves as possible.

Sometimes its about the money, sometimes it is about getting rid and moving on. Where probate sales are a nightmare is if there are multiple beneficiaries and one doesn't want to "give it away" and will risk the sale for an extra few £k (of which they'll only get a fraction).

Ultimately agents want a simple transaction. A sale at £10k more might net them an extra couple of hundred quid if it happens. They will often push a lower bid if it's demonstrably more likely to go through... failed transactions really hammer their costs and profit.

[omniflow]

Sorry - one more thing.

Do not, under any circumstances, try and bypass the Estate Agent. You'll just look dodgy, and you'll piss the EA off completely, who will then do everything in their power to undermine you.

By all means ask to meet the vendors, but as it's a probate sale they might not be interested.

We are currently selling and when we finally get a decent offer on the table I will be keen to meet the prospective purchasers - mainly to try and gauge how likely they are to try and dick around later in the process. However, this is only my personal preference.