The mysterious case of the missing oil
Discussion
Long time lurker here.
I've got a 2015 Vanquish Volante which we bought March 2024 from a main dealer (MD) who will remain anonymous but is not in Kent
The day after we collected it, the weather was a little cooler than on collection. I found raising the rear quarter window popped off the decorative silver trim which runs across the top of the rear wing panel. It was repeatable so I videoed it and sent it to the main dealer.
They responded exactly as I hoped they would and ordered a replacement trim from Aston which was on back order.
I managed to subtly reshape the trim piece, rebonded the stainless spiggot which positioned the rubber trim and applied a bit of silicone grease which actually meant it has behaved 100% ever since.
Wind the clock forwards to March 2025 and it was 10year service time.
I elected to have the car serviced at Quantum Works and they completed the service and handbrake pad replacement over a long weekend including a trip out to the MOT centre after service.
The car passed the MOT with flying colours and Quantum Works advised that the car seemed a genuinely good one. No issues reported.
I collected the car from Quantum Works on 11th March, drove the 10.5 miles back home and locked it in the garage from where it has not moved.
Mid March the MD rang to advise that the trim piece had finally arrived from Aston. Nice work Aston... nearly a year to deliver that after much prodding by the MD and me!
The MD collected the car from me in a covered trailer late afternoon on Monday 31st March. I drove the car into the trailer and waved them off.
On the 2nd March I contacted the MD to find out when they would be delivering the car back and was given Monday 7th as the date, which worked fine for me.
On Thursday 3rd April MD service centre sent an email asking if I wanted the car servicing and as a minimum the oil topping up as the oil level light was on and they estimated it was about 2.5 litres low.
I said something along the lines of "What! It's just been serviced!??"
I got a photo from the MD of the warning light on and low oil warning on the dash.
So here's the mystery:-
Since March 2024 the car has done about 3000 miles and has not asked for any oil. On the odd occasions I've looked at the dipstick it has shown the correct level and little inclination to use it.
I drove 10.5 miles from Quantum on 11th March and 100% know the warning light was not on and no oil warning message
I drove the car out of my garage to the trailer on 31st March and 100% know the warning light was not on and no oil warning message
There is no oil on the garage floor.
The MD did not advise that there was 2.5ltrs of oil sloshing around on the trailer floor after they collected it.
And yet somehow the oil light was on by the 3rd April.
The MD clearly did not know that the car had been serviced three weeks prior as it would not be on any of the Aston Martin database
I rang Quantum Works who were equally mystified. They wanted the car back to investigate so on Monday 7th the car was delivered by the MD back to Quantum Works.
They took the undertrays off and poked around everywhere. No oil to be seen anywhere (other than at low level on the dipstick).
They drained the oil and established that it was (amazingly) about 2.5 litres short at 9.5 litres
They put that oil back in and added another 1.5 litres, to give a total of 11 litres at which point the oil warning light goes out.
They added another 1 litre of oil to put it back to 12 litres. Oil light out, dipstick at correct level.
Took it for a test drive, retested.
Left it overnight retested.
Quantum Works declined to take any money for oil or their time and even dropped the car off at my house early on Tuesday 8th April. So they are totally coming up smelling of roses on this episode.
I know what I think happened! You don't exactly have to be Hercule Poirot!
Does this experience at an Aston MD ring true with anyone else out there??
I'm not gonna name and shame here. PM me if you'd like to share anything more juicy.
I'm inclined to take this further and wondered if anyone else has similar experience to throw more fuel on that fire?
I've got a 2015 Vanquish Volante which we bought March 2024 from a main dealer (MD) who will remain anonymous but is not in Kent
The day after we collected it, the weather was a little cooler than on collection. I found raising the rear quarter window popped off the decorative silver trim which runs across the top of the rear wing panel. It was repeatable so I videoed it and sent it to the main dealer.
They responded exactly as I hoped they would and ordered a replacement trim from Aston which was on back order.
I managed to subtly reshape the trim piece, rebonded the stainless spiggot which positioned the rubber trim and applied a bit of silicone grease which actually meant it has behaved 100% ever since.
Wind the clock forwards to March 2025 and it was 10year service time.
I elected to have the car serviced at Quantum Works and they completed the service and handbrake pad replacement over a long weekend including a trip out to the MOT centre after service.
The car passed the MOT with flying colours and Quantum Works advised that the car seemed a genuinely good one. No issues reported.
I collected the car from Quantum Works on 11th March, drove the 10.5 miles back home and locked it in the garage from where it has not moved.
Mid March the MD rang to advise that the trim piece had finally arrived from Aston. Nice work Aston... nearly a year to deliver that after much prodding by the MD and me!
The MD collected the car from me in a covered trailer late afternoon on Monday 31st March. I drove the car into the trailer and waved them off.
On the 2nd March I contacted the MD to find out when they would be delivering the car back and was given Monday 7th as the date, which worked fine for me.
On Thursday 3rd April MD service centre sent an email asking if I wanted the car servicing and as a minimum the oil topping up as the oil level light was on and they estimated it was about 2.5 litres low.
I said something along the lines of "What! It's just been serviced!??"
I got a photo from the MD of the warning light on and low oil warning on the dash.
So here's the mystery:-
Since March 2024 the car has done about 3000 miles and has not asked for any oil. On the odd occasions I've looked at the dipstick it has shown the correct level and little inclination to use it.
I drove 10.5 miles from Quantum on 11th March and 100% know the warning light was not on and no oil warning message
I drove the car out of my garage to the trailer on 31st March and 100% know the warning light was not on and no oil warning message
There is no oil on the garage floor.
The MD did not advise that there was 2.5ltrs of oil sloshing around on the trailer floor after they collected it.
And yet somehow the oil light was on by the 3rd April.
The MD clearly did not know that the car had been serviced three weeks prior as it would not be on any of the Aston Martin database
I rang Quantum Works who were equally mystified. They wanted the car back to investigate so on Monday 7th the car was delivered by the MD back to Quantum Works.
They took the undertrays off and poked around everywhere. No oil to be seen anywhere (other than at low level on the dipstick).
They drained the oil and established that it was (amazingly) about 2.5 litres short at 9.5 litres
They put that oil back in and added another 1.5 litres, to give a total of 11 litres at which point the oil warning light goes out.
They added another 1 litre of oil to put it back to 12 litres. Oil light out, dipstick at correct level.
Took it for a test drive, retested.
Left it overnight retested.
Quantum Works declined to take any money for oil or their time and even dropped the car off at my house early on Tuesday 8th April. So they are totally coming up smelling of roses on this episode.
I know what I think happened! You don't exactly have to be Hercule Poirot!
Does this experience at an Aston MD ring true with anyone else out there??
I'm not gonna name and shame here. PM me if you'd like to share anything more juicy.
I'm inclined to take this further and wondered if anyone else has similar experience to throw more fuel on that fire?
If an MD drains out some oil trying to justify work needed, that is more than just foolish.
Computer AM records might show overdue service, but there is always the possibility, as you have described, that an independent is looking after the car, and/or an owner is regularly monitoring the dipstick.
Unless they used it for a bit of fun and ragged it mercilessly? The V12s can use oil, though that's a considerable amount.
My own experience is an MD that put over a litre too much oil in a VH V8. Another MD discovered and rectified, original MD claimed it couldn't possibly happen. I'll never know what really went on. Perhaps I sleep walked and put it in myself ...
My own experience is an MD that put over a litre too much oil in a VH V8. Another MD discovered and rectified, original MD claimed it couldn't possibly happen. I'll never know what really went on. Perhaps I sleep walked and put it in myself ...
Umm.....
The only way mechanically the oil can go and no one will see it is in the airfilters, if the PCV system is faulty, and they do go faulty after a while (your car is 10 years old) the crankcase positive pressure will push oil into the inlet manifolds and down into both of the airfilters, but you'll have to drive it for a while for the engine to push 2.5 liters into the airfilters.
Maybe when it was serviced they filled it abit low together with maybe a PCV system issue you may have some oil soaked into the airfilters causing the oil light to come on?? plus it's quite common dealers don't check or replace airfilters (i don't know why it's very easy to do after removing the undertray/wheel liners)
This has caused catastrophic damage to some V12 engines as cylinders 6 & 12 at the rear of the engine at the end of the oil circuit to get starved of oil and self destruct.
Have you got any service history the coils/sparkplugs have been replaced?? some garages also replace the PCV valves at the same time.
Get the car on a ramp and remove the airfilter covers, if clean and dry then someone is lying to you.
i stopped trusting dealers years ago and have serviced my DB9 at home for years, I have a 2 post lift and all facilities in my garage.
The only way mechanically the oil can go and no one will see it is in the airfilters, if the PCV system is faulty, and they do go faulty after a while (your car is 10 years old) the crankcase positive pressure will push oil into the inlet manifolds and down into both of the airfilters, but you'll have to drive it for a while for the engine to push 2.5 liters into the airfilters.
Maybe when it was serviced they filled it abit low together with maybe a PCV system issue you may have some oil soaked into the airfilters causing the oil light to come on?? plus it's quite common dealers don't check or replace airfilters (i don't know why it's very easy to do after removing the undertray/wheel liners)
This has caused catastrophic damage to some V12 engines as cylinders 6 & 12 at the rear of the engine at the end of the oil circuit to get starved of oil and self destruct.
Have you got any service history the coils/sparkplugs have been replaced?? some garages also replace the PCV valves at the same time.
Get the car on a ramp and remove the airfilter covers, if clean and dry then someone is lying to you.
i stopped trusting dealers years ago and have serviced my DB9 at home for years, I have a 2 post lift and all facilities in my garage.
Edited by paulrog1 on Wednesday 9th April 18:27
paulrog1 said:
Umm.....
The only way mechanically the oil can go and no one will see it is in the airfilters, if the PCV system is faulty, and they do go faulty after a while (your car is 10 years old) the crankcase positive pressure will push oil into the inlet manifolds and down into both of the airfilters, but you'll have to drive it for a while for the engine to push 2.5 liters into the airfilters.
Maybe when it was serviced they filled it abit low together with maybe a PCV system issue you may have some oil soaked into the airfilters causing the oil light to come on?? plus it's quite common dealers don't check or replace airfilters (i don't know why it's very easy to do after removing the undertray/wheel liners)
This has caused catastrophic damage to some V12 engines as cylinders 6 & 12 at the rear of the engine at the end of the oil circuit to get starved of oil and self destruct.
Have you got any service history the coils/sparkplugs have been replaced?? some garages also replace the PCV valves at the same time.
Get the car on a ramp and remove the airfilter covers, if clean and dry then someone is lying to you.
i stopped trusting dealers years ago and have serviced my DB9 at home for years, I have a 2 post lift and all facilities in my garage.
While I appreciate your suggestion I think there are enough pointers to discount that as a reason.The only way mechanically the oil can go and no one will see it is in the airfilters, if the PCV system is faulty, and they do go faulty after a while (your car is 10 years old) the crankcase positive pressure will push oil into the inlet manifolds and down into both of the airfilters, but you'll have to drive it for a while for the engine to push 2.5 liters into the airfilters.
Maybe when it was serviced they filled it abit low together with maybe a PCV system issue you may have some oil soaked into the airfilters causing the oil light to come on?? plus it's quite common dealers don't check or replace airfilters (i don't know why it's very easy to do after removing the undertray/wheel liners)
This has caused catastrophic damage to some V12 engines as cylinders 6 & 12 at the rear of the engine at the end of the oil circuit to get starved of oil and self destruct.
Have you got any service history the coils/sparkplugs have been replaced?? some garages also replace the PCV valves at the same time.
Get the car on a ramp and remove the airfilter covers, if clean and dry then someone is lying to you.
i stopped trusting dealers years ago and have serviced my DB9 at home for years, I have a 2 post lift and all facilities in my garage.
Edited by paulrog1 on Wednesday 9th April 18:27
The Air filters were changed at the service March 9th 2025. I saw the old ones and they were not oily.
The car had only driven 10.51 miles from the point of service 11th March 2025 and when it left me had no oil light on.
It would have had to lose 1.5 litres of oil into the filters in the process of removing the car from the trailer into the MD to explain that. (ie from a suggested underfill of just over 11 litres which would leave the oil light off, to the point that 9.5 litres were measured out and the oil light showing)
The car showed zero inclination to use any oil in the previous year/3000 miles.
Simpo Two said:
After my car's last service the oil level was significantly above 'max' and still is 4,000 miles later.
I thought 'significantly above max' needs immediate action to lower the oil level.
Have you really driven 4,000 miles, knowing that the engine oil level significantly exceeds the maximum ?
Simpo Two said:
The simplest explanation is that Quantum Works didn't put enough oil in.
After my car's last service the oil level was significantly above 'max' and still is 4,000 miles later.
(what colour is your car?)
No it isn't. That would have resulted in the oil light being on after I collected the car from them and also before I put it in the MD trailerAfter my car's last service the oil level was significantly above 'max' and still is 4,000 miles later.
(what colour is your car?)
Volcano red
CoolHands said:
Are you saying you did 3000 miles between the 11th and 31st March?
Most likely the servicing dealer under filled it.
No I'm saying we did 3000 miles between March 2024 and March 2025 with no oil consumed,Most likely the servicing dealer under filled it.
Car is serviced 11th March 2025. No oil light for 10.5 miles and 3 weeks
Car is trailered to MD and suddenly it's short of 2.5 litres of oil with the light on reported 3 days after it gets there.
AstonV12V said:
While I appreciate your suggestion I think there are enough pointers to discount that as a reason.
The Air filters were changed at the service March 9th 2025. I saw the old ones and they were not oily.
The car had only driven 10.51 miles from the point of service 11th March 2025 and when it left me had no oil light on.
It would have had to lose 1.5 litres of oil into the filters in the process of removing the car from the trailer into the MD to explain that. (ie from a suggested underfill of just over 11 litres which would leave the oil light off, to 9the point that 9.5 litres were measured out and the oil light showing)
The car showed zero inclination to use any oil in the previous year/3000 miles.
I have to support Simpo here, unless I’ve missed something. To summarise: after Quantum serviced your car it did less than 11 miles before being trailered to the MD in question for a trim part. The MD contacted you and asked if you wanted it servicing, or at least the oil topping up as they informed you the oil warning light was on. No oil was added, the car was trailered back to Quantum who found it was 2.5 litres short of oil. The tone of your post implies (to me) that you think the MD drained off the missing oil, and you are inclined to take the matter further.The Air filters were changed at the service March 9th 2025. I saw the old ones and they were not oily.
The car had only driven 10.51 miles from the point of service 11th March 2025 and when it left me had no oil light on.
It would have had to lose 1.5 litres of oil into the filters in the process of removing the car from the trailer into the MD to explain that. (ie from a suggested underfill of just over 11 litres which would leave the oil light off, to 9the point that 9.5 litres were measured out and the oil light showing)
The car showed zero inclination to use any oil in the previous year/3000 miles.
Logically, there can only be three possible explanations:
- The car was correctly serviced, and the car used, leaked or threw out 2.5 litres of oil in 11 miles
- The correct amount if oil was never added
- Some oil was removed between the Quantum service and the MD contacting you
Other than the car showing no oil light for 11 miles, you seem to have no evidence that the car was correctly filled at service so I’ve seen no evidence that you can rule out No. 2.
No. 3 seems highly unlikely. Why would they? For the profit from a service? To sell you a quart of oil? Again, there is no evidence (other than it seems completely outlandish) to absolutely rule out No. 3.
Where does this leave you? With no absolute proof I don’t think you have any chance in taking the matter further. I’d predict that if you accuse either Quantum of under-filling or the MD of part-draining you’d get a flat denial. Which brings me to the use of Occam’s Razor - which is the most likely explanation? In my opinion - the oil was never there.
One more small point - I believe the 2015 Vanquish “oil level” warning only operates when the car is stationary, level, and the oil is within a certain temperature range (plus there are a couple of other conditions). If I’m right, it is possible the car might not electronically detect a low oil level that using the dipstick might show.
For the avoidance if doubt I have no connection with the AML MD network
Typo fixed
Edited by LTP on Thursday 10th April 00:06
The following may explain why it most likely was under filled in the first place…
From your owner’s manual:
This vehicle has an electronic engine Oil Level Sensing (OLS) system which records the engine oil level each time the fuel tank is filled with 25 liters or more of fuel. The system may not record an oil level if the engine oil temperature is low or if the time to refuel is not sufficient for a consistent oil level to be recorded.
From your owner’s manual:
This vehicle has an electronic engine Oil Level Sensing (OLS) system which records the engine oil level each time the fuel tank is filled with 25 liters or more of fuel. The system may not record an oil level if the engine oil temperature is low or if the time to refuel is not sufficient for a consistent oil level to be recorded.
Just my thoughts for the thread as everyone prettynmuch on the same page as I.
1. Underfilling, yes possible but seems unlikely, they know these cars and would put the amount required, I am hoping they use specialist measuring equipment, but in absence of that I'm sure they would have counted the empty bottles.... aside of the OP did state he checks the dip stick, if this was missing 2.5l I would have thoughtbit would register bellow min on the dip stick?
2. MD straining the oil... again that just seems illogical but not unprobabble. Even if the technician thought the car was in for service accidently and started the process, the car would been empty of the whole 12l... I suspect they would not put that oil back in and surely would not only top up with 9l butnthe full prescribed amount? Raises the question why not to the full spec? Perhaps mistakes have been made and unfortunately in this day and age people do not own up to these.
My conclusions: perhaps the issue happened in QW, but I have dealt with them and they were really good. It's their business and being so careless would kill it, thus I suspect they would have tripple if not quadripple checked before handing the car over. They also do not have 100 technicians so the margin of error would be less. Again not impossible but doubts eleimented through OP checking oil after the fact. So per SH "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" which leaves me with some error being with MD or transportation.
I sincerely hope that there have been no damage made to the motor as it been largely stationary, and hope that you can continue enjoying the car, after this incident or even be in a position to get some truth out.
Good luck
1. Underfilling, yes possible but seems unlikely, they know these cars and would put the amount required, I am hoping they use specialist measuring equipment, but in absence of that I'm sure they would have counted the empty bottles.... aside of the OP did state he checks the dip stick, if this was missing 2.5l I would have thoughtbit would register bellow min on the dip stick?
2. MD straining the oil... again that just seems illogical but not unprobabble. Even if the technician thought the car was in for service accidently and started the process, the car would been empty of the whole 12l... I suspect they would not put that oil back in and surely would not only top up with 9l butnthe full prescribed amount? Raises the question why not to the full spec? Perhaps mistakes have been made and unfortunately in this day and age people do not own up to these.
My conclusions: perhaps the issue happened in QW, but I have dealt with them and they were really good. It's their business and being so careless would kill it, thus I suspect they would have tripple if not quadripple checked before handing the car over. They also do not have 100 technicians so the margin of error would be less. Again not impossible but doubts eleimented through OP checking oil after the fact. So per SH "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" which leaves me with some error being with MD or transportation.
I sincerely hope that there have been no damage made to the motor as it been largely stationary, and hope that you can continue enjoying the car, after this incident or even be in a position to get some truth out.
Good luck
filski said:
Just my thoughts for the thread as everyone prettynmuch on the same page as I.
1. Underfilling, yes possible but seems unlikely, they know these cars and would put the amount required, I am hoping they use specialist measuring equipment, but in absence of that I'm sure they would have counted the empty bottles.... aside of the OP did state he checks the dip stick, if this was missing 2.5l I would have thoughtbit would register bellow min on the dip stick?
2. MD straining the oil... again that just seems illogical but not unprobabble. Even if the technician thought the car was in for service accidently and started the process, the car would been empty of the whole 12l... I suspect they would not put that oil back in and surely would not only top up with 9l butnthe full prescribed amount? Raises the question why not to the full spec? Perhaps mistakes have been made and unfortunately in this day and age people do not own up to these.
My conclusions: perhaps the issue happened in QW, but I have dealt with them and they were really good. It's their business and being so careless would kill it, thus I suspect they would have tripple if not quadripple checked before handing the car over. They also do not have 100 technicians so the margin of error would be less. Again not impossible but doubts eliminated through OP checking oil after the fact. So per SH "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" which leaves me with some error being with MD or transportation.
I sincerely hope that there have been no damage made to the motor as it been largely stationary, and hope that you can continue enjoying the car, after this incident or even be in a position to get some truth out.
Good luck
Yep. QW underfilling seems highly unlikely. Prior to the service and this issue occurring they went to great lengths to tell me that filling Vanquishes can take time and they always leave the car overnight prior to signing off the correct oil level on the dipstick.1. Underfilling, yes possible but seems unlikely, they know these cars and would put the amount required, I am hoping they use specialist measuring equipment, but in absence of that I'm sure they would have counted the empty bottles.... aside of the OP did state he checks the dip stick, if this was missing 2.5l I would have thoughtbit would register bellow min on the dip stick?
2. MD straining the oil... again that just seems illogical but not unprobabble. Even if the technician thought the car was in for service accidently and started the process, the car would been empty of the whole 12l... I suspect they would not put that oil back in and surely would not only top up with 9l butnthe full prescribed amount? Raises the question why not to the full spec? Perhaps mistakes have been made and unfortunately in this day and age people do not own up to these.
My conclusions: perhaps the issue happened in QW, but I have dealt with them and they were really good. It's their business and being so careless would kill it, thus I suspect they would have tripple if not quadripple checked before handing the car over. They also do not have 100 technicians so the margin of error would be less. Again not impossible but doubts eliminated through OP checking oil after the fact. So per SH "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" which leaves me with some error being with MD or transportation.
I sincerely hope that there have been no damage made to the motor as it been largely stationary, and hope that you can continue enjoying the car, after this incident or even be in a position to get some truth out.
Good luck
Given that they put this much attention into the process I'd say there is no chance of it being underfilled by them.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
The following may explain why it most likely was under filled in the first place…
From your owner’s manual:
This vehicle has an electronic engine Oil Level Sensing (OLS) system which records the engine oil level each time the fuel tank is filled with 25 liters or more of fuel. The system may not record an oil level if the engine oil temperature is low or if the time to refuel is not sufficient for a consistent oil level to be recorded.
It might say that in the manual but it clearly is not how the thing works as it had no fuel added by the dealer either and yet the oil level warning came on.From your owner’s manual:
This vehicle has an electronic engine Oil Level Sensing (OLS) system which records the engine oil level each time the fuel tank is filled with 25 liters or more of fuel. The system may not record an oil level if the engine oil temperature is low or if the time to refuel is not sufficient for a consistent oil level to be recorded.
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