Middle-aged memory
Discussion
To keep it short; to what extend does memory drop off in middle age? By middle aged, I mean 42.
I never used to forget a face. Ever. I could walk into a room and after a quick glance around could describe who was sat where and probably even draw the whole scenario. Probably even the day after down to pretty fine details.
But I recently introduced myself to a group of work colleagues, maybe four or five of them, as they all looked new. Turns out I’d worked closely with all of them previously over the last couple of years. It was somewhat embarrassing, especially as they were all very attractive young ladies who you’d normally remember!
I can’t decide if it’s just because as I’ve got older I have little to no interest in other people or whether my memory is starting to fail me. I know that when we take on new guys at work it’s almost a dead cert that anyone beyond 45 will be f
king useless because they can’t learn fast enough or retain information, so I’m assuming this is all normal-ish. But what can I do to mitigate this and try and retain some sharpness? Or do I need to be worried?
If I don’t reply it’s because I’ve forgotten I’ve posted this, so apologies in advance.
I never used to forget a face. Ever. I could walk into a room and after a quick glance around could describe who was sat where and probably even draw the whole scenario. Probably even the day after down to pretty fine details.
But I recently introduced myself to a group of work colleagues, maybe four or five of them, as they all looked new. Turns out I’d worked closely with all of them previously over the last couple of years. It was somewhat embarrassing, especially as they were all very attractive young ladies who you’d normally remember!
I can’t decide if it’s just because as I’ve got older I have little to no interest in other people or whether my memory is starting to fail me. I know that when we take on new guys at work it’s almost a dead cert that anyone beyond 45 will be f
king useless because they can’t learn fast enough or retain information, so I’m assuming this is all normal-ish. But what can I do to mitigate this and try and retain some sharpness? Or do I need to be worried?If I don’t reply it’s because I’ve forgotten I’ve posted this, so apologies in advance.
47 here, always been very good with faces but not names, I could be talking to someone at a party and spot them a couple of days later and already forgotten their name. Cue lots of "hi there stranger!" type greetings where I try and elude having to say their name and embarrass myself. However, I could speak to a person once and not see them again for 30 years and still instantly recognise their face.
What I do find in the last couple of years is that I sometimes have to hunt for the right word in my head, e.g. I could be mid-sentence and sometimes trying to find the correct term to express something, and it just doesn't come. I don't think it's any kind of early dementia or similar, I never lose my train of thought or anything and it hasn't got any better or worse over a few years - also I usually find an alternative term for what I'm trying to say, but it can be frustrating. I work in a role where I mentally process a lot of information daily and it feels more like my brain needs a rest or a way to cut through all the noise.
Then sometimes I watch interviews with people on TV/online and the less eloquent ones sometimes take a minute to gather their thoughts, or mull over something they're saying which means notable pauses as they're speaking, and I think maybe it's just normal.
What I do find in the last couple of years is that I sometimes have to hunt for the right word in my head, e.g. I could be mid-sentence and sometimes trying to find the correct term to express something, and it just doesn't come. I don't think it's any kind of early dementia or similar, I never lose my train of thought or anything and it hasn't got any better or worse over a few years - also I usually find an alternative term for what I'm trying to say, but it can be frustrating. I work in a role where I mentally process a lot of information daily and it feels more like my brain needs a rest or a way to cut through all the noise.
Then sometimes I watch interviews with people on TV/online and the less eloquent ones sometimes take a minute to gather their thoughts, or mull over something they're saying which means notable pauses as they're speaking, and I think maybe it's just normal.
Nearly 46 here. Definitely getting more forgetful. Was never great with names. Often get distracted causing me to forget to do other things I need to get done. Also like the poster above I often forget certain words I want to use in conversation which can be annoying. A lot of my mates are the same. Reassuring to know it's not just me.
I can be pretty crap with names, never great but definitely struggle a little bit these days. I'm 44.
However, I'd be a little concerned you don't remember people you've worked closely with over the last couple of years. Obviously context is everything, if you work for a multinational company with thousands of employees, and jump from team to team working with people for a few weeks before moving on, then fair enough.
However, I'd be a little concerned you don't remember people you've worked closely with over the last couple of years. Obviously context is everything, if you work for a multinational company with thousands of employees, and jump from team to team working with people for a few weeks before moving on, then fair enough.
Crumpet said:
I know that when we take on new guys at work it’s almost a dead cert that anyone beyond 45 will be fking useless because they can’t learn fast enough or retain information, so I’m assuming this is all normal-ish. But what can I do to mitigate this and try and retain some sharpness? Or do I need to be worried?
It's fairly normal these days, but so is being overweight. The underlying causes are related and neither are inevitable. king useless because they can’t learn fast enough or retain information, so I’m assuming this is all normal-ish. But what can I do to mitigate this and try and retain some sharpness? Or do I need to be worried? Avoid vegetable oils - lipid peroxidation -> 4-hydroxy nonenal (and if you're a synapse, that's bad).
Avoid a diet high in fat and carbs - one or the other (preferably the former), not both (Randle cycle)
Eat meat
Get sleep
Keep moving
Keep learning new things
Avoid dopamine-seeking reward loops; embrace mindfulness
Fifty and still as sharp as ever. The opening benchmark? Debatable.
Crumpet said:
But I recently introduced myself to a group of work colleagues, maybe four or five of them, as they all looked new. Turns out I’d worked closely with all of them previously over the last couple of years. It was somewhat embarrassing, especially as they were all very attractive young ladies who you’d normally remember!
Not to scaremonger and I'm not coming at this from any medical knowledge whatsoever but if that happened to me at 42 I think I'd be getting it checked out or at least not taking it as a given that it's simply down to "getting older".61 here and never forget a face but names I can forget them 30mins after somebody told me! Been like that most of my life.
I put it down to how I'm wired and focus on observation and deciding what is important and what isn't - the what isn't gets dismissed and the other stuff gets stored in the memory. I can recall incidents and events going back over 50yrs with near absolute clarity.
If for example I'm at a function, the likelihood is I'm not going to meet the person again so their name is not important to store, but I'll remember the face and where I saw them.
I put it down to how I'm wired and focus on observation and deciding what is important and what isn't - the what isn't gets dismissed and the other stuff gets stored in the memory. I can recall incidents and events going back over 50yrs with near absolute clarity.
If for example I'm at a function, the likelihood is I'm not going to meet the person again so their name is not important to store, but I'll remember the face and where I saw them.
I’ve always been good with numbers, ok with names and terrible with faces. If someone has a couple of distinguishing features I will remember them but I can walk by people in the street and they will say hi to me and I’ve no idea who they are.
My view is that your brain is like a kitchen cupboard. And all kitchen cupboards are different, pan drawers, cutlery drawers, glass cupboards etc. the reality is it gets full up and the ability to find what you’re after gets harder. Song lyrics from when you’re 15? No problem, now? No chance.
Fortunately most jobs become more ‘strategic’ as you age, cos I am not able to deal with the complexity I did even 10 years ago.
My view is that your brain is like a kitchen cupboard. And all kitchen cupboards are different, pan drawers, cutlery drawers, glass cupboards etc. the reality is it gets full up and the ability to find what you’re after gets harder. Song lyrics from when you’re 15? No problem, now? No chance.
Fortunately most jobs become more ‘strategic’ as you age, cos I am not able to deal with the complexity I did even 10 years ago.
The science says brains stay plastic well into retirement age, although there is a strong case of use it or lose it. The 45 year old thing, I don’t doubt is your experience, but the science doesn’t support it.
The people I work with around that age, I haven’t noticed any cognitive decline in them. I’d go as far as to say, in terms of knowledge, experience and mental abilities, they are at their peak.
What you are describing isn’t normal. Have you had a full health check? I’d start talking to some professionals.
The people I work with around that age, I haven’t noticed any cognitive decline in them. I’d go as far as to say, in terms of knowledge, experience and mental abilities, they are at their peak.
What you are describing isn’t normal. Have you had a full health check? I’d start talking to some professionals.
Edited by wyson on Monday 7th April 19:22
Thanks all. So opinions ranging from ‘me too’ to advice to go and get it checked out.
I did wonder if it was a drop in T levels but generally I feel pretty good.
Just to be clear, it’s a big company and I do see a lot of faces. I might work with them for a day or two and a lot just aren’t very memorable; I don’t forget the ones I ‘click’ with. Perhaps I need another challenge; professionally I’ve reached where I wanted to be and I’m just coasting along.
In any case, I’ll keep an eye on it and try and do some brain exercises and eat better.
jagnet said:
It's fairly normal these days, but so is being overweight. The underlying causes are related and neither are inevitable.
Avoid vegetable oils - lipid peroxidation -> 4-hydroxy nonenal (and if you're a synapse, that's bad).
Avoid a diet high in fat and carbs - one or the other (preferably the former), not both (Randle cycle)
Eat meat
Get sleep
Keep moving
Keep learning new things
Avoid dopamine-seeking reward loops; embrace mindfulness
Fifty and still as sharp as ever. The opening benchmark? Debatable.
In fairness my diet has slipped and it’s not as clean as it was. I did carnivore for a couple of weeks and felt amazing, maybe I need to go back to it and drop the processed crap (which I need to drop anyway). Avoid vegetable oils - lipid peroxidation -> 4-hydroxy nonenal (and if you're a synapse, that's bad).
Avoid a diet high in fat and carbs - one or the other (preferably the former), not both (Randle cycle)
Eat meat
Get sleep
Keep moving
Keep learning new things
Avoid dopamine-seeking reward loops; embrace mindfulness
Fifty and still as sharp as ever. The opening benchmark? Debatable.
I did wonder if it was a drop in T levels but generally I feel pretty good.
Just to be clear, it’s a big company and I do see a lot of faces. I might work with them for a day or two and a lot just aren’t very memorable; I don’t forget the ones I ‘click’ with. Perhaps I need another challenge; professionally I’ve reached where I wanted to be and I’m just coasting along.
In any case, I’ll keep an eye on it and try and do some brain exercises and eat better.
Crumpet said:
To keep it short; to what extend does memory drop off in middle age? By middle aged, I mean 42.
I never used to forget a face. Ever. I could walk into a room and after a quick glance around could describe who was sat where and probably even draw the whole scenario. Probably even the day after down to pretty fine details.
But I recently introduced myself to a group of work colleagues, maybe four or five of them, as they all looked new. Turns out I’d worked closely with all of them previously over the last couple of years. It was somewhat embarrassing, especially as they were all very attractive young ladies who you’d normally remember!
You have turned!I never used to forget a face. Ever. I could walk into a room and after a quick glance around could describe who was sat where and probably even draw the whole scenario. Probably even the day after down to pretty fine details.
But I recently introduced myself to a group of work colleagues, maybe four or five of them, as they all looked new. Turns out I’d worked closely with all of them previously over the last couple of years. It was somewhat embarrassing, especially as they were all very attractive young ladies who you’d normally remember!
If you work in a big firm, does it offer stuff like the below for free with private health cover?
https://www.nuffieldhealth.com/health-assessments/...
https://www.bupa.co.uk/bookingtool/appointment-typ...
be.ahead above.
Really worth doing if you haven’t done so already. The statistics show all the risks start escalating in your 40’s.
https://www.nuffieldhealth.com/health-assessments/...
https://www.bupa.co.uk/bookingtool/appointment-typ...
be.ahead above.
Really worth doing if you haven’t done so already. The statistics show all the risks start escalating in your 40’s.
Edited by wyson on Monday 7th April 19:47
For some reason there are pervasive stereo types about age.
Physical abilities tailing off sharply is another one.
Look at the below statistics of 5k running times by age:
https://runninglevel.com/running-times/5k-times
2 and a bit minutes difference for a novice runner, 25 years old (26:19) vs 45 years old (28:47)
Sure that 2 minutes is an age if you are running competitively, but it isn’t miles off in the grand scheme of things. The data shows noticeable increases in time from your 70’s, largely mirroring charts showing cognitive decline in science journals that I’ve seen.
Now if you’ve let yourself go, and at 45 couldn’t even run for the bus, let alone a 5k and have also become a cognitive couch potato, that is on you!
Apologies, I know its not direct information on cognition, but I’ve been trying to improve my 5k park run times and have been examining the data. Obviously the brain being a physical organ, there are broad correlations to other kinds of physical deterioration.
Physical abilities tailing off sharply is another one.
Look at the below statistics of 5k running times by age:
https://runninglevel.com/running-times/5k-times
2 and a bit minutes difference for a novice runner, 25 years old (26:19) vs 45 years old (28:47)
Sure that 2 minutes is an age if you are running competitively, but it isn’t miles off in the grand scheme of things. The data shows noticeable increases in time from your 70’s, largely mirroring charts showing cognitive decline in science journals that I’ve seen.
Now if you’ve let yourself go, and at 45 couldn’t even run for the bus, let alone a 5k and have also become a cognitive couch potato, that is on you!
Apologies, I know its not direct information on cognition, but I’ve been trying to improve my 5k park run times and have been examining the data. Obviously the brain being a physical organ, there are broad correlations to other kinds of physical deterioration.
Edited by wyson on Monday 7th April 22:58
Mercury00 said:
I'm only 39, and my brain is going downhill. I keep thinking I'll get early onset dementia because of all the overthinking I do. I used to remember everything - names, dates, spellings etc. now I struggle to remember what I did yesterday.
Well, for now at least, I’m not quite that bad! I’m not too concerned about me forgetting names, that’s nothing new!The thing is, I’m now looking for excuses. The dynamic at work has changed; in the past we used to build relationships with colleagues because we had a lot more in common and spent more time together. Now, being honest, the new people are just a bit dull - they’re really not very memorable and most don’t seem interested in team building.
It could also genuinely be that I’m now just saturated. I meet so many people, go to so many places, stay in so many hotels that it could just now be one-in-one-out!
I’ll see how it goes. The BUPA thing isn’t a bad idea. I do have cover with them.
wyson said:
For some reason there are pervasive stereo types about age.
Physical abilities tailing off sharply is another one.
Look at the below statistics of 5k running times by age:
https://runninglevel.com/running-times/5k-times
2 and a bit minutes difference for a novice runner, 25 years old (26:19) vs 45 years old (28:47)
Sure that 2 minutes is an age if you are running competitively, but it isn’t miles off in the grand scheme of things. The data shows noticeable increases in time from your 70’s, largely mirroring charts showing cognitive decline in science journals that I’ve seen.
Now if you’ve let yourself go, and at 45 couldn’t even run for the bus, let alone a 5k and have also become a cognitive couch potato, that is on you!
Apologies, I know its not direct information on cognition, but I’ve been trying to improve my 5k park run times and have been examining the data. Obviously the brain being a physical organ, there are broad correlations to other kinds of physical deterioration.
In fairness I’m physically stronger now than I’ve ever been; I can bench 100kg, do 15 pull ups and did 6km in 28 minutes yesterday. I’m not unfit. That being said, most people would be appalled at my lifestyle and work patterns. Physical abilities tailing off sharply is another one.
Look at the below statistics of 5k running times by age:
https://runninglevel.com/running-times/5k-times
2 and a bit minutes difference for a novice runner, 25 years old (26:19) vs 45 years old (28:47)
Sure that 2 minutes is an age if you are running competitively, but it isn’t miles off in the grand scheme of things. The data shows noticeable increases in time from your 70’s, largely mirroring charts showing cognitive decline in science journals that I’ve seen.
Now if you’ve let yourself go, and at 45 couldn’t even run for the bus, let alone a 5k and have also become a cognitive couch potato, that is on you!
Apologies, I know its not direct information on cognition, but I’ve been trying to improve my 5k park run times and have been examining the data. Obviously the brain being a physical organ, there are broad correlations to other kinds of physical deterioration.
Edited by wyson on Monday 7th April 22:58
When I was in my 40s nobody talked about memory loss, dementia etc, then, especially at that age.
The problem today is it's in the news daily, like cancer.
I recall coming out of a supermarket once and forgetting where I'd parked my car. I have pals who would park their car in the fking front entrance they're so lazy. I knew damn well my car would be at the rear of the car park somewhere, and it was.
I related this in the pub that evening (must be 10 yrs ago now, when I was 65) and one of my pals wives was a researcher into stuff like that. She said 'Don't worry Dan. When/if you really start to have memory loss problems you'll know. If you don't someone will soon point it out to you.'
She said 'Your experience was simply one of forgetfulness, nothing else. It happens to all of us, the older you get the more stuff is filling and clogging up your mind.
Now, let's for arguments sake, say you had come out of the supermarket and thought to yourself:
'What the bloody hell am I doing here?'
'Now, that would be a time to worry. Not before.'
I've always kept that in mind.
Bit like drugs, don't do it kids! I'm a 60's sex,drugs & rock 'n roll teenager and I learnt fast... and adhered to it:
'My mind is my own, and I intend to keep it that way!'
The problem today is it's in the news daily, like cancer.
I recall coming out of a supermarket once and forgetting where I'd parked my car. I have pals who would park their car in the f
king front entrance they're so lazy. I knew damn well my car would be at the rear of the car park somewhere, and it was.I related this in the pub that evening (must be 10 yrs ago now, when I was 65) and one of my pals wives was a researcher into stuff like that. She said 'Don't worry Dan. When/if you really start to have memory loss problems you'll know. If you don't someone will soon point it out to you.'
She said 'Your experience was simply one of forgetfulness, nothing else. It happens to all of us, the older you get the more stuff is filling and clogging up your mind.
Now, let's for arguments sake, say you had come out of the supermarket and thought to yourself:
'What the bloody hell am I doing here?'
'Now, that would be a time to worry. Not before.'
I've always kept that in mind.
Bit like drugs, don't do it kids! I'm a 60's sex,
'My mind is my own, and I intend to keep it that way!'
Armitage.Shanks said:
61 here and never forget a face but names I can forget them 30mins after somebody told me! Been like that most of my life.
I put it down to how I'm wired and focus on observation and deciding what is important and what isn't - the what isn't gets dismissed and the other stuff gets stored in the memory. I can recall incidents and events going back over 50yrs with near absolute clarity.
If for example I'm at a function, the likelihood is I'm not going to meet the person again so their name is not important to store, but I'll remember the face and where I saw them.
I’m exactly the same at the same age.I put it down to how I'm wired and focus on observation and deciding what is important and what isn't - the what isn't gets dismissed and the other stuff gets stored in the memory. I can recall incidents and events going back over 50yrs with near absolute clarity.
If for example I'm at a function, the likelihood is I'm not going to meet the person again so their name is not important to store, but I'll remember the face and where I saw them.
However, I don’t believe your analysis is necessarily correct. It may be that like me you have a very effective fusiform gyrus.
My general memory of daily events noticeably deteriorated after my first terror at a much earlier age than the OP. It’s the constant randomness, interruptions and sleepless nights.
Sometimes the Mrs takes the terrors to her parents, after a couple of weeks, I feel my sanity and memory coming back.
So it’s more about my lifestyle than my brain per se.
Agree with the others saying your life is much simpler when you are younger, and its therefore easier to remember stuff.
From what I have read, your memory has a 10min buffer, its almost like RAM, held there very short term, and volatile. If something happens in that 10 mins, it’s liable to just be flushed and not transferred to longer term memory structures. A chaotic environment, or trying to juggle 15 things at once, is perfect for disrupting this transfer process.
Having said that, I’ve managed to study for professional exams even with terrors, by reserving 2 hour chunks of uninterrupted time. Plenty of people in my firm with lots of responsibilities have also gotten MBA’s in their 30’s and 40’s. So I’d say for most people, unless well into old age, memory problems are more about lifestyle and time / task management than underlying physical deterioration.
Sometimes the Mrs takes the terrors to her parents, after a couple of weeks, I feel my sanity and memory coming back.
So it’s more about my lifestyle than my brain per se.
Agree with the others saying your life is much simpler when you are younger, and its therefore easier to remember stuff.
From what I have read, your memory has a 10min buffer, its almost like RAM, held there very short term, and volatile. If something happens in that 10 mins, it’s liable to just be flushed and not transferred to longer term memory structures. A chaotic environment, or trying to juggle 15 things at once, is perfect for disrupting this transfer process.
Having said that, I’ve managed to study for professional exams even with terrors, by reserving 2 hour chunks of uninterrupted time. Plenty of people in my firm with lots of responsibilities have also gotten MBA’s in their 30’s and 40’s. So I’d say for most people, unless well into old age, memory problems are more about lifestyle and time / task management than underlying physical deterioration.
Edited by wyson on Tuesday 8th April 09:00
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