Planning Permission advice needed
Discussion
Very briefly, I've inherited a house and the plot it occupies is probably more desirable than the tired late-Edwardian building that sits on it. It would need a lot of work internally to make it presentable. Immediately next door (detached) is a contemporary home built in the same style but approx 10 years old.
How would you start on getting planning permission for the plot if you were intending to sell it as a redevelopment? You could get 3 houses where there now stands just one. Do you need to have plans for the houses drawn up or is planning permission given in principle and you don;t have to have the details specified to the nth degree?
How would you start on getting planning permission for the plot if you were intending to sell it as a redevelopment? You could get 3 houses where there now stands just one. Do you need to have plans for the houses drawn up or is planning permission given in principle and you don;t have to have the details specified to the nth degree?
As above, you need to start with a local planning consultant (who ideally will have MRTPI or MRICS after their name).
They will be able to give you high level advice and then, if it appears feasible, advise whether a pre-app may be beneficial and guide you through the hoops you will need to jump through (design, ecology, transport, landscape and visual impact etc…) before you can submit a pre-app and/or application.
In terms of whether to go for full or outline planning, that decision is away down the road at this stage, but your planning consultant will advise on that too. As a VERY general rule, outline planning works well for bigger sites, where a bigger builder may come in and what to adapt the scheme to their own requirements, whereas for smaller sites (such as yours), which would generally be built out by a smaller developer, they might just want to buy the finished package and get on with building. But ultimately, it’s site specific.
Finally, before you go too far down the road, you’ll want advise on what the options may sell for from local agents (who have history of selling development sites - depending on area/site - 2 large houses may net you more money than three small ones, for example. You’ll also need to seek QS input on the cost of the proposed designs, and whether they will be viable to build..
Finally, you’ll need to understand the legal situation, I.e any relevant covenants, easements, uplift agreements etc.
It’s a complex path, so while it seems expensive, professional advice is key.
Out of interest, did you buy the site with this in mind?
They will be able to give you high level advice and then, if it appears feasible, advise whether a pre-app may be beneficial and guide you through the hoops you will need to jump through (design, ecology, transport, landscape and visual impact etc…) before you can submit a pre-app and/or application.
In terms of whether to go for full or outline planning, that decision is away down the road at this stage, but your planning consultant will advise on that too. As a VERY general rule, outline planning works well for bigger sites, where a bigger builder may come in and what to adapt the scheme to their own requirements, whereas for smaller sites (such as yours), which would generally be built out by a smaller developer, they might just want to buy the finished package and get on with building. But ultimately, it’s site specific.
Finally, before you go too far down the road, you’ll want advise on what the options may sell for from local agents (who have history of selling development sites - depending on area/site - 2 large houses may net you more money than three small ones, for example. You’ll also need to seek QS input on the cost of the proposed designs, and whether they will be viable to build..
Finally, you’ll need to understand the legal situation, I.e any relevant covenants, easements, uplift agreements etc.
It’s a complex path, so while it seems expensive, professional advice is key.
Out of interest, did you buy the site with this in mind?
Acorn1 said:
First step, ask for a pre-planning consultation with your local Council.
It's free and they will give you an idea of what's possible or not.
Just be cautious, I did that with my local council for a fairly simple application, went in a s explained it all to them, they said it would be fine and told me what steps to follow to apply for planning permission. It's free and they will give you an idea of what's possible or not.
Followed their instructions so the letter... Denied....
Edited by Buzz84 on Thursday 3rd April 19:11
Acorn1 said:
First step, ask for a pre-planning consultation with your local Council.
It's free and they will give you an idea of what's possible or not.
It's not free where I live. Not big money but not free.It's free and they will give you an idea of what's possible or not.
Planning consultant is the way. Some will do a reduced or free initial consultation.
Where in the country is it?
What do such plots go for?
Is the plot particularly attractive to a homebuyer/developer/selfbuilder?
3 houses is perhaps only a proposition for a certain type of builder.
It's not the economy of scale of building 10 houses,
Around here, i get the impression that plots are advertised for a lot more than builders actually pay, in the hope of attracting self builders or people wanting a 'bespoke' house. Have a look at auction results to find out what people are actually paying.
It's not necessarily money for old rope, there is a lot of time and investment in services needed, and you might not succeed.
The existing house is 'tired'?
Does that mean, knackered, unmortgagable, or just in need of decorating?
What do such plots go for?
Is the plot particularly attractive to a homebuyer/developer/selfbuilder?
3 houses is perhaps only a proposition for a certain type of builder.
It's not the economy of scale of building 10 houses,
Around here, i get the impression that plots are advertised for a lot more than builders actually pay, in the hope of attracting self builders or people wanting a 'bespoke' house. Have a look at auction results to find out what people are actually paying.
It's not necessarily money for old rope, there is a lot of time and investment in services needed, and you might not succeed.
The existing house is 'tired'?
Does that mean, knackered, unmortgagable, or just in need of decorating?
OutInTheShed said:
Where in the country is it?
SpaldingOutInTheShed said:
What do such plots go for?
No ideaOutInTheShed said:
Is the plot particularly attractive to a homebuyer/developer/selfbuilder?
I like to think so. There are new houses and a small development across the road and immediately next door. We'll see.OutInTheShed said:
3 houses is perhaps only a proposition for a certain type of builder. It's not the economy of scale of building 10 houses.
Understood. I was trying to give an idea of the size of the plot really. It could house 3 homes, whether you'd choose to or not is a different matter.OutInTheShed said:
The existing house is 'tired'? Does that mean, knackered, unmortgagable, or just in need of decorating?
In need of extensive redecoration, minor repairs and refreshing. It's just old, dated and tired. It could be lovely, after a lot of effort. Double fronted bay windows, little workshop, conservatory, off road parking for 2 cars and a decent size garden to the rear and side.username_checksout said:
OutInTheShed said:
Where in the country is it?
SpaldingOutInTheShed said:
What do such plots go for?
No ideaOutInTheShed said:
Is the plot particularly attractive to a homebuyer/developer/selfbuilder?
I like to think so. There are new houses and a small development across the road and immediately next door. We'll see.OutInTheShed said:
3 houses is perhaps only a proposition for a certain type of builder. It's not the economy of scale of building 10 houses.
Understood. I was trying to give an idea of the size of the plot really. It could house 3 homes, whether you'd choose to or not is a different matter.OutInTheShed said:
The existing house is 'tired'? Does that mean, knackered, unmortgagable, or just in need of decorating?
In need of extensive redecoration, minor repairs and refreshing. It's just old, dated and tired. It could be lovely, after a lot of effort. Double fronted bay windows, little workshop, conservatory, off road parking for 2 cars and a decent size garden to the rear and side.There are several auction houses which publish results online, should give you some idea of what plots and projects change hands for.
Work out the money to be made by developing the site vs selling the existing, maybe after getting some painting done, or more work done?
OTOH, somebody might pay fairly good money for it, then update/extend it as they want.
People will pay good money for what they want, people who are buying as 'business' want to buy cheap and sell dear.
Then you can make a decision whether it's worth hanging on to it for 'a while' while you grapple with the planning system.
Forget a pre app. They are not free and the advise is non binding.
You can do some free research by finding a similar plot locally and looking at the planning section of the local authorities website.
Finding a vague comparable 2/3/4/5 houses shouldn't it be that difficult and you will get an idea of the minimum plot size they will allow and see from the planning reports how difficult it was. Agreed. Lots of conditions? Won on Appeal.
Many authorities don't like infill development so in very general terms you are going to need enough frontage to accommodate 3 homes. They will likely need driveways and is their safe access with visibility splays that comply with council policy to allow this to happen. If not is there any demand for a house without a driveway.
Don't underestimate the cost of designing 3 houses which will all be similar but unique.
Do your own desktop research. It if you really don't know where to start don't and play developer. You are designing houses that people will have to buy and whilst the architect can help they mostly lack imagination and are directed by their client.
You can get outline planning but that is not without issues either and then the purchasing developer needs full planning. Similarly if you get planning the the houses are dogs the developer will modify them anyway. So you need a really good idea of what will sell.
It is not rocket science but does take time cars and money.
I have don't many many houses and I would not build out 3 houses. Too much hassle. Cil tax etc
Your other alternative is to get an architect to draw up a suggested scheme and market the plot with that suggested scheme and hope someone bites.
I don't know the plot. I don't know the area. You do
You can do some free research by finding a similar plot locally and looking at the planning section of the local authorities website.
Finding a vague comparable 2/3/4/5 houses shouldn't it be that difficult and you will get an idea of the minimum plot size they will allow and see from the planning reports how difficult it was. Agreed. Lots of conditions? Won on Appeal.
Many authorities don't like infill development so in very general terms you are going to need enough frontage to accommodate 3 homes. They will likely need driveways and is their safe access with visibility splays that comply with council policy to allow this to happen. If not is there any demand for a house without a driveway.
Don't underestimate the cost of designing 3 houses which will all be similar but unique.
Do your own desktop research. It if you really don't know where to start don't and play developer. You are designing houses that people will have to buy and whilst the architect can help they mostly lack imagination and are directed by their client.
You can get outline planning but that is not without issues either and then the purchasing developer needs full planning. Similarly if you get planning the the houses are dogs the developer will modify them anyway. So you need a really good idea of what will sell.
It is not rocket science but does take time cars and money.
I have don't many many houses and I would not build out 3 houses. Too much hassle. Cil tax etc
Your other alternative is to get an architect to draw up a suggested scheme and market the plot with that suggested scheme and hope someone bites.
I don't know the plot. I don't know the area. You do
Thanks for the advice, and as an option to explore I'm now firmly in the camp of (as mentioned above) sell as is and let somebody else decide what they want to do with it.
I think the state of the house clouded the initial judgement, in as much as 'this is terrible, better off knocking it down...'
I don't know the area at all so I will now speak to local agents and let them direct the best way to sell, sans any planning permission. It sounds like a lot of effort that wouldn't justify or guarantee the return.
I think the state of the house clouded the initial judgement, in as much as 'this is terrible, better off knocking it down...'
I don't know the area at all so I will now speak to local agents and let them direct the best way to sell, sans any planning permission. It sounds like a lot of effort that wouldn't justify or guarantee the return.
Your options to enhance the property value all depend on how far you go and how much you want to fund it. The less funding on your part means there are unknowns/risk for the future purchaser. The more risks you pay to remove, the (potentially) higher the value for you, but always bear in mind that there are no guarantees with planning.
So, you could fund it by £xxx and get nothing in return, so the first question is how much can you afford to write off?
As it is inherited (condolences) then it is potentially 'free money', so if you end up spending 10% of this money, then you have still inherited 90%..? (man maths
)
Initial Assessment
- is it in the development boundary
- Conservation area/Geen Belt/other restrictions
- Local Plan/Policy - development densities, backland development, etc.
- Access, drainage, boundaries, legals, etc.
- flood risk
- loads of other things...
Whilst it 'might' be suitable for three dwellings, when you factor in highway/access, garden/amenity size, etc., etc. it might not, hence the initial assessment. Equally, there might be a case for more when you factor in National Planning Policy Framework and 'efficient use of land', established densities, transport nodes, etc.
Pre-application advice
Once you have an illustrative plan for people to point at, then you could seek pre-app advice (cost to the LPA varies) but if you received a favourable response then you could market the site with a plan (as mentioned above), for the least outlay on your part.
Obviously, least outlay equals least enhanced value but you might spend £2-3k.
Outline Application
Taking it this far means that you have established the principle, removes biggest risk, but to get to that point you will have to fund;
- topographical survey - some LPA's insist, some don't
- PEA (preliminary ecological assessment) - ecologically, what is there (and (potentially) has been for the previous three years...
- Bat survey - roost & nocturnal - you want to demolish an existing building...
- BNG (Biodiversity Net Gain) - calculations to show you will enhance (min +10%) from your baseline PEA
- Application fee
- Drawings, planning statement, etc.
In most cases, you are likely to seek permission for access only (with all other matters reserved), so looking at the above, you might be into £10-15k.
Going this route, you are leaving the final design, layout, appearance, etc. to the next person. They might want to design their own (self-build) or a developer might have their own designs that they want to use.
Self-build dwellings are exempt from BNG and CiL (subject to criteria) so less cost up front and, often, they have a higher value than selling to a developer.
Full Application
On the basis you are only seeking to enhance the value and sell, there is no real benefit for you to go this far. If you were going to build them, or self-build them, then yes but and future purchaser can/will deal with the reserved matters application for layout, appearance, landscaping and scale.
CiL (community infrastructure levy)
Can be a kick in the n*ts... using £250/m2, in more rural locations, a 200m2 house is £50k per plot and... it is coming off the land value.
Unless you go the self-build route... no BNG, no CiL, higher land value to Mr & Mrs Smith who are doing it to live in and not to make 20% profit. You could potentially provide a 'serviced site' (drainage and access road constructed) then sell the plots as self-build.
I have recently completed something similar; single house with large garden, outline permission for 2 dwellings granted and now going to auction for ~£300k. The village has no 'border' (not helpful) so each case judged on it's own merits, local opposition, sloping site, highway issues, etc. nothing is easy anymore and there is always a risk...
So, back to the big question, how much can you, or want to, risk?
So, you could fund it by £xxx and get nothing in return, so the first question is how much can you afford to write off?
As it is inherited (condolences) then it is potentially 'free money', so if you end up spending 10% of this money, then you have still inherited 90%..? (man maths
)Initial Assessment
- is it in the development boundary
- Conservation area/Geen Belt/other restrictions
- Local Plan/Policy - development densities, backland development, etc.
- Access, drainage, boundaries, legals, etc.
- flood risk
- loads of other things...
Whilst it 'might' be suitable for three dwellings, when you factor in highway/access, garden/amenity size, etc., etc. it might not, hence the initial assessment. Equally, there might be a case for more when you factor in National Planning Policy Framework and 'efficient use of land', established densities, transport nodes, etc.
Pre-application advice
Once you have an illustrative plan for people to point at, then you could seek pre-app advice (cost to the LPA varies) but if you received a favourable response then you could market the site with a plan (as mentioned above), for the least outlay on your part.
Obviously, least outlay equals least enhanced value but you might spend £2-3k.
Outline Application
Taking it this far means that you have established the principle, removes biggest risk, but to get to that point you will have to fund;
- topographical survey - some LPA's insist, some don't
- PEA (preliminary ecological assessment) - ecologically, what is there (and (potentially) has been for the previous three years...
- Bat survey - roost & nocturnal - you want to demolish an existing building...
- BNG (Biodiversity Net Gain) - calculations to show you will enhance (min +10%) from your baseline PEA
- Application fee
- Drawings, planning statement, etc.
In most cases, you are likely to seek permission for access only (with all other matters reserved), so looking at the above, you might be into £10-15k.
Going this route, you are leaving the final design, layout, appearance, etc. to the next person. They might want to design their own (self-build) or a developer might have their own designs that they want to use.
Self-build dwellings are exempt from BNG and CiL (subject to criteria) so less cost up front and, often, they have a higher value than selling to a developer.
Full Application
On the basis you are only seeking to enhance the value and sell, there is no real benefit for you to go this far. If you were going to build them, or self-build them, then yes but and future purchaser can/will deal with the reserved matters application for layout, appearance, landscaping and scale.
CiL (community infrastructure levy)
Can be a kick in the n*ts... using £250/m2, in more rural locations, a 200m2 house is £50k per plot and... it is coming off the land value.
Unless you go the self-build route... no BNG, no CiL, higher land value to Mr & Mrs Smith who are doing it to live in and not to make 20% profit. You could potentially provide a 'serviced site' (drainage and access road constructed) then sell the plots as self-build.
I have recently completed something similar; single house with large garden, outline permission for 2 dwellings granted and now going to auction for ~£300k. The village has no 'border' (not helpful) so each case judged on it's own merits, local opposition, sloping site, highway issues, etc. nothing is easy anymore and there is always a risk...
So, back to the big question, how much can you, or want to, risk?
andya7 said:
(Loads of useful info....)
So, back to the big question, how much can you, or want to, risk?
After reading that - nothing. Wow. We'll just sell as is I think.So, back to the big question, how much can you, or want to, risk?
Somebody may love it and see the potential.
It wasn't about making money, more trying to make what we thought is an unattractive proposition more inviting. With that in mind, whatever it eventually sells for would be gratefully received. It is free money as you say.
You mentioned it is in Spalding and South Holland do offer a pre-app advice service - https://www.sholland.gov.uk/article/12679/Pre-Appl... - more importantly they don't appear to want money (a rarity..!)
So, you could send them over a simple enquiry; completed form and an OS plan (Land Registry Title Plan £7) and see what they come back with?
It is unlikely that they come back and say 'yes, brilliant, we agree that demolishing an old low insulated building and replace with modern energy saving dwellings is exactly what we want'
But you never know...
So, you could send them over a simple enquiry; completed form and an OS plan (Land Registry Title Plan £7) and see what they come back with?
It is unlikely that they come back and say 'yes, brilliant, we agree that demolishing an old low insulated building and replace with modern energy saving dwellings is exactly what we want'
But you never know...
I'd get a few local estate agents round for a chat.
They are in touch with all the developers and will be able to give you an idea of the value of the plot.
A developer will probably go for flats rather than houses and you may be surprised at how much they would pay if your plot interests them.
As always, location is the key.
They are in touch with all the developers and will be able to give you an idea of the value of the plot.
A developer will probably go for flats rather than houses and you may be surprised at how much they would pay if your plot interests them.
As always, location is the key.
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