Large garage/shed
Discussion
Depends on your definition of recently. I built a 750 square foot garage (about 69 square metres) but that was about 3 years ago ish.
Mine is a 3 door, 3 bay garage, with each bay oversized so you can easily walk around each car with a good metre to spare, to give plenty of space if I want to detail a car whilst inside the garage or whatever.
Despite being built over 3 years ago, It's only now that I am actually getting round to plastering and finishing it internally... It's just concrete floor and bare block walls at the moment, but will be plastered soon, then onto fitting some cupboards and worktops etc.
Mine is a 3 door, 3 bay garage, with each bay oversized so you can easily walk around each car with a good metre to spare, to give plenty of space if I want to detail a car whilst inside the garage or whatever.
Despite being built over 3 years ago, It's only now that I am actually getting round to plastering and finishing it internally... It's just concrete floor and bare block walls at the moment, but will be plastered soon, then onto fitting some cupboards and worktops etc.
LooneyTunes said:
Yes... have done a couple larger than that recently.
What are you trying to find out?
Trying to read the planning portal and not banging my head against the wall. What are you trying to find out?
I wish to build/erect an 8m x 8m garage/shed on my land by my house. Its not clear to me whether its within permitted planning permission to build it or not.
AND Cornwall CC charge £400 just to have a chat to ask whether I need to apply for permission or not as well.
The government has a pretty detailed document on what counts as permitted development:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d7...
You want the "class E" section of the document. A summary of the most interesting rules:
There are other more restrictive rules in things like national parks and AoONB.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d7...
You want the "class E" section of the document. A summary of the most interesting rules:
- The building must be under 4 meters tall if it has a dual pitched roof; 3 meters tall if it does not; and 2m tall if it is within 2m of the boundary of the plot.
- The eaves must be no higher than 2.5m.
- Must not protrude forwards of the principle elevation(s) of the existing property.
- Must not cover more than half the plot, excluding the existing house.
There are other more restrictive rules in things like national parks and AoONB.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 27th March 15:25
It could be, but it depends; how big is your garden and has the house been extended since 1948? Do you want a roof apex higher than 4 metres? Are you in a National Park, AONB or World Heritage Site? Is the proposed site in front of or behind the principal elevation? Is it within 2m of the boundary?
DSMSMR said:
AND Cornwall CC charge £400 just to have a chat to ask whether I need to apply for permission or not as well.
This is what really annoys me. It's that I can't even talk to the council for less than £180 in Suffolk. I don't mind paying for written advice that I can take back to an appeal and point out "you said it was OK"...No wonder people just ignore the laws.
DSMSMR said:
Anyone built a large garage/shed on their land recently? Say at least 60 sq m.........
I'm looking for something similar. I've an old prefab bungalow in my garden 10X6 metres on a footing about 1' high so there's extra height. I use it as a garage but it's falling down and needs to be replaced. I'm thinking a room above would be really useful and a big roof for solar panels. Trying to determine what this little lot is likely to cost (so far I've had one oak frame place come back at about 56k) but really want to know what I can and can't get built.
Alternatively it might be worth just trying for permission to sell as a plot for a bungalow.
Or just a big wooden garage, if I can't get an extra floor at least it would be nice to have a mezzanine for storage and space for a lift.
kambites said:
The government has a pretty detailed document on what counts as permitted development:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d7...
You want the "class E" section of the document. A summary of the most interesting rules:
There are other more restrictive rules in things like national parks and AoONB.
WILL be under 4m tallhttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d7...
You want the "class E" section of the document. A summary of the most interesting rules:
- The building must be under 4 meters tall if it has a dual pitched roof; 3 meters tall if it does not; and 2m tall if it is within 2m of the boundary of the plot.
- The eaves must be no higher than 2.5m.
- Must not protrude forwards of the principle elevation(s) of the existing property.
- Must not cover more than half the plot, excluding the existing house.
There are other more restrictive rules in things like national parks and AoONB.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 27th March 15:25
Eaves WILL be no higher than 2.5m
It wont
It wont...(3 acre field)
Cheers
DSMSMR said:
kambites said:
The government has a pretty detailed document on what counts as permitted development:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d7...
You want the "class E" section of the document. A summary of the most interesting rules:
There are other more restrictive rules in things like national parks and AoONB.
WILL be under 4m tallhttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d7...
You want the "class E" section of the document. A summary of the most interesting rules:
- The building must be under 4 meters tall if it has a dual pitched roof; 3 meters tall if it does not; and 2m tall if it is within 2m of the boundary of the plot.
- The eaves must be no higher than 2.5m.
- Must not protrude forwards of the principle elevation(s) of the existing property.
- Must not cover more than half the plot, excluding the existing house.
There are other more restrictive rules in things like national parks and AoONB.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 27th March 15:25
Eaves WILL be no higher than 2.5m
It wont
It wont...(3 acre field)
Cheers
You will need to submit a Building Control application.
You mention a field… is this within a residential curtilage (I.e. a garden)? If it’s not (I.e if it’s agricultural or equestrian land) PD won’t apply.
hidetheelephants said:
It could be, but it depends; how big is your garden and has the house been extended since 1948? Do you want a roof apex higher than 4 metres? Are you in a National Park, AONB or World Heritage Site? Is the proposed site in front of or behind the principal elevation? Is it within 2m of the boundary?
House sits in a 3 acre field so no worries of the curtilage there, will be detached, not infront of the house just a reg house in the country....will be 4 m away from the read or the garage which is attached....Have since found out that to apply for pp is £380+ ....BUT if OI dont have too!!!
(Just read the comments since I started typing this... curtilage isn't the same as ownership, so when you say it is in 3 acres is that all 'domestic curtilage', if it isn't then you aren't going down the PD route)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/sched...
...and it has to be 'reasonably required' (a few Appeal decisions on this) so you can't have a 100m2 building for storing garden tools...
If you live in a 2 bed terrace with back access, then whilst it might not cover 50% of the overall curtilage it might be considered excessive. Whereas a 5 bed detached in 2 acres (standard PH director size) a triple garage wouldn't appear amiss.
You might already have garaging, but have a collection of cars so you need more garage space. I have done this exact thing, 6 car garage under PD Rights, applied for a Lawful Development Certificate and it was agreed/approved.
Slightly contentious as it was on a plot of 2 acres, with a pond between and several TPO'd trees... the garaging was located the other side of the pond, with a long driveway (PD Class F) and, using the highest ground level ended up around 5.5m high at its highest (2m from the boundary) at the 'low end', blocking the view from the adjacent bungalow...
As other have said;
Is there an Article 4 Directive - removing PD Rights?
Is it in a Conservation Area (or Article 2(3), AONB, National Park, Heritage Site, Listed Building, etc.)
Is it within the curtilage of the dwelling? - e.g. if your land is split by a hedge, fence, etc. then it might not form part of the domestic curtilage
2m+ from boundary - max 4m high with a pitched roof
2m+ from boundary - max 3m high (flat/mono roof)
<2m from boundary - max 2.5m high
Eaves max 2.5m for all
If you do go down the PD route, then check your Local Planning Authority (LPA) design guide, to see if they have a minimum requirement for garage spaces, whilst this is used when you are counting garage spaces as space for parking it is a useful stick to point at the LPA.
Not unusual to see guides stating that a single garage has to be 6m x 3m, so a double would be 36m2, triple 54m2, etc. If you 'want' 60m2, then is it reasonably required? Or you could submit an application on the basis of 'I can do this under PD, but want it 1m from the boundary' (have done that many times) and can't recall a refusal.
..don't forget, planning and Building Regs are quite separate, so at that size you will require Building Regs, and you will need to bear in mind who are the 'duty holders';
Client - you
Principal Designer - might be you?
Principal Contractor - are you going to get someone to build it? Or manage it... if the latter, are you suitably qualified?
Building anything is becoming harder and harder, then you have to find someone to build it and pay for it...
Most, if not all builders are quoting the standard £2500/m2 (as per the other thread) however I have recently completed a large extension (with me managing subcontractors and occasional labouring), legitimately employed bricklayer/general all rounder and a young labourer for 6 months (for the heavier lifting work...) came in at £1000/m2 (+vat).
That includes kitchen, appliances, floor finishes, etc. basically a finished building... the Mrs did the internal painting/wallpaper.
I worked on the basis that to be in a position to pay a contractor £100k(+vat) extra in profit/labour/etc., I would have to earn £200k (before tax, etc.) so it made more sense to take 12-18months 'off', project manage and be far better off financially.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/sched...
...and it has to be 'reasonably required' (a few Appeal decisions on this) so you can't have a 100m2 building for storing garden tools...
If you live in a 2 bed terrace with back access, then whilst it might not cover 50% of the overall curtilage it might be considered excessive. Whereas a 5 bed detached in 2 acres (standard PH director size) a triple garage wouldn't appear amiss.
You might already have garaging, but have a collection of cars so you need more garage space. I have done this exact thing, 6 car garage under PD Rights, applied for a Lawful Development Certificate and it was agreed/approved.
Slightly contentious as it was on a plot of 2 acres, with a pond between and several TPO'd trees... the garaging was located the other side of the pond, with a long driveway (PD Class F) and, using the highest ground level ended up around 5.5m high at its highest (2m from the boundary) at the 'low end', blocking the view from the adjacent bungalow...
As other have said;
Is there an Article 4 Directive - removing PD Rights?
Is it in a Conservation Area (or Article 2(3), AONB, National Park, Heritage Site, Listed Building, etc.)
Is it within the curtilage of the dwelling? - e.g. if your land is split by a hedge, fence, etc. then it might not form part of the domestic curtilage
2m+ from boundary - max 4m high with a pitched roof
2m+ from boundary - max 3m high (flat/mono roof)
<2m from boundary - max 2.5m high
Eaves max 2.5m for all
If you do go down the PD route, then check your Local Planning Authority (LPA) design guide, to see if they have a minimum requirement for garage spaces, whilst this is used when you are counting garage spaces as space for parking it is a useful stick to point at the LPA.
Not unusual to see guides stating that a single garage has to be 6m x 3m, so a double would be 36m2, triple 54m2, etc. If you 'want' 60m2, then is it reasonably required? Or you could submit an application on the basis of 'I can do this under PD, but want it 1m from the boundary' (have done that many times) and can't recall a refusal.
..don't forget, planning and Building Regs are quite separate, so at that size you will require Building Regs, and you will need to bear in mind who are the 'duty holders';
Client - you
Principal Designer - might be you?
Principal Contractor - are you going to get someone to build it? Or manage it... if the latter, are you suitably qualified?
Building anything is becoming harder and harder, then you have to find someone to build it and pay for it...
Most, if not all builders are quoting the standard £2500/m2 (as per the other thread) however I have recently completed a large extension (with me managing subcontractors and occasional labouring), legitimately employed bricklayer/general all rounder and a young labourer for 6 months (for the heavier lifting work...) came in at £1000/m2 (+vat).
That includes kitchen, appliances, floor finishes, etc. basically a finished building... the Mrs did the internal painting/wallpaper.
I worked on the basis that to be in a position to pay a contractor £100k(+vat) extra in profit/labour/etc., I would have to earn £200k (before tax, etc.) so it made more sense to take 12-18months 'off', project manage and be far better off financially.
Cheers Andy
Pic is the aerial of our house and the proposed garage.
I have asked Cornwall CC about removing the hedge for access and I am pretty sure I have to apply for that one first. No point doing it otherwise BUT a LOT and I mean a LOT of folks just bash thru and dont bother!!!
We will deffo be within all the other requirements. Ie the height, boundary etc etc
Pic is the aerial of our house and the proposed garage.
I have asked Cornwall CC about removing the hedge for access and I am pretty sure I have to apply for that one first. No point doing it otherwise BUT a LOT and I mean a LOT of folks just bash thru and dont bother!!!
We will deffo be within all the other requirements. Ie the height, boundary etc etc
Be wary of how the "principal elevation" is defined for that plot. You'd probably be OK, but corner plots with a road along each of two sides are sometimes deemed to have two.
As others have said, check that whole thing is actually designated as your garden rather than farm-land or similar.
As others have said, check that whole thing is actually designated as your garden rather than farm-land or similar.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 27th March 16:56
kambites said:
Be wary of how the "principal elevation" is defined for that plot. You'd probably be OK, but corner plots with a road along each of two sides are sometimes deemed to have two.
As others have said, check that whole thing is actually designated as your garden rather than farm-land or similar.
What he said; I can see them deciding the garden is only the cultivated area around your house and the field is excluded. It doesn't necessarily mean a shed can't be built but would need PP.As others have said, check that whole thing is actually designated as your garden rather than farm-land or similar.
If is not residential land then the rules say
“You can not construct residential building on agricultural land without changing the agricultural status of the land. However, you can construct any building or shed, to be used solely for the purpose of carrying out the agricultural work.”
The key question for you seems to be where the residential cartilage is defined so as to properly understand whether you can rely on PD.
I am not a expert but I would suspect that the residential cartilage follows the fence/hedge line around the house, if so, it would mean planning would be needed to change the land to residential and also planning for the actual building.
“You can not construct residential building on agricultural land without changing the agricultural status of the land. However, you can construct any building or shed, to be used solely for the purpose of carrying out the agricultural work.”
The key question for you seems to be where the residential cartilage is defined so as to properly understand whether you can rely on PD.
I am not a expert but I would suspect that the residential cartilage follows the fence/hedge line around the house, if so, it would mean planning would be needed to change the land to residential and also planning for the actual building.
Edited by skeeterm5 on Thursday 27th March 17:56
skeeterm5 said:
If is not residential land then the rules say
“You can not construct residential building on agricultural land without changing the agricultural status of the land. However, you can construct any building or shed, to be used solely for the purpose of carrying out the agricultural work.”
The key question for you seems to be where the residential cartilage is defined.
Well outside of my specialism now, but pretty sure those agricultural PD rights also only apply to holdings over 5 hectares. “You can not construct residential building on agricultural land without changing the agricultural status of the land. However, you can construct any building or shed, to be used solely for the purpose of carrying out the agricultural work.”
The key question for you seems to be where the residential cartilage is defined.
Looking at the OPs snip, I reckon he’s definitely on shakey ground and that a planning officer (pointed in the right direction by a nosey neighbour) might well try and argue that’s outside the residential curtilage.
If it was me, I’d be paying a local planning consultant for an hours worth of their time to look at it, before I built a 64m2 building.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff