Oil based floor varnish?
Discussion
Looking to get a coat of something onto one of our floors, which is broadly in reasonable condition, but needs recoating.
It's a living room with a rug in the centre, but the exposed part also forms the corridor to our backdoor, and we have a older dog who has a habit of having 'accidents' hence I am looking for something durable and waterproof.
Obviously the common option these days is a water-based polyurethane such as Bona Mega and I might just use Traffic HD and be done with it. However I have also used 'Bourne seal' original before now with good effect, and looking around there are a number of other oil/solvent based products.
A few options I have found:
Diversey BourneSeal https://eshop.diversey.co.uk/product/bourne-seal-2...
Johnstones floor varnish https://www.thepaintshed.com/johnstone-s-floor-var...
Ronseal solvent based interiorvarnish https://www.screwfix.com/p/ronseal-2-5ltr-clear-sa...
Palatine polyurethane floor varnish https://www.palatinepaints.co.uk/product/polyureth...
Liberon floor varnish https://restorate.co.uk/collections/floor-varnish/...
Fiddes clear glaze https://restorate.co.uk/products/fiddes-clear-glaz...
The floor is 1/4" thick oak tiles, pinned onto suspended wooden floor, and assumed to be the original edwardian floor.
Current coating is a 'water based varnish' according to the previous owners, and the majority of the floor is still ok, but I am not overly impressed with its durability and ability to resist said 'accidents' and certainly around the door the coating has broadly failed and will need some sanding and and or oxalic acid to removing blackening. The other room with the same flooring has obviously been sanded back hard at some point and is flat and smooth and light in colour and we might do this at some point in the future, but this floor has obviously not had that treatment and is darker and slightly mottled, presumably from a previous lighter sanding, and for now a needs a less invasive recoating just to protect it from daily use.
Cheers in advance.
It's a living room with a rug in the centre, but the exposed part also forms the corridor to our backdoor, and we have a older dog who has a habit of having 'accidents' hence I am looking for something durable and waterproof.
Obviously the common option these days is a water-based polyurethane such as Bona Mega and I might just use Traffic HD and be done with it. However I have also used 'Bourne seal' original before now with good effect, and looking around there are a number of other oil/solvent based products.
A few options I have found:
Diversey BourneSeal https://eshop.diversey.co.uk/product/bourne-seal-2...
Johnstones floor varnish https://www.thepaintshed.com/johnstone-s-floor-var...
Ronseal solvent based interiorvarnish https://www.screwfix.com/p/ronseal-2-5ltr-clear-sa...
Palatine polyurethane floor varnish https://www.palatinepaints.co.uk/product/polyureth...
Liberon floor varnish https://restorate.co.uk/collections/floor-varnish/...
Fiddes clear glaze https://restorate.co.uk/products/fiddes-clear-glaz...
The floor is 1/4" thick oak tiles, pinned onto suspended wooden floor, and assumed to be the original edwardian floor.
Current coating is a 'water based varnish' according to the previous owners, and the majority of the floor is still ok, but I am not overly impressed with its durability and ability to resist said 'accidents' and certainly around the door the coating has broadly failed and will need some sanding and and or oxalic acid to removing blackening. The other room with the same flooring has obviously been sanded back hard at some point and is flat and smooth and light in colour and we might do this at some point in the future, but this floor has obviously not had that treatment and is darker and slightly mottled, presumably from a previous lighter sanding, and for now a needs a less invasive recoating just to protect it from daily use.
Cheers in advance.
Edited by dhutch on Tuesday 25th March 14:02
RedWhiteMonkey said:
Personally, I'd move away from polyurethane based stuff and use something like Osmo Hardwax Oil. It dries quickly and doesn't stink.
Yeah, only issue with the Osmo is it seems very adamant that it cannot be applied over existing finish, and we're not taking it back to bare wood at this time.Another vote for Osmo here, but specifically Polyx. To be honest, I suspect you will be wasting your time attempting to recoat the floor without a proper sanding, regardless of what product you choose. It doesn't have to be done with a full sized floor sander, I refinished some second hand engineered oak flooring for my office quite successfully with a cheap belt sander recently, but I guess it depends on how much area you have to do!
We used Treatex Hard Wax Oil on our entire ground floor and various upstairs rooms and it seems to wear very well, although it does darken with age. Again though, you'd have to completely sand the floor before applying it.
My guess is that over-coating is going to look pretty rubbish whatever you use.
Floor drum sanders aren't expensive to hire but it's a pretty messy job even with vacuum extraction.
My guess is that over-coating is going to look pretty rubbish whatever you use.
Floor drum sanders aren't expensive to hire but it's a pretty messy job even with vacuum extraction.
Yeah its not the cost of hiring the machine that's the issue, but the time to do the job, including removing all the furniture etc.
Got a host of other commitments on my time currently, including the rest of the house, a toddler, and steam powered boat to retube.
Hence looking for the best thing I can put over what we have, after a good clean and light sand, to halt further degradation from muddy boots and dog urine.
Happy with a somewhat rustic feel, as it an older house with plenty of mixed aesthetics going on already, and will probably start by literally just doing to high traffic worn strip between the rug/carpet and the wall on the side the links the hallway to the back door.
Got a host of other commitments on my time currently, including the rest of the house, a toddler, and steam powered boat to retube.
Hence looking for the best thing I can put over what we have, after a good clean and light sand, to halt further degradation from muddy boots and dog urine.
Happy with a somewhat rustic feel, as it an older house with plenty of mixed aesthetics going on already, and will probably start by literally just doing to high traffic worn strip between the rug/carpet and the wall on the side the links the hallway to the back door.
I've used Johnstone's oil-based floor varnish on two floors.
The first one was brilliant, great finish, dried reasonably quickly easy to use.
The second one, it took forever to dry and IMHO was less easy to use.
They've changed the recipe to meet modern standards.
Is it VOC 2010 (from memory so likely wrong!)
Having said that, it wore pretty well, just a few scratches after 5 years IIRC.
I would just use a water-based polyurethane these days.
Ronseal Diamond Hard is probably as good as any, although if you've got patio doors or other big windows, you might look for something with more UV protection to reduce colour changes in the wood.
The first one was brilliant, great finish, dried reasonably quickly easy to use.
The second one, it took forever to dry and IMHO was less easy to use.
They've changed the recipe to meet modern standards.
Is it VOC 2010 (from memory so likely wrong!)
Having said that, it wore pretty well, just a few scratches after 5 years IIRC.
I would just use a water-based polyurethane these days.
Ronseal Diamond Hard is probably as good as any, although if you've got patio doors or other big windows, you might look for something with more UV protection to reduce colour changes in the wood.
If you want something properly hard wearing then you want a 2-part varnish - I've used this on a couple of kitchens and it's very hard wearing:
Sadolin floor varnish
I've used osmo polyx, and while it gives a beautiful colour to the wood, it's not remotely hard wearing... Scuffs Nd scratches very easily.
Sadolin floor varnish
I've used osmo polyx, and while it gives a beautiful colour to the wood, it's not remotely hard wearing... Scuffs Nd scratches very easily.
Fatboy said:
If you want something properly hard wearing then you want a 2-part varnish - I've used this on a couple of kitchens and it's very hard wearing:
Sadolin floor varnish
I've used osmo polyx, and while it gives a beautiful colour to the wood, it's not remotely hard wearing... Scuffs Nd scratches very easily.
I use 2 pack International varnish on carbon fibre boat masts.Sadolin floor varnish
I've used osmo polyx, and while it gives a beautiful colour to the wood, it's not remotely hard wearing... Scuffs Nd scratches very easily.
It's very tough and has the best UV filtering and resistance that I'm aware of, which is important for protecting the epoxy resin of the carbon fibre composite parts. It's good looking on wood too, as it's gin-clear, not amber or yellow. Costs more than most gin though!
The downside though is that many 2-pack paints/varnishes cannot be applied over most single pack paints/varnishes.
I'm also aware of people having issues with some single pack varnishes over epoxy and some water based varnish over certain oil-based varnish unless it's cured for a very long time.
Things may have moved on though, these days most cars are painted with water-based 2 pack paint/lacquer?
There are 2-pack acryllics and 2 pack polyurethanes and 2 pack epoxies.
I don't know all the answers on this, but I'm aware there are questions!
Fatboy said:
If you want something properly hard wearing then you want a 2-part varnish - I've used this on a couple of kitchens and it's very hard wearing:
Sadolin floor varnish
I've used osmo polyx, and while it gives a beautiful colour to the wood, it's not remotely hard wearing... Scuffs Nd scratches very easily.
Yeah, a number have recommend Sadolin PV67 in past threads, and I am not at all put off by a two pack product, having used 2k epoxy and urethene finishes in a marine application many times. However it appears unlike an Oil-Based varnish, or even Bona Traffic HD Sadolin is not good over existing varnish.Sadolin floor varnish
I've used osmo polyx, and while it gives a beautiful colour to the wood, it's not remotely hard wearing... Scuffs Nd scratches very easily.
Previously Coated Wood
Sadolin PV67 Heavy Duty Varnish should not be applied to conventional single pack varnishes, either solvent-based or waterborne
If in any doubt about the nature of an existing finish, it must be completely stripped back to bare wood and treated as 'New Timber'
Preparation of Pre-Varnished Floors
Bona Traffic HD will normally have very good adhesion to pre-varnished flooring, however, it is advisable to check the intercoat adhesion prior to overcoating. To check intercoat adhesion, apply a coat of Bona Traffic HD to a pre-prepared area. Allow the coating to set for 3 days then scratch the treated floor surface gently with a coin. If the Bona Traffic finish stays firmly attached to the surface, the adhesion is satisfactory and the main application can begin.
Preparation of Wax, Oiled or Polished Floors
Floors pre-treated with waxes, polishes or other similar products cannot be overcoated with Bona Traffic HD and should be fully sanded back to bare wood to at least 120 grit, then primed with a suitable wood primer.
OutInTheShed said:
I've used Johnstone's oil-based floor varnish on two floors.
The first one was brilliant, great finish, dried reasonably quickly easy to use.
The second one, it took forever to dry and IMHO was less easy to use.
They've changed the recipe to meet modern standards.
Is it VOC 2010 (from memory so likely wrong!)
Having said that, it wore pretty well, just a few scratches after 5 years IIRC.
I would just use a water-based polyurethane these days.
Hummm.The first one was brilliant, great finish, dried reasonably quickly easy to use.
The second one, it took forever to dry and IMHO was less easy to use.
They've changed the recipe to meet modern standards.
Is it VOC 2010 (from memory so likely wrong!)
Having said that, it wore pretty well, just a few scratches after 5 years IIRC.
I would just use a water-based polyurethane these days.
Seems like they are slowly mopping up the traditional oil based coatings. Again, easy of use doesnt scare me too much, but a long drying time (how long are we talking) is going going to be more awkward to manage in this room than any other, due to it being the connection to the back door.
Not impossible, we can go out through the garage for a week if we have to, just not ideal.
Maybe I just suck it all up a slap a couple of coats of Bona Mega and or Ronseal diamond hard floor, one pack waterbased pu varnish.
dhutch said:
Hummm.
Seems like they are slowly mopping up the traditional oil based coatings. Again, easy of use doesnt scare me too much, but a long drying time (how long are we talking) is going going to be more awkward to manage in this room than any other, due to it being the connection to the back door.
Not impossible, we can go out through the garage for a week if we have to, just not ideal.
Maybe I just suck it all up a slap a couple of coats of Bona Mega and or Ronseal diamond hard floor, one pack waterbased pu varnish.
I don't think 'traditional oil based coating ' is the right phrase.Seems like they are slowly mopping up the traditional oil based coatings. Again, easy of use doesnt scare me too much, but a long drying time (how long are we talking) is going going to be more awkward to manage in this room than any other, due to it being the connection to the back door.
Not impossible, we can go out through the garage for a week if we have to, just not ideal.
Maybe I just suck it all up a slap a couple of coats of Bona Mega and or Ronseal diamond hard floor, one pack waterbased pu varnish.
It could mean tung oil type varnishes not modern (60s modern!) synthetic stuff.
I don't remember the date I did it on, but it was fairly warm. The stuff didn't even go touch dry for more than 6 hours.
Possibly the problem was lack of ventilation or the air too dry, but ventilation brings dust.
we left it for a few days before putting a second coat on, then went away for two weeks before moving furniture in.
OutInTheShed said:
I don't remember the date I did it on, but it was fairly warm. The stuff didn't even go touch dry for more than 6 hours.
Possibly the problem was lack of ventilation or the air too dry, but ventilation brings dust.
we left it for a few days before putting a second coat on, then went away for two weeks before moving furniture in.
Fair enough. Doing it just before a holiday isnt a bad call either!Possibly the problem was lack of ventilation or the air too dry, but ventilation brings dust.
we left it for a few days before putting a second coat on, then went away for two weeks before moving furniture in.
OutInTheShed said:
I don't think 'traditional oil based coating ' is the right phrase.
It could mean tung oil type varnishes not modern (60s modern!) synthetic stuff.
Yeah ok, I guess I am I am talking oil/solvent based one part synthetic/polyurethane varnishes.It could mean tung oil type varnishes not modern (60s modern!) synthetic stuff.
Rather than tung/teak/danish oil type finishes, or a solvent based hard wax type finish.
But yeah, maybe its looking like waterbased is the way to go. Either a one pot solution like Bona Mega, Ronseal Diamondhard, or maybe Bona Traffic HD as a two part that appear happy to go over existing coating.
kambites said:
We used Treatex Hard Wax Oil on our entire ground floor and various upstairs rooms and it seems to wear very well, although it does darken with age. Again though, you'd have to completely sand the floor before applying it.
My guess is that over-coating is going to look pretty rubbish whatever you use.
Floor drum sanders aren't expensive to hire but it's a pretty messy job even with vacuum extraction.
I'd agree. I hired a sander, sanded the floor of the cottage, then used Osmo. Stood up to puppies, dogs, moving furniture - all sorts over 6 yearsMy guess is that over-coating is going to look pretty rubbish whatever you use.
Floor drum sanders aren't expensive to hire but it's a pretty messy job even with vacuum extraction.
Sorry to thread hijack, but I have a similiar question....
I put in new floorboards on our hallway last year and on the other halfs instruction I used a few coats of this: https://www.diy.com/departments/goodhome-walnut-sa...
The colour tone is great but it isnt that tough or longlasting.
What would be the best product to sit on top of it to add an extra layer of protection - without any sanding it all back?
Cheers
I put in new floorboards on our hallway last year and on the other halfs instruction I used a few coats of this: https://www.diy.com/departments/goodhome-walnut-sa...
The colour tone is great but it isnt that tough or longlasting.
What would be the best product to sit on top of it to add an extra layer of protection - without any sanding it all back?
Cheers
Sorry to jump in OP, but I've been reading this thread with interest as I'm sanding a bedroom floor next week, and remain undecided how to finish it, and it seemed silly to start a new thread.
What a peoples experience of a matt finish vs a gloss finish? In my last house I choose a satin which I always regretted, as it looked like a gloss floor that wasn't clean and needed a polish.
I was going to use Manns primer and top coat, but this thread has now left me unsure!
What a peoples experience of a matt finish vs a gloss finish? In my last house I choose a satin which I always regretted, as it looked like a gloss floor that wasn't clean and needed a polish.
I was going to use Manns primer and top coat, but this thread has now left me unsure!
Dr Murdoch said:
Sorry to jump in OP, but I've been reading this thread with interest as I'm sanding a bedroom floor next week, and remain undecided how to finish it, and it seemed silly to start a new thread.
What a peoples experience of a matt finish vs a gloss finish? In my last house I choose a satin which I always regretted, as it looked like a gloss floor that wasn't clean and needed a polish.
I was going to use Manns primer and top coat, but this thread has now left me unsure!
The sheen of 'satin' finish may vary from product to product and depend somewhat on who wielded the brush.What a peoples experience of a matt finish vs a gloss finish? In my last house I choose a satin which I always regretted, as it looked like a gloss floor that wasn't clean and needed a polish.
I was going to use Manns primer and top coat, but this thread has now left me unsure!
But I've always been happy with a satin finish for floors.
Gloss is good for the deck of a sailing dinghy or some furniture.
High gloss can give irritating reflections sometimes?
It's not a big deal to me. Whatever you want.
A nice bit of wood remains a nice bit of wood.
For some things, IMHO the best finish is several coats of clear gloss with one satin on top. This gives a deep, clear finish and avoids the muddy effect of too much 'stuff' in the varnish.
But we're talking about a floor. It's just the floor, you walk on it, you put things on it, it should not be the most important thing in the room.
TwistingMyMelon said:
Sorry to thread hijack, but I have a similiar question....
I put in new floorboards on our hallway last year and on the other halfs instruction I used a few coats of this: https://www.diy.com/departments/goodhome-walnut-sa...
The colour tone is great but it isnt that tough or longlasting.
What would be the best product to sit on top of it to add an extra layer of protection - without any sanding it all back?
Cheers
Personally, I would have put a couple of coats of clear (as in not coloured) satin such as Ronseal Diamond Hard on top as a wear layer.I put in new floorboards on our hallway last year and on the other halfs instruction I used a few coats of this: https://www.diy.com/departments/goodhome-walnut-sa...
The colour tone is great but it isnt that tough or longlasting.
What would be the best product to sit on top of it to add an extra layer of protection - without any sanding it all back?
Cheers
Then you can give it a quick sand and a fresh coat when it gets scratched or just after 5 years of wear.
But now your varnish has been down a while, you should lightly sand it before re-coating. Just take the surface off with 400 grit production paper or similar. It may not be easy to do this without affecting the coloured layer in some places, so you may want to touch that up.
OutInTheShed said:
TwistingMyMelon said:
Sorry to thread hijack, but I have a similiar question....
I put in new floorboards on our hallway last year and on the other halfs instruction I used a few coats of this: https://www.diy.com/departments/goodhome-walnut-sa...
The colour tone is great but it isnt that tough or longlasting.
What would be the best product to sit on top of it to add an extra layer of protection - without any sanding it all back?
Cheers
Personally, I would have put a couple of coats of clear (as in not coloured) satin such as Ronseal Diamond Hard on top as a wear layer.I put in new floorboards on our hallway last year and on the other halfs instruction I used a few coats of this: https://www.diy.com/departments/goodhome-walnut-sa...
The colour tone is great but it isnt that tough or longlasting.
What would be the best product to sit on top of it to add an extra layer of protection - without any sanding it all back?
Cheers
Then you can give it a quick sand and a fresh coat when it gets scratched or just after 5 years of wear.
But now your varnish has been down a while, you should lightly sand it before re-coating. Just take the surface off with 400 grit production paper or similar. It may not be easy to do this without affecting the coloured layer in some places, so you may want to touch that up.
As per the original, a very light sand and recoat with clear would be my call. In fact I would even be tempted to skip the light sand completely in favour of a good wash with flash (or equiv) a fine 'scotchbrite' pad, as any high spots will already have been abraded off by the foot traffic which will also have left a nice key, so all you want is to make sure its clean. Maybe a very light sand at the edges where there is no traffic if there is any trace of raised grain and or encapsulated dust.
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