Broken nipple :)
Discussion
I would appreciate everyone's thoughts on this - still not sure which way I am going go...
I recently had my car serviced by a mobile Porsche specialist who I have used for years, historically without issue. They came out to do a major service on my car and all was going well until they got to the last item, replacing the brake fluid. The mechanic looked like he had finished and was packed up, then told me he was done, but all apart from one caveat, ' the front calliper nipple has sheared off' along with 'it happens all the time etc'.
This was a bit annoying as he couldn't bleed the front brakes, however I thought it was just a frustration as at the end of the day s
t happens and surely they would fix it. He then told me I would have to bring the car into their workshop (2 hrs away ) to have the calliper removed and the nipple machined out - All of which I would have to pay for!
Having spent over £1k on the service, I think this issue would be something they would have cover as in my opinion, I'm paying them to not gorilla something to death, if somethings seized your don't just force it without trying release agent, heat etc first, especially if you know ' these snap all the time'. Best of all if you know its likely to break, it would of taken him 30 seconds to ask me If I wanted to risk it.
Following an angry call to the head office, the owner called me to to tell me he would call me back with a solution the following morning - 2 days later I'm still waiting. To make me more annoyed, I was really busy so paid him just before he snapped it off, meaning I've paid for brake fluid replacement, without even getting it!!!
Having slept on it, I'm thinking about pursuing it legally following a recorded delivery letter, however what's the PH perspective?
P.S - just had a quote from an indy - £450-500
I recently had my car serviced by a mobile Porsche specialist who I have used for years, historically without issue. They came out to do a major service on my car and all was going well until they got to the last item, replacing the brake fluid. The mechanic looked like he had finished and was packed up, then told me he was done, but all apart from one caveat, ' the front calliper nipple has sheared off' along with 'it happens all the time etc'.
This was a bit annoying as he couldn't bleed the front brakes, however I thought it was just a frustration as at the end of the day s
t happens and surely they would fix it. He then told me I would have to bring the car into their workshop (2 hrs away ) to have the calliper removed and the nipple machined out - All of which I would have to pay for!Having spent over £1k on the service, I think this issue would be something they would have cover as in my opinion, I'm paying them to not gorilla something to death, if somethings seized your don't just force it without trying release agent, heat etc first, especially if you know ' these snap all the time'. Best of all if you know its likely to break, it would of taken him 30 seconds to ask me If I wanted to risk it.
Following an angry call to the head office, the owner called me to to tell me he would call me back with a solution the following morning - 2 days later I'm still waiting. To make me more annoyed, I was really busy so paid him just before he snapped it off, meaning I've paid for brake fluid replacement, without even getting it!!!
Having slept on it, I'm thinking about pursuing it legally following a recorded delivery letter, however what's the PH perspective?
P.S - just had a quote from an indy - £450-500
Edited by Four Litre on Friday 21st March 17:17
Edited by Four Litre on Friday 21st March 17:34
You could always replace the brake line banjo bolt with one with a bleed nipple in, otherwise machining out is really the only option. I also believe that them shearing off on porches is not uncommon as a mate has a Boxster and had the same issue, he went for refurbished calipers on exchange.
The garage will only be liable if they have been negligent. So you could takt it to small claims and see what happens if you have the energy. The court would decide if they have been negligent. I was not there, but just the fact that it sheared is not concrete proof of their negligence.
Brake bleed nipples do corrode in place and shear off, but only if they haven't been moved for years. If you've been paying for a brake fluid change every 2 years, and this year it's snapped off, that one's not been done on schedule.
Either way, you're stuck with it. Stuff breaks, garages wash their hands of it. Get the caliper removed and a machine shop to sort it out, it'll be a lot less than £500.
Either way, you're stuck with it. Stuff breaks, garages wash their hands of it. Get the caliper removed and a machine shop to sort it out, it'll be a lot less than £500.
Common risk on any brake caliper but more so on aluminium calipers with steel nipples. They either come out or they shear. Most painted Porsche calipers make it impossible to get enough heat into to make any appreciable difference to the stuck'ness of the nipple without damaging the coating on the caliper.
The suggested action of take it off the car and machine it out is correct, it's not possible to do it on the car with sufficient accuracy to ensure the relationship between the seat and nipple is within acceptable tolerance otherwise.
This isn't a f**k up on their part, it's just a failure of an aging component. To mitigate in future you can replace the nipples every time the caliper is bled or fit nipples made from a material which is less likely to seize in aluminium.
Agree a heads up that "10% of these at this age shear, are you sure you want me to do this work" would have been sensible, but with that said I'd be expecting to pay for it if it was mine.
The suggested action of take it off the car and machine it out is correct, it's not possible to do it on the car with sufficient accuracy to ensure the relationship between the seat and nipple is within acceptable tolerance otherwise.
This isn't a f**k up on their part, it's just a failure of an aging component. To mitigate in future you can replace the nipples every time the caliper is bled or fit nipples made from a material which is less likely to seize in aluminium.
Agree a heads up that "10% of these at this age shear, are you sure you want me to do this work" would have been sensible, but with that said I'd be expecting to pay for it if it was mine.
Krikkit said:
Brake bleed nipples do corrode in place and shear off, but only if they haven't been moved for years.
On normal stuff yes, on things with that generation of Brembo monoblock that's not the case. The combination of the thin wall of the bleed nipple, the face it losing anti corrosion coating each time it is wound out to bleed and the required tightening torque means they should (IMHO) be considered single use but that's not specified anywhere. They can be fine one year and shear the next.Same happened on mine in January at a Porsche main dealer. I wasn’t happy, but in the end it was sorted by a specialist they bought in for £120. He hoped to sort it in situ but ended up having to remove the caliper and take it back to his workshop and bring it back the following day.
You won't get anywhere with legal action. It's such a common issue these days that you'd have real trouble proving negligence.
The dealership that maintains my Aston pointed out that my car's (Brembo) bleed nipples were looking worse for wear and there could well be problems with seized or snapped nipples at the fluid change the following year.
So I went preemptive on the month before the service was due and gave each nipple a squirt of penetrating fluid every evening for about two and a half weeks. I then went round and cracked each one off in turn before taking the car down for its service.
The dealership that maintains my Aston pointed out that my car's (Brembo) bleed nipples were looking worse for wear and there could well be problems with seized or snapped nipples at the fluid change the following year.
So I went preemptive on the month before the service was due and gave each nipple a squirt of penetrating fluid every evening for about two and a half weeks. I then went round and cracked each one off in turn before taking the car down for its service.
I had one shear off on my 944 S2, whipped the calliper off and got it in the vice (with some rags either side, I’m not an animal). Carefully drilled it out using a couple of different sized drills, the heat and vibration of the drilling freed the remainder of the old nipple.
Ordered some correct spares from eBay, £8.44 delivered and popped it back together when they arrived a couple of days later.
“Pursuing it legally”, a bleed nipple breaks off, quick, call the lawyers ffs !
Ordered some correct spares from eBay, £8.44 delivered and popped it back together when they arrived a couple of days later.
“Pursuing it legally”, a bleed nipple breaks off, quick, call the lawyers ffs !
Edited by J4CKO on Friday 21st March 23:31
Oh, and then when you go to remove the alloy hub to remove the remainder of the seized bolts the steel track rod end insert gets pulled out of the alloy hub when you try to remove the track rod end ball joint from the hub...
Then the steel power steering rack pipe corroded and leaks and you can't remove the unions as they are corroded into the alloy rack...
Porsche ownership
Then the steel power steering rack pipe corroded and leaks and you can't remove the unions as they are corroded into the alloy rack...
Porsche ownership
When I had my Opel Kadett C Caravan, this was happening quite often on mine and other Opelz.
We got the remains out usually by soaking in anti-seize and then tapping a small triangular scraper in the remains,
the three hard edges were biting into the softer nipple material enough to get the sucker turning,
without damaging the thread in the caliper.
But if I had a workshop around who would repair it for 40 quid, I had gone there.
We got the remains out usually by soaking in anti-seize and then tapping a small triangular scraper in the remains,
the three hard edges were biting into the softer nipple material enough to get the sucker turning,
without damaging the thread in the caliper.
But if I had a workshop around who would repair it for 40 quid, I had gone there.
As others have said, this is very much expected for brembo brakes on these cars.
I did discs/ pads on my boxster last spring. Had two trackdays booked for the summer so I left the nipples well alone!
The only thing they’ve done slightly wrong with you, is to not warn you first. End of the day your brakes are still working with a snapped nipple. So it was always going to happen at some point if you wish to change the fluid.
All you’ve done by kicking off is reduce your choice of specialist because once you’ve sued them or indeed hammered the boss verbally, next time you want some mobile work doing, I expect you’ll find they are busy or all of a sudden more expensive.
I’ll probably wait now until mine comes off the road in autumn and then I have all winter to soak/ loosen my nipples and pray I can replace them without removing calipers.
I did discs/ pads on my boxster last spring. Had two trackdays booked for the summer so I left the nipples well alone!
The only thing they’ve done slightly wrong with you, is to not warn you first. End of the day your brakes are still working with a snapped nipple. So it was always going to happen at some point if you wish to change the fluid.
All you’ve done by kicking off is reduce your choice of specialist because once you’ve sued them or indeed hammered the boss verbally, next time you want some mobile work doing, I expect you’ll find they are busy or all of a sudden more expensive.
I’ll probably wait now until mine comes off the road in autumn and then I have all winter to soak/ loosen my nipples and pray I can replace them without removing calipers.
Eazi out?
It's reading Paul's comments above that make me think I should sell mine.
The Porsche indie who did a service on my car a couple of years ago doesn't like working on Boxsters, he told me so.
And I've contacted a coupe of times for another service/some work and they never get back to me.
It's reading Paul's comments above that make me think I should sell mine.
The Porsche indie who did a service on my car a couple of years ago doesn't like working on Boxsters, he told me so.
And I've contacted a coupe of times for another service/some work and they never get back to me.
Cold said:
So I went preemptive on the month before the service was due and gave each nipple a squirt of penetrating fluid every evening for about two and a half weeks. I then went round and cracked each one off in turn before taking the car down for its service.
Once removed a (presumably) 15ish year old set of Ford Focus droplinks with a spanner and an Allen key (droplinks are usually a hacksaw or angle grinder job) by asking the owner (mate's lad trying to get £300 Focus through an MOT) to do exactly this every day for a fortnight prior.It does work for components known to be troublesome...
Sh happens, and it's common with such calipers.
Largely due to blatant neglect at servicing, and indeed initial installation at the factory where they apply no anti-seize on the threads. So they are doomed to fail unless someone gets off their backside and introduces anti-seize as early as possible, and ensures this is part of routine servicing.
Also, copious use of harsh wheel cleaners also speeds up any corrosion that leads to seizing.
A similar recent thread
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
And often the caliper bolts/threads can screw up in a similar fashion too, for all the same reasons across a wide range of alloy calipers.
Largely due to blatant neglect at servicing, and indeed initial installation at the factory where they apply no anti-seize on the threads. So they are doomed to fail unless someone gets off their backside and introduces anti-seize as early as possible, and ensures this is part of routine servicing.
Also, copious use of harsh wheel cleaners also speeds up any corrosion that leads to seizing.
A similar recent thread
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
And often the caliper bolts/threads can screw up in a similar fashion too, for all the same reasons across a wide range of alloy calipers.
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