Exige s2 - what are they *really* like?
Discussion
Morning everyone,
I used to have an early elise s2 that I sold a few years ago in part because I didn't love the engine and wanted something slightly more useable, and in part because of a former gf that made a point of saying she hated it everytime we got in it
I ended up buying an nd2 184hp mx5 which I love but...
...I really always just wanted an s2 exige I f**king love the looks and the engine - so im studying buying one
Didn't get one before because of budget reasons at the time (Im in france - an na exige here is at least 40k which I dont think they're really worth) but I'm thinking about getting one now, before I start spending too much money on mods for my mx5 as I want to track it every month or so, and a stock mx5 is fun but a bit lacking handling wise.
My questions are:
- Are high mileage Exiges (NA included) reliable? I'd consider buying a high-mileage one and have no guilt about adding miles to it as I use it all around europe. I know the worn camshafts are a thing in the 2zz engines, and that sc cars suffer from synchro issues/need dry sumps/suffer a bit from heatsoak on track?
- Are they the same as an 111r except slightly different suspension setup + looks?
- Can they be used out of the box as I want them to or do they need mods to perform?
- Can they be tweaked to get the same brake feel as I had in my k-series elise? Tried an exige 240 a few years ago and loved everything about it except the really odd brake feel/travel (my old elise ruined so many other cars for me...)
I used to have an early elise s2 that I sold a few years ago in part because I didn't love the engine and wanted something slightly more useable, and in part because of a former gf that made a point of saying she hated it everytime we got in it
I ended up buying an nd2 184hp mx5 which I love but...
...I really always just wanted an s2 exige I f**king love the looks and the engine - so im studying buying one
Didn't get one before because of budget reasons at the time (Im in france - an na exige here is at least 40k which I dont think they're really worth) but I'm thinking about getting one now, before I start spending too much money on mods for my mx5 as I want to track it every month or so, and a stock mx5 is fun but a bit lacking handling wise.
My questions are:
- Are high mileage Exiges (NA included) reliable? I'd consider buying a high-mileage one and have no guilt about adding miles to it as I use it all around europe. I know the worn camshafts are a thing in the 2zz engines, and that sc cars suffer from synchro issues/need dry sumps/suffer a bit from heatsoak on track?
- Are they the same as an 111r except slightly different suspension setup + looks?
- Can they be used out of the box as I want them to or do they need mods to perform?
- Can they be tweaked to get the same brake feel as I had in my k-series elise? Tried an exige 240 a few years ago and loved everything about it except the really odd brake feel/travel (my old elise ruined so many other cars for me...)
1. Mine was a higher mileage car and utterly reliable over the years I had it. Consumables only. Air con never worked as standard with any lotus but worth flagging given you live somewhere where you might need air con.
2. That is my understanding. A slightly more hardcore 111R. I have driven a 111R and agree it didn’t feel much different. I bought the Exige on aesthetics.
3. Second one was with an after market supercharger, ohlins and quite a few other mods. I’d certainly advocate getting a supercharged car.
4. Can’t comment - sorry.
2. That is my understanding. A slightly more hardcore 111R. I have driven a 111R and agree it didn’t feel much different. I bought the Exige on aesthetics.
3. Second one was with an after market supercharger, ohlins and quite a few other mods. I’d certainly advocate getting a supercharged car.
4. Can’t comment - sorry.
Loafers92 said:
Thanks Schnozz
I'd love an sc version as well but in mainland europe they're around 50/55k
Good to know they're reliable at least in your experience. About the Ac, is it just that most of the time they dont work or it works but its underpowered to cool the cabin?
Yeah, I feel your pain. I have a house in Spain and its similar there with pricing. I have a large garage that I intend to fill with toys but the price difference has meant its going to take much longer than it would if it was UK side...but then the resale remains higher when you ultimately go to sell I guess. I personally think the SC is worth it but plenty do argue the NA car is enough, especially if you have it programmed to bring down the RPM at which the second cam comes on power.I'd love an sc version as well but in mainland europe they're around 50/55k
Good to know they're reliable at least in your experience. About the Ac, is it just that most of the time they dont work or it works but its underpowered to cool the cabin?
I guess France will also be similar to Spain in terms of modifications and issues - otherwise you could always add an aftermarket supercharger to a NA car. Mine was aftermarket rather than an Exige S from factory.
AC wise - Lotus seem to suffer many, many issues. In fact, of the Elises/Exiges I have owned, every one of them had AC fitted came into my ownership with it not working. And on my latest Exige, that cost a small fortune to fix. I had a supposed warranty (long ongoing story) but the compressor was a £3k part alone...overall bill would have been circa £6k. As it happens, and not least because the compressor was on back order with no known date for supply, my mechanic managed to source a third party solution at less than a third of that price but the fix was still just under £3k all in. I think that is why many simply don't bother getting it fixed. I had no option really (and was hoping the warranty would cover it anyway) because I was taking my car down to Spain where AC is a must.
Loafers92 said:
Morning everyone,
I used to have an early elise s2 that I sold a few years ago in part because I didn't love the engine and wanted something slightly more useable, and in part because of a former gf that made a point of saying she hated it everytime we got in it
I ended up buying an nd2 184hp mx5 which I love but...
...I really always just wanted an s2 exige I f**king love the looks and the engine - so im studying buying one
Didn't get one before because of budget reasons at the time (Im in france - an na exige here is at least 40k which I dont think they're really worth) but I'm thinking about getting one now, before I start spending too much money on mods for my mx5 as I want to track it every month or so, and a stock mx5 is fun but a bit lacking handling wise.
My questions are:
- Are high mileage Exiges (NA included) reliable? I'd consider buying a high-mileage one and have no guilt about adding miles to it as I use it all around europe. I know the worn camshafts are a thing in the 2zz engines, and that sc cars suffer from synchro issues/need dry sumps/suffer a bit from heatsoak on track?
- Are they the same as an 111r except slightly different suspension setup + looks?
- Can they be used out of the box as I want them to or do they need mods to perform?
- Can they be tweaked to get the same brake feel as I had in my k-series elise? Tried an exige 240 a few years ago and loved everything about it except the really odd brake feel/travel (my old elise ruined so many other cars for me...)
1. I think the broad answer to that is yes. Some of these cars obviously get used very hard and that can take its toll but if you ignore the SC element for a second the 2ZZ is in many a Celica and many of them have done big miles. The SC itself seems very robust and doesn't seem to stress the engine too much but the gearbox is the weakest link. Doesn't seem to be such a big deal on NA cars or even the lower end of the SC power range but higher powered cars seem to test the box a bit. Even then though, we're talking about Toyota repair/replacement costs rathe than anything exotic. Everything else is fairly normal Elise platform stuff. Suspension can wear but high mileage cars have likely seen a fair bit of work in that area anyway so highly unlikely to be running on anything original. Bushes, ball joints etc all cheap enough. If shocks need doing, prices range from okayish to OMG so it's worth checking what sort of age/mileage those are at. Some options can be rebuilt too. Usual checks for wear and tear apply. Less of a problem on S2's but work having a little look at the chassis where the wishbones mount as well and check no nasty corrosion is going on. Check for paint blistering etc..I used to have an early elise s2 that I sold a few years ago in part because I didn't love the engine and wanted something slightly more useable, and in part because of a former gf that made a point of saying she hated it everytime we got in it
I ended up buying an nd2 184hp mx5 which I love but...
...I really always just wanted an s2 exige I f**king love the looks and the engine - so im studying buying one
Didn't get one before because of budget reasons at the time (Im in france - an na exige here is at least 40k which I dont think they're really worth) but I'm thinking about getting one now, before I start spending too much money on mods for my mx5 as I want to track it every month or so, and a stock mx5 is fun but a bit lacking handling wise.
My questions are:
- Are high mileage Exiges (NA included) reliable? I'd consider buying a high-mileage one and have no guilt about adding miles to it as I use it all around europe. I know the worn camshafts are a thing in the 2zz engines, and that sc cars suffer from synchro issues/need dry sumps/suffer a bit from heatsoak on track?
- Are they the same as an 111r except slightly different suspension setup + looks?
- Can they be used out of the box as I want them to or do they need mods to perform?
- Can they be tweaked to get the same brake feel as I had in my k-series elise? Tried an exige 240 a few years ago and loved everything about it except the really odd brake feel/travel (my old elise ruined so many other cars for me...)
2. Yep. Pretty much that. At least in the case of the NA cars. And even the SC cars are basically the same other than the obvious addition of the charger and its ancillaries and plumbing. 111R and Exiges left the factory with different wheel, tyre and suspension set ups but since it's all interchangeable and these cars are all getting on a bit now, many are not using the same kit they left the factory with anyway. I think the biggest reason to buy the Exige is for the looks. It's why I bought mine over an Elise. Absolutely no regrets.
3. I think this is a yes. They'll be fine out the box road or track but doesn't mean you won't ultimately want to tinker with it like so many others do. But no need to second guess that. You can figure out over time what works and what doesn't for you.
4. Short answer is no. k-series S2 had no servo and and no ABS. You'll never match that with the servo cars. But... I will say that you can do a lot to improve things. When I bought my own car, it was running quite track biased pads which were absolutely awful on the road as they had so little initial bite. Since I use my car exclusively on the road (for now) I switched to Mintex pads which I know would not work as well on track but were so much better in terms of feel on the road. They transformed my ability to be progressive and modulate the brakes and gave suitable bit at lower pedal pressure which made Heel and Toe far easier on the road at least. I also ended up swapping to braided lines, fancy stahlbus bleed nipples and posh brake fluid and all of that seemed to improve things even more. The nipples should make no difference but it meant that I cold get every last hint of air out the system which isn't always easy on Lotus brakes. With all that done, I'm very happy with the brakes. I do slightly miss my S1 set up but can't have it all.
I think I have a unicorn Exige in that my AC does in fact work. Or at least it did when I last drove it. I probably shouldn't temp fate. They do break!
NA Exige with the Toyota lump is very reliable. Did 7-8 years of track days and drive home every time without any issues (I can't say the same for many of the k series and modified variants 
). Only one fault to mind, a sticking throttle body which required a replacement.
Due to the high revving engine, on road driving can get annoying as you are off cam most of the time, but a non issue for track. I fitted a new OEM ECU with a lower cam point (5700 instead of 6200) which remove the abrupt 'shove' at 6200. NA is still a great car, but If budget permit and you only do road driving, the OEM Supercharged (220, 240 or 260) would be ideal (avoid 3rd party SC remaps is my other advice).
Suspension - all the same, but I would be surprised if any are on OEM bilsteins shocks due to the age of these cars, if so, I would check for leaks! (I have single Nitrons and Eibach springs).
Servo brakes will never feel the same to the k series as explained above! Iirc, the Exige throttle pedal sits quite high which made H&T quite difficult. Easy solution, just lower the throttle pedal which mean I could roll my feet to blip the throttle as required.
Aircon is hit & miss. My Aircon was fixed by Lotus Glasgow (no longer there) by the previous owner where they replaced the leaking pipes inside the sills (a real bugger to get into) and it's been fine ever since. I really appreciate it driving around France, Belgium and Germany etc.. especially sitting a foot away from the engine bay and in the heat of summer!!!
). Only one fault to mind, a sticking throttle body which required a replacement.Due to the high revving engine, on road driving can get annoying as you are off cam most of the time, but a non issue for track. I fitted a new OEM ECU with a lower cam point (5700 instead of 6200) which remove the abrupt 'shove' at 6200. NA is still a great car, but If budget permit and you only do road driving, the OEM Supercharged (220, 240 or 260) would be ideal (avoid 3rd party SC remaps is my other advice).
Suspension - all the same, but I would be surprised if any are on OEM bilsteins shocks due to the age of these cars, if so, I would check for leaks! (I have single Nitrons and Eibach springs).
Servo brakes will never feel the same to the k series as explained above! Iirc, the Exige throttle pedal sits quite high which made H&T quite difficult. Easy solution, just lower the throttle pedal which mean I could roll my feet to blip the throttle as required.
Aircon is hit & miss. My Aircon was fixed by Lotus Glasgow (no longer there) by the previous owner where they replaced the leaking pipes inside the sills (a real bugger to get into) and it's been fine ever since. I really appreciate it driving around France, Belgium and Germany etc.. especially sitting a foot away from the engine bay and in the heat of summer!!!
Edited by chip* on Wednesday 19th March 16:25
Interesting to hear from other Exige owners that they bought on looks - I did as well! Drove an Elise Sports Racer and a S3 supercharged Elise and found I liked the high revving engine and the mid-range torque, so went for the supercharged Exige.
Anyway, my take on your questions is:
1. Yes basically reliable
2. Suspension, pretty much the same but not many Exiges are on standard bilsteins these days as said above
3. Definitely work well on track out of the box - mine is standard and although I'm definitely not the fastest thing out there the car feels great. Doesn't get through consumables quickly either. Good in the wet on standard suspension - I seemed to have so much more grip on turn-in and under power than a stiffly-sprung track spec S1 Elise, for example, I think because the Exige actually had some body roll.
4. I must admit I didn't think the Exige had weird brake feel - mine (240 with the AP Racing front calipers) has slightly uprated pads but with fresh fluid it's a really sharp pedal with lots of bite and (in my opinion) feel. New fluid was night and day different though.
Definitely fluid change is your starting point if they feel odd. Sports Racer brakes were good as well, I thought, at least on the road. For context, my mental benchmark in terms of "good" brakes is a Caterham with the factory big brake kit, and I didn't like the old school long pedal travel of the standard 7, if that helps.
As an aside, is importing an Exige from the UK not an option, is the system super-draconian? I appreciate it would be RHD.
Anyway, my take on your questions is:
1. Yes basically reliable
2. Suspension, pretty much the same but not many Exiges are on standard bilsteins these days as said above
3. Definitely work well on track out of the box - mine is standard and although I'm definitely not the fastest thing out there the car feels great. Doesn't get through consumables quickly either. Good in the wet on standard suspension - I seemed to have so much more grip on turn-in and under power than a stiffly-sprung track spec S1 Elise, for example, I think because the Exige actually had some body roll.
4. I must admit I didn't think the Exige had weird brake feel - mine (240 with the AP Racing front calipers) has slightly uprated pads but with fresh fluid it's a really sharp pedal with lots of bite and (in my opinion) feel. New fluid was night and day different though.
Definitely fluid change is your starting point if they feel odd. Sports Racer brakes were good as well, I thought, at least on the road. For context, my mental benchmark in terms of "good" brakes is a Caterham with the factory big brake kit, and I didn't like the old school long pedal travel of the standard 7, if that helps.
As an aside, is importing an Exige from the UK not an option, is the system super-draconian? I appreciate it would be RHD.
Edited by _Neal_ on Tuesday 25th March 19:22
You've already got deep experience of the marque,.
- Are high mileage Exiges (NA included) reliable?
It seems they are, but they are not immune to going pop, as they get older. Not long after I bought my 40,000 mile 2zz Exige 240 with a Lotus 260 Cup ecu, there were some small filings in the oil 4 months later, they went away with an oil change. At 60,000 it started showing more glitter in the oil to the point I needed a rebuild (ouch). It had been on track days during it's life and perhaps hadn't had enough mid interval oil changes with a previous owner or it could have been just bad luck despite a very good service history? So check the history well and if it has been tracked get an idea of how often and how frequent were the oil changes, ideally after every two track days.
- I'd consider buying a high-mileage one and have no guilt about adding miles to it as I use it all around europe
Love that!
- I know the worn camshafts are a thing in the 2zz engines, and that sc cars suffer from synchro issues/need dry sumps/suffer a bit from heatsoak on track?
I recently got a pro alloy intercooler which includes the heat baffle plate, (to replace my 211 Intercooler that had got old and cracked). It came with the extra ducting kit that feeds directly from the ears. The difference is significant, I can go for a spirited drive and the intercooler is still cool to the touch. So the extra ducting is well worth it. That complete kit is about £1k.
There is always the charge cooler you can add on (about £2k) if heat soak is an issue which it might be in your part of the world.
- Are they the same as an 111r except slightly different suspension setup + looks?
Broadly similar, better aero. You'll probably want to put Nitrons or similar on yours if it doesn't have them. I kept mine on it's standard Billies until they started leaking and the ride was very good but ultimately a bit soft for the track.
- Can they be used out of the box as I want them to or do they need mods to perform?
You can use it out of the box. If tracking, my personal view is get a baffled sump, some say you don't need them but for the sake of £600 and peace of mind I'd always go for one. Road use, you probably don't need one unless you do long fast bends. But again, I'd put one in even if I didn't track mine. The 2ZZ is sensitive to any oil starvation.
If you track it, you might want to put in twin oil coolers and trd airbox and change to Nitron type suspension.
- Can they be tweaked to get the same brake feel as I had in my k-series elise?
It's a personal thing there but as others said you wont get it s good as your k-series - you've been ruined
- Aircon
It's the original pipes that corrode. Aircon was a must have for me with the enclosed cockpit, and I'm in the UK! South of France I'd want it even more, but you may not mind. Luckily mine had had the pipes replaced (at great cost) by a previous owner, so I got a fully working one. I think if it hasn't air con work done and is still working, factor in it may need work on that at some point.
Good luck in your search. Exiges are stunning looking.
- Are high mileage Exiges (NA included) reliable?
It seems they are, but they are not immune to going pop, as they get older. Not long after I bought my 40,000 mile 2zz Exige 240 with a Lotus 260 Cup ecu, there were some small filings in the oil 4 months later, they went away with an oil change. At 60,000 it started showing more glitter in the oil to the point I needed a rebuild (ouch). It had been on track days during it's life and perhaps hadn't had enough mid interval oil changes with a previous owner or it could have been just bad luck despite a very good service history? So check the history well and if it has been tracked get an idea of how often and how frequent were the oil changes, ideally after every two track days.
- I'd consider buying a high-mileage one and have no guilt about adding miles to it as I use it all around europe
Love that!
- I know the worn camshafts are a thing in the 2zz engines, and that sc cars suffer from synchro issues/need dry sumps/suffer a bit from heatsoak on track?
I recently got a pro alloy intercooler which includes the heat baffle plate, (to replace my 211 Intercooler that had got old and cracked). It came with the extra ducting kit that feeds directly from the ears. The difference is significant, I can go for a spirited drive and the intercooler is still cool to the touch. So the extra ducting is well worth it. That complete kit is about £1k.
There is always the charge cooler you can add on (about £2k) if heat soak is an issue which it might be in your part of the world.
- Are they the same as an 111r except slightly different suspension setup + looks?
Broadly similar, better aero. You'll probably want to put Nitrons or similar on yours if it doesn't have them. I kept mine on it's standard Billies until they started leaking and the ride was very good but ultimately a bit soft for the track.
- Can they be used out of the box as I want them to or do they need mods to perform?
You can use it out of the box. If tracking, my personal view is get a baffled sump, some say you don't need them but for the sake of £600 and peace of mind I'd always go for one. Road use, you probably don't need one unless you do long fast bends. But again, I'd put one in even if I didn't track mine. The 2ZZ is sensitive to any oil starvation.
If you track it, you might want to put in twin oil coolers and trd airbox and change to Nitron type suspension.
- Can they be tweaked to get the same brake feel as I had in my k-series elise?
It's a personal thing there but as others said you wont get it s good as your k-series - you've been ruined
- Aircon
It's the original pipes that corrode. Aircon was a must have for me with the enclosed cockpit, and I'm in the UK! South of France I'd want it even more, but you may not mind. Luckily mine had had the pipes replaced (at great cost) by a previous owner, so I got a fully working one. I think if it hasn't air con work done and is still working, factor in it may need work on that at some point.
Good luck in your search. Exiges are stunning looking.
Shnozz said:
I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say the gear change on the Exige is dreadful. It’s not as good as that of the MX5 but then I don’t know many cars that could match that! It’s a very high bar!
It's the same on the 111R (unsurprisingly). Fitting firmer engine mounts made a big difference to mine. It's not amazing, but it's not awful either.Having had both on the drive at the same time in the early 2000's, Civic Type-R shift is miles better than the MX-5's, in my opinion.
Shnozz said:
I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say the gear change on the Exige is dreadful. It’s not as good as that of the MX5 but then I don’t know many cars that could match that! It’s a very high bar!
Me neither. It's no S2000 (or MX5) but that's a feature of the transmission layout IMO i.e. it uses cables because it has to. I think it's pretty good. I'd also trade off a slightly worse gear change against steering/chassis feel, and, more importantly, looks
all day long.PS - on track you're not going for ultimate lap times, so just being a tiny bit more careful up and across the box (e.g. 2nd to 3rd) is hardly a chore.
Have to admit, the gearbox never bothers me that much in my Exige. And that is despite also having an MX5 in the garage. It's definitely not the car's strong point and I agree that second to third is the lowlight of it, but I'd never describe it as dreadful. It's certainly a lot better than my old S1 Elise's! Like otolith, I stiffened the engine mounts on mine with PU inserts. Mixed bag really, it did improve the gear change a lot and totally eliminated any issues moving from 2nd to 3rd but did come at the expense of a fair bit more vibration at idle. I can live with it as the car is used criminally infrequently but it might not be the answer for everyone.
I have looked at some of the other stuff people do including the billet assemblies, and I am interested but only from a point of view that having a genuinely great gear change is appealing but definitely not because I think the current set up is that bad.
I have looked at some of the other stuff people do including the billet assemblies, and I am interested but only from a point of view that having a genuinely great gear change is appealing but definitely not because I think the current set up is that bad.
Just adding some feedback.
I ran a 240S for 20k miles over about 3 years. The only real issue I had was 3rd gear going pop but it wasn’t particularly expensive or painful to get fixed as it’s just Toyota parts.
Other than that it was completely reliable, and my A/C worked fine
It went all over, Italy, France, Switzerland, Scotland trips and managed as my daily driver in all weathers.
Brilliant cars but I’m too broken to squeeze into them now
I ran a 240S for 20k miles over about 3 years. The only real issue I had was 3rd gear going pop but it wasn’t particularly expensive or painful to get fixed as it’s just Toyota parts.
Other than that it was completely reliable, and my A/C worked fine
It went all over, Italy, France, Switzerland, Scotland trips and managed as my daily driver in all weathers. Brilliant cars but I’m too broken to squeeze into them now
Gad-Westy said:
Like otolith, I stiffened the engine mounts on mine with PU inserts. Mixed bag really, it did improve the gear change a lot and totally eliminated any issues moving from 2nd to 3rd but did come at the expense of a fair bit more vibration at idle. I can live with it as the car is used criminally infrequently but it might not be the answer for everyone.
Just don't try to use your rear view mirror when the car is stationary, unless you can do this.
otolith said:
Gad-Westy said:
Like otolith, I stiffened the engine mounts on mine with PU inserts. Mixed bag really, it did improve the gear change a lot and totally eliminated any issues moving from 2nd to 3rd but did come at the expense of a fair bit more vibration at idle. I can live with it as the car is used criminally infrequently but it might not be the answer for everyone.
Just don't try to use your rear view mirror when the car is stationary, unless you can do this.
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