Land Rover 200tdi - could you hand crank it?
Discussion
Idly musing.
The Land Rover 200tdi engine is entirely mechanical, if a nutter made a modified rocker cover with a decompression device that held open the exhaust vales enough, could it be hand cranked? Wind it up and drop the lever?
Do we think the flywheel has enough mass?
Would it start without glow plugs working?
Then you'd have a Defender that could do a 'black start'
Or get one of those hand crank wind up kinetic starters?
Or some other method?
The Land Rover 200tdi engine is entirely mechanical, if a nutter made a modified rocker cover with a decompression device that held open the exhaust vales enough, could it be hand cranked? Wind it up and drop the lever?
Do we think the flywheel has enough mass?
Would it start without glow plugs working?
Then you'd have a Defender that could do a 'black start'
Or get one of those hand crank wind up kinetic starters?
Or some other method?
Huntsman said:
Idly musing.
The Land Rover 200tdi engine is entirely mechanical, if a nutter made a modified rocker cover with a decompression device that held open the exhaust vales enough, could it be hand cranked? Wind it up and drop the lever?
Do we think the flywheel has enough mass?
Would it start without glow plugs working?
Then you'd have a Defender that could do a 'black start'
Or get one of those hand crank wind up kinetic starters?
Or some other method?
What exactly are you trying to achieve ?The Land Rover 200tdi engine is entirely mechanical, if a nutter made a modified rocker cover with a decompression device that held open the exhaust vales enough, could it be hand cranked? Wind it up and drop the lever?
Do we think the flywheel has enough mass?
Would it start without glow plugs working?
Then you'd have a Defender that could do a 'black start'
Or get one of those hand crank wind up kinetic starters?
Or some other method?
No, you are never starting such an engine by hand, unless you're Hercules or something.
If you want a start independent of electricity a wind-up spring starter is probably the easiest; the usual thing onboard for emergency generators is a hand-charged hydraulic starter but they're both expensive and bulky by comparison. I suppose you could fabricate a custom rocker cover with a shaft and decompression cams acting on the rockers, but it's still a terrible old lump to crank and you'll only have it at 1:1 on the handle where most hand cranks are 2:1 to allow greater speed and a better chance when the lever goes down.
TBH one of those lithium starter packs make a rather more practical and cheap proposition.
TBH one of those lithium starter packs make a rather more practical and cheap proposition.
GreenV8S said:
Given how far-fetched and speculative and hypothetical and impractical all this is, it seems a bit strange that you're baulking at jacking a wheel up.
Fair point! Idle musing.stevieturbo said:
What exactly are you trying to achieve ?
No, you are never starting such an engine by hand, unless you're Hercules or something.
I'm not really, I'm just musing, some of the engine applications I've worked on had a black start requirement, I kinda like the idea.No, you are never starting such an engine by hand, unless you're Hercules or something.
hidetheelephants said:
If you want a start independent of electricity a wind-up spring starter is probably the easiest; the usual thing onboard for emergency generators is a hand-charged hydraulic starter but they're both expensive and bulky by comparison. I suppose you could fabricate a custom rocker cover with a shaft and decompression cams acting on the rockers, but it's still a terrible old lump to crank and you'll only have it at 1:1 on the handle where most hand cranks are 2:1 to allow greater speed and a better chance when the lever goes down.
TBH one of those lithium starter packs make a rather more practical and cheap proposition.
I hadnt thought of gear reduction.TBH one of those lithium starter packs make a rather more practical and cheap proposition.
Its possible to hand crank an 6LX Gardner with decompression.
Huntsman said:
akirk said:
out of interest - why not?
my first classic RR - 3.5v8 could still make use of a starting handle and had a slot in the bumper for it...
I wonder when they phased it out. My '82 4dr V8 doesnt have it.my first classic RR - 3.5v8 could still make use of a starting handle and had a slot in the bumper for it...
Edited to say - yours does have the slot in the bumper looking at the photo!
akirk said:
My first classic was ANR 77Y - an 82 4dr v8 in vogue (one of the Gold ones) so if mine did and yours doesn’t - maybe that was the change over?
Edited to say - yours does have the slot in the bumper looking at the photo!
You got one step ahead of me, I just came to say I noticed the slot last night! Edited to say - yours does have the slot in the bumper looking at the photo!
You need a wind up inertia starter, like some pre-war lorries had. And most aircraft prior to electric starters.
Hand crank spins up a flywheel, throw in the clutch and it turns the engine over a few revs. Rinse and repeat if it doesn't catch first time. Meets your black start requirements.
Hand crank spins up a flywheel, throw in the clutch and it turns the engine over a few revs. Rinse and repeat if it doesn't catch first time. Meets your black start requirements.
Fast and Spurious said:
I was just about to come in with a Maybach hand-start, but the Tiger at the Musee des Blindes.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3uHe2fHqBM
Obviously an ugga-dugga gun on the crank pulley will do it.
A more enterprising solution would be engineering an air start system, then use the air pump from a Land Rover product with air springs to fill a reservoir of air, this can be used to start the engine by injecting air directly into the cylinders, this will require a method of sequencing the air to mirror the firing order, and is easy on a 2 stroke, harder but not insurmountable for a 4 stroke.
Your air reservoir can then be pumped up by a hand or foot pump if empty making your 200TDi apocalypse proof.
If only you could use an electric motor on to the fly wheel, and find some way to generate and store electricity on the vehicle.
A more enterprising solution would be engineering an air start system, then use the air pump from a Land Rover product with air springs to fill a reservoir of air, this can be used to start the engine by injecting air directly into the cylinders, this will require a method of sequencing the air to mirror the firing order, and is easy on a 2 stroke, harder but not insurmountable for a 4 stroke.
Your air reservoir can then be pumped up by a hand or foot pump if empty making your 200TDi apocalypse proof.
If only you could use an electric motor on to the fly wheel, and find some way to generate and store electricity on the vehicle.
Edited by Stick Legs on Tuesday 4th March 18:05
You'll be waiting for the heatdeath of the solar system for one of those weedy suspension pumps charging up enough air to spin an engine. Engines of this size use pneumatic starter motors, not air injection into the cylinders, it's too much faff. A compressor and reservoir off a truck or bus would be easy enough to get, although I doubt there are any starters available off the shelf so one would need modified to fit.Edited by hidetheelephants on Tuesday 4th March 18:19
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff