New car gone wrong - to cut losses or trust the untrustable?
Discussion
Hi, first time poster with little/no mechanical knowledge so bear with me.
My new (used) car journey..
4th Feb - pay deposit on fiat 500x, 70 plate, 27k miles, recently serviced (!) & mot with no advisories, 1 prev owner = elderly man. Bought from large non-Fiat dealership
7th Feb - pick it up and pay in full
14th Feb - check engine light comes on. Rang and told to bring it straight down. Light then goes out but I still go. Wait around a few hrs and then given loan car as they want to test drive again and diagnose
17th Feb - diagnostics brought up mass air flow sensor. Told it needs to go to fiat and is booked in, then told they can look at it instead, then given a whole lot of runaround to be honest. Asked for full explanation and “technician” decided to clean MAF, clean sensors and return car. Informed them I was due to do a 400 mile round trip in coming days with two kids and I wanted to know it was ok, assured to would be and if not to go back. Decided to trust their judgement and if not it’d make for an interesting holiday!
23rd Feb - check engine light came on on the motorway, closely followed by stop start malfunction and engine shuddering. Immediately pulled off and turned it off for a while. Restarted ok, so finished remainder of journey and decided to take them up on offer of help.
24th feb - dealer fund mobile mechanic and tell him to name his fee. He spots oil under the bonnet as soon as he opens it (in the dark) indicating a slow leak. Diagnostics show MAF as a current fault and cylinder 3 misfire as a pending fault.
25th Feb - He tries to source a MAF in time for me going back home and can’t. Dealership aren’t proactive. I am eventually told theyre looking at recovery options
26th Feb - dealership decide to send a driver in a loan car 3hrs to me and tell him to drive mine back with the MAF unplugged (!) Thankfully, car then doesn’t start and seems like a flat battery. Cue mobile mechanic round two. Car is shuddering again (rough idling) and doesn’t sound great when MAF disconnected. Even the driver they sent doesn’t fancy driving it. Mobile mechanic tries a few mates for recovery home, none will do it. Dealership advise me to leave car with driver and they send a recovery truck down to pick up driver and my car (obvious question - why didn’t they do that in the first place?!)
27th Feb - dealership report car is driving ok and oil is just a spill where someone has topped it up. I accept none of it
28th Feb - dealership report engine light has cleared but they’ve now detected the MAF issue, a turbo bypass valve issue and the “gasket on the timing chain cover” causing the minor oil leak. They are a Vauxhall dealer and claim they can replace the parts but Fiat need to code the new MAF sensor and can’t do that for another 17 days. For a second they seemed to suggest they’d replace the parts, return the car to me and then take it to Fiat later, but they’re now offering I keep the loan car until after 17th.
At the point of leaving it in the hands of their driver, I’d emptied everything out of it and didn’t want to see it again. I knew the mobile mechanic would back me re the oil issue at the very least being present on purchase and therefore could claim full refund based on consumer rights and 31 days having not passed. I don’t trust their repair work, anything they tell me, or that they’re not driving the car while clearly not in a great condition. However, it’s a used car, and I’m fully aware of the lottery of buying second hand and how this could happen again with a less than helpful dealer who may not come to my aid 3 hours from home.. there also isn’t anything in the market at the minute in the same price range/spec/mileage/condition and I need a car (albeit not desperately, but I couldn’t wait around very long for one to come up).
I feel like they’re making it up as they go along, but have to admit the after sales manager I’m now dealing with has been accommodating and thorough (if not over optimistic at times and bending the truth at others). I’ve now got in writing that their plan is to replace the MAF, turbo bypass valve and gasket on the timing chain cover and re-start my 3 month warranty when I come to collect. I can keep the loan car until all is done.
Being a total non-mechanic, I’m going off what people are telling me and don’t trust anyone, which makes it hard to know what to do with this 10k purchase that hasn’t served me very well at all so far!
I suppose my questions are:
Why have any of these parts gone on a car that hasn’t had much use?
Are the faults interlinked?
(I said the issues were snowballing and she said they’re investigating and it’s bringing up more issues)
Are these a common fault on a Fiat 500X?
Is this total bs?
Are there likely to be more issues as a result of this?
Would you push for a refund, cut losses and try luck elsewhere or trust their repairs once it’s all done and in writing?
(I’m aware I can ring Fiat once it’s there and get a slightly more objective view from them, but that’ll go over the 30 day refund period, hence me posting this)
If you did keep the car, what would your conditions be?
(Thinking of pressing for a longer warranty period on them)
Any other advice, things to ask/say/quote [/b]
Thanks for reading, sorry it’s huge!
My new (used) car journey..
4th Feb - pay deposit on fiat 500x, 70 plate, 27k miles, recently serviced (!) & mot with no advisories, 1 prev owner = elderly man. Bought from large non-Fiat dealership
7th Feb - pick it up and pay in full
14th Feb - check engine light comes on. Rang and told to bring it straight down. Light then goes out but I still go. Wait around a few hrs and then given loan car as they want to test drive again and diagnose
17th Feb - diagnostics brought up mass air flow sensor. Told it needs to go to fiat and is booked in, then told they can look at it instead, then given a whole lot of runaround to be honest. Asked for full explanation and “technician” decided to clean MAF, clean sensors and return car. Informed them I was due to do a 400 mile round trip in coming days with two kids and I wanted to know it was ok, assured to would be and if not to go back. Decided to trust their judgement and if not it’d make for an interesting holiday!
23rd Feb - check engine light came on on the motorway, closely followed by stop start malfunction and engine shuddering. Immediately pulled off and turned it off for a while. Restarted ok, so finished remainder of journey and decided to take them up on offer of help.
24th feb - dealer fund mobile mechanic and tell him to name his fee. He spots oil under the bonnet as soon as he opens it (in the dark) indicating a slow leak. Diagnostics show MAF as a current fault and cylinder 3 misfire as a pending fault.
25th Feb - He tries to source a MAF in time for me going back home and can’t. Dealership aren’t proactive. I am eventually told theyre looking at recovery options
26th Feb - dealership decide to send a driver in a loan car 3hrs to me and tell him to drive mine back with the MAF unplugged (!) Thankfully, car then doesn’t start and seems like a flat battery. Cue mobile mechanic round two. Car is shuddering again (rough idling) and doesn’t sound great when MAF disconnected. Even the driver they sent doesn’t fancy driving it. Mobile mechanic tries a few mates for recovery home, none will do it. Dealership advise me to leave car with driver and they send a recovery truck down to pick up driver and my car (obvious question - why didn’t they do that in the first place?!)
27th Feb - dealership report car is driving ok and oil is just a spill where someone has topped it up. I accept none of it
28th Feb - dealership report engine light has cleared but they’ve now detected the MAF issue, a turbo bypass valve issue and the “gasket on the timing chain cover” causing the minor oil leak. They are a Vauxhall dealer and claim they can replace the parts but Fiat need to code the new MAF sensor and can’t do that for another 17 days. For a second they seemed to suggest they’d replace the parts, return the car to me and then take it to Fiat later, but they’re now offering I keep the loan car until after 17th.
At the point of leaving it in the hands of their driver, I’d emptied everything out of it and didn’t want to see it again. I knew the mobile mechanic would back me re the oil issue at the very least being present on purchase and therefore could claim full refund based on consumer rights and 31 days having not passed. I don’t trust their repair work, anything they tell me, or that they’re not driving the car while clearly not in a great condition. However, it’s a used car, and I’m fully aware of the lottery of buying second hand and how this could happen again with a less than helpful dealer who may not come to my aid 3 hours from home.. there also isn’t anything in the market at the minute in the same price range/spec/mileage/condition and I need a car (albeit not desperately, but I couldn’t wait around very long for one to come up).
I feel like they’re making it up as they go along, but have to admit the after sales manager I’m now dealing with has been accommodating and thorough (if not over optimistic at times and bending the truth at others). I’ve now got in writing that their plan is to replace the MAF, turbo bypass valve and gasket on the timing chain cover and re-start my 3 month warranty when I come to collect. I can keep the loan car until all is done.
Being a total non-mechanic, I’m going off what people are telling me and don’t trust anyone, which makes it hard to know what to do with this 10k purchase that hasn’t served me very well at all so far!
I suppose my questions are: Why have any of these parts gone on a car that hasn’t had much use? Are the faults interlinked?(I said the issues were snowballing and she said they’re investigating and it’s bringing up more issues)
Are these a common fault on a Fiat 500X? Is this total bs? Are there likely to be more issues as a result of this? Would you push for a refund, cut losses and try luck elsewhere or trust their repairs once it’s all done and in writing? (I’m aware I can ring Fiat once it’s there and get a slightly more objective view from them, but that’ll go over the 30 day refund period, hence me posting this)
If you did keep the car, what would your conditions be? (Thinking of pressing for a longer warranty period on them)
Any other advice, things to ask/say/quote [/b]
Thanks for reading, sorry it’s huge!
Edited by f500x on Saturday 1st March 08:41
Really they have given you a loan car and a promise, in writing to sort things
That doesn't sound unreasonable. I guess you'll just have to wait it out, or seek legal advice. But I'd say it's way too early to go down any legal route.
Not sure if you can flat reject the car and get a refund at this point though
That doesn't sound unreasonable. I guess you'll just have to wait it out, or seek legal advice. But I'd say it's way too early to go down any legal route.
Not sure if you can flat reject the car and get a refund at this point though
Thank you. That’s the type of thing that I wanted to know as I haven’t got the mechanical knowledge to challenge them. They said their diagnostics machine can’t code the MAF and it happens from time to time with certain parts that require dealership only repairs. The mobile mechanic was prepared to fix it, he just couldn’t get it in time.
Re legal issues and entitlement to refund etc - read the consumer rights act 2015 - I’m entitled. However the 31 day entitlement period will be up while they still have the car waiting for Fiat to “code” so I need to make my mind up before they fix it, which is my dilemma.
Re legal issues and entitlement to refund etc - read the consumer rights act 2015 - I’m entitled. However the 31 day entitlement period will be up while they still have the car waiting for Fiat to “code” so I need to make my mind up before they fix it, which is my dilemma.
Firstly, it DOES sound like they are trying their level best to help & so hopefully, you will end up with a car & some level of confidence in the car & the dealer.
You are right in that used car purchase/ownership is always a lottery.
It is unlikely that the issues are related in that one has caused the other etc, but having said that, I suspect that someone may have "been in there before" and it is now coming to light.
The "code the MAF" thing is likely a mis-quote from someone who isn't mechanically minded (salesman) and I wouldn't worry about it.
As others have said, under these circumstances you legally have to give them the opportunity to fix it to your satisfaction & at least they are restarting your warranty after repair, which I don't think they legally need to do.
You are right in that used car purchase/ownership is always a lottery.
It is unlikely that the issues are related in that one has caused the other etc, but having said that, I suspect that someone may have "been in there before" and it is now coming to light.
The "code the MAF" thing is likely a mis-quote from someone who isn't mechanically minded (salesman) and I wouldn't worry about it.
As others have said, under these circumstances you legally have to give them the opportunity to fix it to your satisfaction & at least they are restarting your warranty after repair, which I don't think they legally need to do.
Thank you, helpful.
If the issue has been there before I bought it (and I suspect it has) then has it being driven with air flow issues likely caused any further issues? Has the MAF caused the turbo bypass issue? Will there possibly be further complications as a result of both being faulty? I have probably only put about 300-400 miles on it since purchase, but unknown how long it’s been dodgy before that
If the issue has been there before I bought it (and I suspect it has) then has it being driven with air flow issues likely caused any further issues? Has the MAF caused the turbo bypass issue? Will there possibly be further complications as a result of both being faulty? I have probably only put about 300-400 miles on it since purchase, but unknown how long it’s been dodgy before that
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/
If I were you I'd do my best to reject it. You have already given them a reasonable chance to fix it. On which they have failed.
If I were you I'd do my best to reject it. You have already given them a reasonable chance to fix it. On which they have failed.
f500x said:
Thank you, helpful.
If the issue has been there before I bought it (and I suspect it has) then has it being driven with air flow issues likely caused any further issues? Has the MAF caused the turbo bypass issue? Will there possibly be further complications as a result of both being faulty? I have probably only put about 300-400 miles on it since purchase, but unknown how long it’s been dodgy before that
Failing sensors can sometimes bring up other codes so you have to know what to look for, diagnostics can be very tricky if you just start firing parts at it.If the issue has been there before I bought it (and I suspect it has) then has it being driven with air flow issues likely caused any further issues? Has the MAF caused the turbo bypass issue? Will there possibly be further complications as a result of both being faulty? I have probably only put about 300-400 miles on it since purchase, but unknown how long it’s been dodgy before that
Fiat 500 is a Corsa C with a different shell so they should be able to do most of it easy but no coding required for what they are doing just clearing codes which anyone with a Iphone can do.
Hi all,
Update..
MAF sensors indeed do need to be calibrated on a Fiat (google it!). Diagnostics brought up MAF, turbo bypass valve and they repaired the minor oil leak. Fiat ‘calibrated’ the MAF and checked for further faults, did a health check (break pads 60% worn) then returned to my dealer who test drove and returned to me. It drove AWFUL. They said it’s a three cylinder engine so will always be a misfire and the shuddery steering wheel and jittery driving was a result of that. I wasn’t convinced but said I’d give it a drive. Following day, limp mode on the school run..
Dealership have been really good. It does seem like a process of elimination and they’re paying fiat for the diagnostics and I think being fobbed off by them. I got my loan car back, and Fiat diagnosed a software update and sent us on our way.. this time I didn’t even make it onto the main road out of the dealership before the engine light came back on. It’s now awaiting Fiat further diagnostics “when they can fit it in”.. I meanwhile am cruising around in the loan car
Spoke to prev owner - he replaced 4 tyres in 4 yrs and that was it. He was surprised it was so bad. He part exed it end of Oct and it was sold at auction. For some reason it didn’t go on sale until early Feb when I bought it. Is this usual? Would sitting so long cause an issue?
I’ve been offered a free 12m warranty which covers almost all parts. I’ve had the loan car until fixed. Only other option they offered was to give it back, but I’d need to clear the personal loan I took out to buy the car as they don’t accept cars with finance outstanding. Makes sense, but I thought a personal loan was different to finance? Anyone know?
Had an early repayment quote = £200 extra
Remove private plate = £70
Insurance admin fee to Change vehicle = £25
Insurance premium on different car = £??
It starts to be costly and I have no idea what other car I’d want. I had my heart set on this one!
Keep it and let them continue to try and diagnose and try different parts in the hope it’s eventually fine?
Or
Throw in the towel, find something else. In which case, what are people recommending for a girly mum-mobile that’s around 10-11k?
Update..
MAF sensors indeed do need to be calibrated on a Fiat (google it!). Diagnostics brought up MAF, turbo bypass valve and they repaired the minor oil leak. Fiat ‘calibrated’ the MAF and checked for further faults, did a health check (break pads 60% worn) then returned to my dealer who test drove and returned to me. It drove AWFUL. They said it’s a three cylinder engine so will always be a misfire and the shuddery steering wheel and jittery driving was a result of that. I wasn’t convinced but said I’d give it a drive. Following day, limp mode on the school run..
Dealership have been really good. It does seem like a process of elimination and they’re paying fiat for the diagnostics and I think being fobbed off by them. I got my loan car back, and Fiat diagnosed a software update and sent us on our way.. this time I didn’t even make it onto the main road out of the dealership before the engine light came back on. It’s now awaiting Fiat further diagnostics “when they can fit it in”.. I meanwhile am cruising around in the loan car
Spoke to prev owner - he replaced 4 tyres in 4 yrs and that was it. He was surprised it was so bad. He part exed it end of Oct and it was sold at auction. For some reason it didn’t go on sale until early Feb when I bought it. Is this usual? Would sitting so long cause an issue?
I’ve been offered a free 12m warranty which covers almost all parts. I’ve had the loan car until fixed. Only other option they offered was to give it back, but I’d need to clear the personal loan I took out to buy the car as they don’t accept cars with finance outstanding. Makes sense, but I thought a personal loan was different to finance? Anyone know?
Had an early repayment quote = £200 extra
Remove private plate = £70
Insurance admin fee to Change vehicle = £25
Insurance premium on different car = £??
It starts to be costly and I have no idea what other car I’d want. I had my heart set on this one!
Keep it and let them continue to try and diagnose and try different parts in the hope it’s eventually fine?
Or
Throw in the towel, find something else. In which case, what are people recommending for a girly mum-mobile that’s around 10-11k?
f500x said:
Hi all,
Update..
MAF sensors indeed do need to be calibrated on a Fiat (google it!). Diagnostics brought up MAF, turbo bypass valve and they repaired the minor oil leak. Fiat ‘calibrated’ the MAF and checked for further faults, did a health check (break pads 60% worn) then returned to my dealer who test drove and returned to me. It drove AWFUL. They said it’s a three cylinder engine so will always be a misfire and the shuddery steering wheel and jittery driving was a result of that. I wasn’t convinced but said I’d give it a drive. Following day, limp mode on the school run..
Dealership have been really good. It does seem like a process of elimination and they’re paying fiat for the diagnostics and I think being fobbed off by them. I got my loan car back, and Fiat diagnosed a software update and sent us on our way.. this time I didn’t even make it onto the main road out of the dealership before the engine light came back on. It’s now awaiting Fiat further diagnostics “when they can fit it in”.. I meanwhile am cruising around in the loan car
Spoke to prev owner - he replaced 4 tyres in 4 yrs and that was it. He was surprised it was so bad. He part exed it end of Oct and it was sold at auction. For some reason it didn’t go on sale until early Feb when I bought it. Is this usual? Would sitting so long cause an issue?
I’ve been offered a free 12m warranty which covers almost all parts. I’ve had the loan car until fixed. Only other option they offered was to give it back, but I’d need to clear the personal loan I took out to buy the car as they don’t accept cars with finance outstanding. Makes sense, but I thought a personal loan was different to finance? Anyone know?
Had an early repayment quote = £200 extra
Remove private plate = £70
Insurance admin fee to Change vehicle = £25
Insurance premium on different car = £??
It starts to be costly and I have no idea what other car I’d want. I had my heart set on this one!
Keep it and let them continue to try and diagnose and try different parts in the hope it’s eventually fine?
Or
Throw in the towel, find something else. In which case, what are people recommending for a girly mum-mobile that’s around 10-11k?
How would they know about the loan? Did you provide details of the car when you took out the loan? Is the car registered as collateral against the loan?Update..
MAF sensors indeed do need to be calibrated on a Fiat (google it!). Diagnostics brought up MAF, turbo bypass valve and they repaired the minor oil leak. Fiat ‘calibrated’ the MAF and checked for further faults, did a health check (break pads 60% worn) then returned to my dealer who test drove and returned to me. It drove AWFUL. They said it’s a three cylinder engine so will always be a misfire and the shuddery steering wheel and jittery driving was a result of that. I wasn’t convinced but said I’d give it a drive. Following day, limp mode on the school run..
Dealership have been really good. It does seem like a process of elimination and they’re paying fiat for the diagnostics and I think being fobbed off by them. I got my loan car back, and Fiat diagnosed a software update and sent us on our way.. this time I didn’t even make it onto the main road out of the dealership before the engine light came back on. It’s now awaiting Fiat further diagnostics “when they can fit it in”.. I meanwhile am cruising around in the loan car
Spoke to prev owner - he replaced 4 tyres in 4 yrs and that was it. He was surprised it was so bad. He part exed it end of Oct and it was sold at auction. For some reason it didn’t go on sale until early Feb when I bought it. Is this usual? Would sitting so long cause an issue?
I’ve been offered a free 12m warranty which covers almost all parts. I’ve had the loan car until fixed. Only other option they offered was to give it back, but I’d need to clear the personal loan I took out to buy the car as they don’t accept cars with finance outstanding. Makes sense, but I thought a personal loan was different to finance? Anyone know?
Had an early repayment quote = £200 extra
Remove private plate = £70
Insurance admin fee to Change vehicle = £25
Insurance premium on different car = £??
It starts to be costly and I have no idea what other car I’d want. I had my heart set on this one!
Keep it and let them continue to try and diagnose and try different parts in the hope it’s eventually fine?
Or
Throw in the towel, find something else. In which case, what are people recommending for a girly mum-mobile that’s around 10-11k?
f500x said:
Hi all,
Update..
They said it’s a three cylinder engine so will always be a misfire and the shuddery steering wheel and jittery driving was a result of that. I wasn’t convinced but said I’d give it a drive. Following day, limp mode on the school run.. ...
Owned two 3 cyl Fords, they did not have any of those symptoms, never driven a 500 but doubt very much they are any different. If you've noticed with little knowledge of cars then I suspect they are talking bUpdate..
They said it’s a three cylinder engine so will always be a misfire and the shuddery steering wheel and jittery driving was a result of that. I wasn’t convinced but said I’d give it a drive. Following day, limp mode on the school run.. ...
ks.Hope you get it resolved.
flight147z said:
How would they know about the loan? Did you provide details of the car when you took out the loan? Is the car registered as collateral against the loan?
I wondered this too and can’t find the answer online. It was after sales manager who mentioned it and she did say she’d have to check with sales. She asked how I financed it and I said it’s not finance, it’s a personal loan. She said if the loan asked reason for borrowing (it did) then it’s treated the same as finance. The bank (NatWest) don’t have any way to link this car to the loan as they haven’t asked for any of that information. Maxdecel said:
f500x said:
Hi all,
Update..
They said it’s a three cylinder engine so will always be a misfire and the shuddery steering wheel and jittery driving was a result of that. I wasn’t convinced but said I’d give it a drive. Following day, limp mode on the school run.. ...
Owned two 3 cyl Fords, they did not have any of those symptoms, never driven a 500 but doubt very much they are any different. If you've noticed with little knowledge of cars then I suspect they are talking bUpdate..
They said it’s a three cylinder engine so will always be a misfire and the shuddery steering wheel and jittery driving was a result of that. I wasn’t convinced but said I’d give it a drive. Following day, limp mode on the school run.. ...
ks.Hope you get it resolved.
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