Suella Braverman: I will never be truly English: here is why
Discussion
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/0add935b095726f0
Interesting take on this controversial topic by Suella. We've debated this before on PH with a variety of different views, and my take is that Englishness is an identity associated with upbringing and allegience rather than it boiling down to an ethnicity, unless you draw a line in the sand of when that ethnicity profile was completed.
I'll give 3 examples to illustrate my point
1. A woman who's parents came over from Poland in the early 2000's and settled in a town in England. She was born here, and now her children will be born here too. All she's known is life here, even though she has close links to Poland. To me, both her and her children are English.
2. A man who's grandparents escaped the holocaust and settled in London after WWII. Thats 3 generations of Londoners who have only known their life here, but with roots in some other countries. To me him and his family are English.
3. A man who's parents were evicted from Uganda as per Idi Amin, with him being born in a city in England, and settling well into the community. To me him and his family are English.
Interesting take on this controversial topic by Suella. We've debated this before on PH with a variety of different views, and my take is that Englishness is an identity associated with upbringing and allegience rather than it boiling down to an ethnicity, unless you draw a line in the sand of when that ethnicity profile was completed.
I'll give 3 examples to illustrate my point
1. A woman who's parents came over from Poland in the early 2000's and settled in a town in England. She was born here, and now her children will be born here too. All she's known is life here, even though she has close links to Poland. To me, both her and her children are English.
2. A man who's grandparents escaped the holocaust and settled in London after WWII. Thats 3 generations of Londoners who have only known their life here, but with roots in some other countries. To me him and his family are English.
3. A man who's parents were evicted from Uganda as per Idi Amin, with him being born in a city in England, and settling well into the community. To me him and his family are English.
Sporky said:
I think the reason she'll never be truly British is that she lacks the characteristic kindness and tolerance of others. Also the sense of humour.
She's referring to being English, rather than British. British is a nationality associated with your passport and Englishness is your identy. Not sure if that nuance is clear to all.toasty said:
Another example.
Bob was born in England but his great great great great great great… …great great grandfather arrived with William the Conqueror.
In my books, Bob is a cheese-eating surrender monkey.
HTH
I'm surprised I haven't been deported, given my mixed Germanic/Viking roots....Bob was born in England but his great great great great great great… …great great grandfather arrived with William the Conqueror.
In my books, Bob is a cheese-eating surrender monkey.
HTH
s1962a said:
She's referring to being English, rather than British. British is a nationality associated with your passport and Englishness is your identy. Not sure if that nuance is clear to all.
Well, these things are not so crisply defined in reality, are they? I am English (born, bred and resident) but my primary sense of 'where I'm from' is 'British'. The UK is my home, not just the bit below Scotland and to the right of Wales.
You're right that the gradual splitting away of 'England' and 'Britain' as synonyms in the post-war era, and the increasing racial diversity of the (legally) British population is what has led many people to redefine themselves as English and look to create a new civic identity. As has the loosening of the Union and the reemergence of distinct new Scottish and Welsh national identities.
But 'British' is still more than a legal tickbox for quite a lot of people.
s1962a said:
She's referring to being English, rather than British. British is a nationality associated with your passport and Englishness is your identy. Not sure if that nuance is clear to all.
I don't think that's correct at all. I'm British but not English. I support EN-GER-LAND every two years (even the women's teams!), and when it's England v Scotland or England v Wales rugby matches, I support England. I have a British passport. As I understand it, English is white caucasian with a long ancestry in England.It is straightforward:
Europe - white
USA - White (White Europeans usurping land from the Indigenous peoples)
Australia - White (White Europeans usurping land from the Indigenous peoples)
New Zealand, Canada - White (White Europeans usurping land from the Indigenous peoples)
White is the base colour - every other colour is a different shade of white. If you're not white, you'll never be accepted as being European etc...
Simples.
Europe - white
USA - White (White Europeans usurping land from the Indigenous peoples)
Australia - White (White Europeans usurping land from the Indigenous peoples)
New Zealand, Canada - White (White Europeans usurping land from the Indigenous peoples)
White is the base colour - every other colour is a different shade of white. If you're not white, you'll never be accepted as being European etc...
Simples.
s1962a said:
Sporky said:
I think the reason she'll never be truly British is that she lacks the characteristic kindness and tolerance of others. Also the sense of humour.
She's referring to being English, rather than British. British is a nationality associated with your passport and Englishness is your identy. Not sure if that nuance is clear to all.(Speaking as an Englishman who lives in Scotland).
Lotobear said:
Mrs Loto fits the Suella mould exactly, though Nepali heritage (even has dual nationality).
But she regards herself as English through and through - she even likes a Greggs and a Spoons from time to time, and supports NUFC. And doesn't like woke
O/T but speaking as a 1st generation immigrant IME immigrants from developing countries tend to be far less liberal/progressive in their views (about women, homosexuals, even other immigrants) than the indigenous population.But she regards herself as English through and through - she even likes a Greggs and a Spoons from time to time, and supports NUFC. And doesn't like woke
Countdown said:
Lotobear said:
Mrs Loto fits the Suella mould exactly, though Nepali heritage (even has dual nationality).
But she regards herself as English through and through - she even likes a Greggs and a Spoons from time to time, and supports NUFC. And doesn't like woke
O/T but speaking as a 1st generation immigrant IME immigrants from developing countries tend to be far less liberal/progressive in their views (about women, homosexuals, even other immigrants) than the indigenous population.But she regards herself as English through and through - she even likes a Greggs and a Spoons from time to time, and supports NUFC. And doesn't like woke
s1962a said:
Sporky said:
I think the reason she'll never be truly British is that she lacks the characteristic kindness and tolerance of others. Also the sense of humour.
She's referring to being English, rather than British. British is a nationality associated with your passport and Englishness is your identy. Not sure if that nuance is clear to all.I’m British. Not because of my passport - or it’s bloody colour - but because I’m British. I was born here, raised here, ergo I am British. I always go with British before English, just because I do. It is my nationality and my national identity.
If you wish to go more granular than that for my ethnic identity, then we bypass English. Because that would mean I get lumped in with all the southern f
king faeries and those w@nkers across the border. bks to that. I’m Lancastrian and proud. A VASTLY more important concept than being English. Of course we can always go back up a level, where I freely accept that the w@nkers across the border are my Northern brothers in arms against those southern fking faeries.Suella doesn’t feel sodding English because she whinges too much and writes diatribes in newspapers about why she doesn’t feel English. It would never occur to the rest of us to bother.
DeejRC said:
If you wish to go more granular than that for my ethnic identity, then we bypass English. Because that would mean I get lumped in with all the southern fking faeries and those w@nkers across the border. bks to that. I’m Lancastrian and proud. A VASTLY more important concept than being English. Of course we can always go back up a level, where I freely accept that the w@nkers across the border are my Northern brothers in arms against those southern fking faeries.
How do you feel about Yorkshirians, out of interest? king faeries and those w@nkers across the border. bks to that. I’m Lancastrian and proud. A VASTLY more important concept than being English. Of course we can always go back up a level, where I freely accept that the w@nkers across the border are my Northern brothers in arms against those southern fking faeries.2xChevrons said:
Well, these things are not so crisply defined in reality, are they?
I am English (born, bred and resident) but my primary sense of 'where I'm from' is 'British'. The UK is my home, not just the bit below Scotland and to the right of Wales.
Agreed. I'm from England but see myself as British. I am English (born, bred and resident) but my primary sense of 'where I'm from' is 'British'. The UK is my home, not just the bit below Scotland and to the right of Wales.
toasty said:
Another example.
Bob was born in England but his great great great great great great… …great great grandfather arrived with William the Conqueror.
In my books, Bob is a cheese-eating surrender monkey.
HTH
I think you mean Charles and the fat fingered pillock is your king. Bob was born in England but his great great great great great great… …great great grandfather arrived with William the Conqueror.
In my books, Bob is a cheese-eating surrender monkey.
HTH
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff