101F01 and rough idle after change of valve cover - N55
Discussion
Ever wish you hadn't started something?
At the weekend I embarked on changing the valve cover (and gasket) and the OFHG on my 2011 F11 535i.
Basically because there was quite a lot of wet oil around the engine whenever I poked around and I suspected one or both were leaking. I also cleaned the vanos solenoids and swapped them over as I'd had the odd error code relating to the exhaust one. I now believe that actually relates to the oil filter as I found that the cage was missing and I believe that is a common cause of the errors I was seeing.
Anyway, to do the valve cover and OFHG, a lot of stuff needs to be removed. Lots of connectors, vac lines, fuel rail, inlet manifold etc so I'm aware I've disturbed a lot of stuff.
I originally intended to do this job a few weeks ago and annoyingly at the time could only get hold of a cheap Ridex valve cover in time which I wasn't over the moon about. Even more annoying is that I didn't get the chance to the job then so could have waited for a better one in hindsight....
Anyway, did it all, fitted the ridex valve cover, fired the car up and initially for maybe 30 seconds or so all seemed fine but then it started missing and running horribly. It through a 102002 code, air mass, plausibility: air mass too low. Removing the oil fill cap made no discernible difference to idle. I did a thorough check over everywhere I'd been, checked connectors etc and could not find any obvious issues. But when I'd fitted the ridex valve cover I hadn't really been happy with how it felt. It had felt liked I'd had to force it square a little and I started to wonder if I'd ether just got a bad part or maybe I'd disturbed the gasket during install.
So I decided to remove and refit the old valve cover but with a new gasket. When I fitted that, it felt so much better fitting it so I was confident that I'd maybe got this sussed. Got it all back together. Once again, the car initially felt fine but then start to run lumpy maybe 30s to a minute after start up. Again I went around checking my work. No obvious issues, everything seemed to be connected okay. Interestingly, the fault code has now changed to 101F01 - Throttle valve angle - absolute pressure intake manifold, comparison: pressure too high.
So, where do I go now? I'm prepared to pull the valve cover off again as it's really hard to rule out that I could have disturbed the gasket on fitting.
I'm also kicking myself for not changing the inlet manifold gasket when I had to remove it to do the OFHG. So maybe I should just sort that anyway but I'm scratching my head as to why I'd now be getting a different code when all I've done is switch the valve cover over.
I have to admit, I really hope I have a eurkea moment and realise there is some vac line or something I have forgotten to reconnect but I have been pretty thorough.
Do I need to buy a smoke tester...?
At the weekend I embarked on changing the valve cover (and gasket) and the OFHG on my 2011 F11 535i.
Basically because there was quite a lot of wet oil around the engine whenever I poked around and I suspected one or both were leaking. I also cleaned the vanos solenoids and swapped them over as I'd had the odd error code relating to the exhaust one. I now believe that actually relates to the oil filter as I found that the cage was missing and I believe that is a common cause of the errors I was seeing.
Anyway, to do the valve cover and OFHG, a lot of stuff needs to be removed. Lots of connectors, vac lines, fuel rail, inlet manifold etc so I'm aware I've disturbed a lot of stuff.
I originally intended to do this job a few weeks ago and annoyingly at the time could only get hold of a cheap Ridex valve cover in time which I wasn't over the moon about. Even more annoying is that I didn't get the chance to the job then so could have waited for a better one in hindsight....
Anyway, did it all, fitted the ridex valve cover, fired the car up and initially for maybe 30 seconds or so all seemed fine but then it started missing and running horribly. It through a 102002 code, air mass, plausibility: air mass too low. Removing the oil fill cap made no discernible difference to idle. I did a thorough check over everywhere I'd been, checked connectors etc and could not find any obvious issues. But when I'd fitted the ridex valve cover I hadn't really been happy with how it felt. It had felt liked I'd had to force it square a little and I started to wonder if I'd ether just got a bad part or maybe I'd disturbed the gasket during install.
So I decided to remove and refit the old valve cover but with a new gasket. When I fitted that, it felt so much better fitting it so I was confident that I'd maybe got this sussed. Got it all back together. Once again, the car initially felt fine but then start to run lumpy maybe 30s to a minute after start up. Again I went around checking my work. No obvious issues, everything seemed to be connected okay. Interestingly, the fault code has now changed to 101F01 - Throttle valve angle - absolute pressure intake manifold, comparison: pressure too high.
So, where do I go now? I'm prepared to pull the valve cover off again as it's really hard to rule out that I could have disturbed the gasket on fitting.
I'm also kicking myself for not changing the inlet manifold gasket when I had to remove it to do the OFHG. So maybe I should just sort that anyway but I'm scratching my head as to why I'd now be getting a different code when all I've done is switch the valve cover over.
I have to admit, I really hope I have a eurkea moment and realise there is some vac line or something I have forgotten to reconnect but I have been pretty thorough.
Do I need to buy a smoke tester...?
All in I'm not sure; a smoke test would be a good place to start
But for me, Ridex are cheap crap and not a brand I'd touch with a barge pole...
Does the OEM cover have the PCV built into it like the N52 one does etc?
I know the Febi Bilstein cover I fitted to my 130i was superbly made and came with all new gaskets, which were excellent quality and exactly the same as the Continental ones I'd bought alongside, just in case
But for me, Ridex are cheap crap and not a brand I'd touch with a barge pole...
Does the OEM cover have the PCV built into it like the N52 one does etc?
I know the Febi Bilstein cover I fitted to my 130i was superbly made and came with all new gaskets, which were excellent quality and exactly the same as the Continental ones I'd bought alongside, just in case
Ridex was my last choice but that seems like red herring anyway now that original Mahle one is back on. Both have the integrated pcv valve. Other than a suspected oil leak there were no issues with the original valve cover.
I’ve ordered a smoke tester but I might pull it all apart again tomorrow anyway while I’m waiting and see if I can spot anything stupid.
I’ve ordered a smoke tester but I might pull it all apart again tomorrow anyway while I’m waiting and see if I can spot anything stupid.
KadettE said:
Did you see any signs of the gasket leaking more than before, maybe into spark plug wells?
Or maybe one of the hoses you had to move around was already knackered and developed a leak?
Nothing obvious but I’ll certainly take a proper look. I’ve deliberately not gone back to it as I have a smoke tester arriving tomorrow and it seemed sensible to test as it is now rather than disturb anything. Or maybe one of the hoses you had to move around was already knackered and developed a leak?
If I had to guess I’ve either managed to disturb the valve cover gasket during install or I should have fitted new inlet manifold gaskets when I refitted. As you say, maybe I’ve damaged a hose or too. Kind of hopeful a smoke tester arriving tomorrow will be fairly definitive.
Sounds like a PCV issue as it's built into the cover. Anything wrong there will create a fairly hefty air leak of unmetered air, hence the fault code you're getting.
Unfortunately BMW's plastics are unbranded, so it's a gamble as to what brand to go with on AutoDoc.
Got the same job to do on my N57 but had to stump up the £400 BMW wanted for the cover as I don't trust pattern ones. The damn things warp from all the DPF heat.
If you need a smoke tester, get the little Autool one from ebay with built in pump as it's very decent for 60 ish quid. You'll need a bottle of Baby oil as your smoke media. You don't need the expensive stuff. It's just mineral oil.
Edit - any vac lines you've forgotten to reconnect?
Unfortunately BMW's plastics are unbranded, so it's a gamble as to what brand to go with on AutoDoc.
Got the same job to do on my N57 but had to stump up the £400 BMW wanted for the cover as I don't trust pattern ones. The damn things warp from all the DPF heat.
If you need a smoke tester, get the little Autool one from ebay with built in pump as it's very decent for 60 ish quid. You'll need a bottle of Baby oil as your smoke media. You don't need the expensive stuff. It's just mineral oil.
Edit - any vac lines you've forgotten to reconnect?
Edited by rottenegg on Friday 28th February 17:55
rottenegg said:
Sounds like a PCV issue as it's built into the cover. Anything wrong there will create a fairly hefty air leak of unmetered air, hence the fault code you're getting.
Unfortunately BMW's plastics are unbranded, so it's a gamble as to what brand to go with on AutoDoc.
Got the same job to do on my N57 but had to stump up the £400 BMW wanted for the cover as I don't trust pattern ones. The damn things warp from all the DPF heat.
If you need a smoke tester, get the little Autool one from ebay with built in pump as it's very decent for 60 ish quid. You'll need a bottle of Baby oil as your smoke media. You don't need the expensive stuff. It's just mineral oil.
Edit - any vac lines you've forgotten to reconnect?
Cheers. Thing is though I didn't have a PCV issue on the original cover, just a suspected oil leak so it would seem strange if the replacement cover had a bad PCV and then the original cover had a pcv issue when refitting it again. Not totally ruled out buying yet another valve cover and returning the cheapo one as I don't think it actually fits correctly but I'd like to find the cause first before spending any more. Think I caught all the vac lines but as above, I guess I could have damaged one. The smoke test should hopefully reveal all. I ordered an Autool one a couple of days ago though I paid the extra for the version with a built in pump. Should be here tomorrow. Have some mineral oil arriving too. I'll report back.Unfortunately BMW's plastics are unbranded, so it's a gamble as to what brand to go with on AutoDoc.
Got the same job to do on my N57 but had to stump up the £400 BMW wanted for the cover as I don't trust pattern ones. The damn things warp from all the DPF heat.
If you need a smoke tester, get the little Autool one from ebay with built in pump as it's very decent for 60 ish quid. You'll need a bottle of Baby oil as your smoke media. You don't need the expensive stuff. It's just mineral oil.
Edit - any vac lines you've forgotten to reconnect?
Edited by rottenegg on Friday 28th February 17:55
Right, an update.
TLDR: It's not fixed but the problem has changed.
Long version. Hooked up the new smoke machine (where has this been all my life?) and found traces of a faint leak around rear of valve cover. Dived in and removed it again (3rd time now, I'm getting quick at this!). Cleaned it meticulously, reseated it and torqued it and this time I did a smoke check before fitting everything back. No sign of a leak so I cracked on and reinstalled everything else.
Once again, car fired up fine, nice and smooth. No errors. Then maybe a minute or two after start up, it started missing again. It's seems to rev cleanly but it's missing at idle.
This time I'm getting a new code, 12A902 Lambda probe after catalytic converter, electrical: short circuit to earth.
I don't know whether to be pleased that it no longer seems to be a vacuum issue or gutted that the bloody thing is still not right! No other codes being thrown up.
Tomorrow, I'll take a good look at the coils and injector cables and make sure I've seated everything properly, otherwise, I'm starting to get bloody annoyed!
Oh, one other observation. When I switch the engine off, I head a bubbling noise around the top of the valve cover. Almost as it liquid is trapped in there and boiling off. I have no idea if that is normal or not but it sounded strange.
TLDR: It's not fixed but the problem has changed.
Long version. Hooked up the new smoke machine (where has this been all my life?) and found traces of a faint leak around rear of valve cover. Dived in and removed it again (3rd time now, I'm getting quick at this!). Cleaned it meticulously, reseated it and torqued it and this time I did a smoke check before fitting everything back. No sign of a leak so I cracked on and reinstalled everything else.
Once again, car fired up fine, nice and smooth. No errors. Then maybe a minute or two after start up, it started missing again. It's seems to rev cleanly but it's missing at idle.
This time I'm getting a new code, 12A902 Lambda probe after catalytic converter, electrical: short circuit to earth.
I don't know whether to be pleased that it no longer seems to be a vacuum issue or gutted that the bloody thing is still not right! No other codes being thrown up.
Tomorrow, I'll take a good look at the coils and injector cables and make sure I've seated everything properly, otherwise, I'm starting to get bloody annoyed!
Oh, one other observation. When I switch the engine off, I head a bubbling noise around the top of the valve cover. Almost as it liquid is trapped in there and boiling off. I have no idea if that is normal or not but it sounded strange.
Arrrgh. This is testing my patience now. That bubbling noise was making me wonder if I'd manged to get cleaning fluid into the PCV valve on the original valve cover so since I had some time I thought I'd try the ridex cover again to at least eliminate that possible issue even if it's not an appealing long term solution. I've been absolutely meticulous checking for leaks as I went along and I'm absolutely confident there are no vacuum leaks anywhere. And yet I'm still getting a misfire a minute or so after cold start and still getting the 12A902 error relating to lambda probe.
I'm kind of stumped now. My gut feeling is that the lambda probe error is a symptom rather than the cause and is being thrown up because the car is misfiring. But I'm getting no other codes despite it running like a total bag of spanners. What I'm flummoxed by is the fact that it starts up fine from cold and it is only after a minute or two that it starts misfiring. What could be changing in that time period that would alter the behaviour of the car?
In the absence of just about any other ideas, I do wonder if I could have damaged a coil pack or two by removing + refitting them. But I would have assumed that would be evident immediately on start up?
I'm kind of stumped now. My gut feeling is that the lambda probe error is a symptom rather than the cause and is being thrown up because the car is misfiring. But I'm getting no other codes despite it running like a total bag of spanners. What I'm flummoxed by is the fact that it starts up fine from cold and it is only after a minute or two that it starts misfiring. What could be changing in that time period that would alter the behaviour of the car?
In the absence of just about any other ideas, I do wonder if I could have damaged a coil pack or two by removing + refitting them. But I would have assumed that would be evident immediately on start up?
Edited by Gad-Westy on Sunday 2nd March 16:45
I'm keen to avoid just throwing money and parts at this on a prayer but is there any substance to the possibility that misfiring on my first attempts at fitting the valve cover (and maybe I did have vac leaks then) have caused damage to the lambda sensor? I'd sort of come to the conclusion that the lambda issue was probably a result of the misfire rather than a cause but then I read something online that suggests that the ECU completely ignores the lambda on initial startup and only looks at it a minute or two after firing up from cold. So, could it be that I've knackered it and now need to replace it? Think they're about £80 so while I don't want to just do it for the sake of it, if there was good reason to think it might be the answer, I'm up for giving it a go.
ETA, in looking up the part no. for the lambda on real OEM, I notice that the connectors for that is one of the a pair that sit on top of the valve cover and must be removed when doing this work. They're been apart a few times now. I wonder if I've damaged one or damaged a cable. Something else to look at there.
ETA, in looking up the part no. for the lambda on real OEM, I notice that the connectors for that is one of the a pair that sit on top of the valve cover and must be removed when doing this work. They're been apart a few times now. I wonder if I've damaged one or damaged a cable. Something else to look at there.
Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 3rd March 11:15
Well, unfortunately I'm no further forward with this. It seems the post-cat o2 sensor is almost certainly not going to cause misfires as more there for monitoring.
I'm a bit stumped now. Tomorrow, I'll do another smoke test in case I could have missed something but I would assume I'd need a fairly sizable leak to cause what is quite a serious misfire.
I'm also certain that the fact it runs okay initially for a minute or two must be an important clue. Something changes to cause the misfire.
I'm prepared to invest in ISTA (no idea what I need yet though) but I'm not really sure what I'll be looking for on that that I cannot do with bimmerlink.
I'm a bit stumped now. Tomorrow, I'll do another smoke test in case I could have missed something but I would assume I'd need a fairly sizable leak to cause what is quite a serious misfire.
I'm also certain that the fact it runs okay initially for a minute or two must be an important clue. Something changes to cause the misfire.
I'm prepared to invest in ISTA (no idea what I need yet though) but I'm not really sure what I'll be looking for on that that I cannot do with bimmerlink.
Gad-Westy said:
Well, unfortunately I'm no further forward with this. It seems the post-cat o2 sensor is almost certainly not going to cause misfires as more there for monitoring.
I'm a bit stumped now. Tomorrow, I'll do another smoke test in case I could have missed something but I would assume I'd need a fairly sizable leak to cause what is quite a serious misfire.
I'm also certain that the fact it runs okay initially for a minute or two must be an important clue. Something changes to cause the misfire.
I'm prepared to invest in ISTA (no idea what I need yet though) but I'm not really sure what I'll be looking for on that that I cannot do with bimmerlink.
There is very little to invest in ISTA. My set-up cost £7 for the ENET cable and then the software was free I'm a bit stumped now. Tomorrow, I'll do another smoke test in case I could have missed something but I would assume I'd need a fairly sizable leak to cause what is quite a serious misfire.
I'm also certain that the fact it runs okay initially for a minute or two must be an important clue. Something changes to cause the misfire.
I'm prepared to invest in ISTA (no idea what I need yet though) but I'm not really sure what I'll be looking for on that that I cannot do with bimmerlink.
Do you get any codes for misfire? If not you can try looking at the number of misfires per cylinder to see if it's limited to one only and try swapping coil/plug from a non-misfiring cylinder. Although those would cause misfire straight away probably.
ETA: Could it be to do with you switching the vanos solenoids?
ETA: Could it be to do with you switching the vanos solenoids?
Edited by KadettE on Wednesday 5th March 08:41
KadettE said:
Do you get any codes for misfire? If not you can try looking at the number of misfires per cylinder to see if it's limited to one only and try swapping coil/plug from a non-misfiring cylinder.
As above, in my admittedly very long rambling, I'm only getting 12A902 which relates to post-cat lambda. No misfire codes or other codes relating to engine operation. Otherwise, as you say I could have started to eliminate items if it only related to one cyclinder. To me though it sounds like multiple cylinders anyway. Seems a more 'global' issue. It did occur to me that I did have both vanos solenoids out, cleaned them and swapped them over during all this work. I'm clutching at straws here but if one of those was not operating properly, could it cause a bad misfire shortly after start up? But I would have assumed I'd see a code or two?
Dannbodge said:
Gad-Westy said:
Well, unfortunately I'm no further forward with this. It seems the post-cat o2 sensor is almost certainly not going to cause misfires as more there for monitoring.
I'm a bit stumped now. Tomorrow, I'll do another smoke test in case I could have missed something but I would assume I'd need a fairly sizable leak to cause what is quite a serious misfire.
I'm also certain that the fact it runs okay initially for a minute or two must be an important clue. Something changes to cause the misfire.
I'm prepared to invest in ISTA (no idea what I need yet though) but I'm not really sure what I'll be looking for on that that I cannot do with bimmerlink.
There is very little to invest in ISTA. My set-up cost £7 for the ENET cable and then the software was free I'm a bit stumped now. Tomorrow, I'll do another smoke test in case I could have missed something but I would assume I'd need a fairly sizable leak to cause what is quite a serious misfire.
I'm also certain that the fact it runs okay initially for a minute or two must be an important clue. Something changes to cause the misfire.
I'm prepared to invest in ISTA (no idea what I need yet though) but I'm not really sure what I'll be looking for on that that I cannot do with bimmerlink.
I have to admit though, even if I do get ISTA working, I'm not actually sure what I'm meant to be looking at on it. Presumably it will give me the same codes as bimmerlink? So after that it's presumably all about monitoring individual channels or performing calibrations but through all my homework on this, I don't seem to able to find anyone who can actually say what I should be looking at.
Well it's not fixed but there is some new info for me to look into.
After disconnecting the vanos solenoids and cleaning the contacts a little, I plugged them back in, fired up the car and it was still idling roughly. But I thought sod it, I'll take it for a short drive and see what happens. I probably went about a mile before I got a drive train, drive moderately warning. And that in turn gave me some new clues to look at....
132408 - Vanos, exhaust: camshaft not in locking position when starting.
12A902 - Lambda probe after catalytic converter, electrical: shirt circuit to earth (as I've had for a while)
130304 - Vanos, exhaust: control error, camshaft is stuck
120408 - Boost pressure control: shutdown as follow up reaction (which I take to mean that's a resultant action from the vanos issue).
So, questions....
I seem to have some sort of issue relating to my exhaust vanos solenoid (possibly self inflicted when cleaning them) and hopefully that is easily fixed even if it means buying a new one. But could it cause this sort of rough running or is this a red herring?
After disconnecting the vanos solenoids and cleaning the contacts a little, I plugged them back in, fired up the car and it was still idling roughly. But I thought sod it, I'll take it for a short drive and see what happens. I probably went about a mile before I got a drive train, drive moderately warning. And that in turn gave me some new clues to look at....
132408 - Vanos, exhaust: camshaft not in locking position when starting.
12A902 - Lambda probe after catalytic converter, electrical: shirt circuit to earth (as I've had for a while)
130304 - Vanos, exhaust: control error, camshaft is stuck
120408 - Boost pressure control: shutdown as follow up reaction (which I take to mean that's a resultant action from the vanos issue).
So, questions....
I seem to have some sort of issue relating to my exhaust vanos solenoid (possibly self inflicted when cleaning them) and hopefully that is easily fixed even if it means buying a new one. But could it cause this sort of rough running or is this a red herring?
In the first post you said you swapped the vanos solenoids. Just wondering if they are still in that position, i.e. the codes didn't follow and are still on exhaust after swapping. Something that was mentioned in the other thread related to camshaft position sensor connections. Wild speculation on my part but maybe you had a lightly damaged connector and it got disturbed somehow when you were in there?
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