Charging a very tired battery of an EV

[m3cs]

I am considering making our local run around car an EV, to dip my toe into the water. I see a lot of cheap high mileage EVs such as the Nissan leaf, where you basically get 20 miles of range if lucky. Thing is though…that is enough for the use case.

So my question is: if a car originally had 100 mile range but is now 20 miles, does it cost just as much and take just as much time to charge? I can never find a definitive answer to this question.

Thanks.

[ZesPak]

The battery loses capacity, in most senses this goes in both directions. So you just can't put anything more in it than the kwh it can take. If it had 100 mile range on the original battery (eg 30kwh), but now just has 50 mile range, the battery capacity would be around 15kwh.

TL;DR : The time per mile charged stays the same. If your battery capacity is compromised, the time to charge it will also be lower.

PS: 20 miles seems like an extreme example, I don't think that exists?

[Turtle Shed]

Efficiency doesn't change. I might not be able to get the same range out of my 10 year old Leaf as I did when it was new, but the amount of electricity to move it is still he same. Still does about 3.8 miles per Kw/h.

As to a 20 mile range, that's hard to comment on, because even if you took something more modern, and hooned it up a very long hill, whilst using every possible electrical system, in the freezing cold, the range would be dramatically reduced.

I would say that if the dump is 10-15 miles away, and you just drive there in a normal manner, there isn't Leaf out there that wouldn't do that trip unless the battery really is absolutely knackered.

The good news is there's a battery health gauge and a display showing range etc...

Local trips to the dump are a perfect EV job. As are trips to the supermarket, golf club, gym, whatever... In fact I would argue that for many, if you have space on your drive, an old Leaf might be a no-brainer.

[gmaz]

Leafs with very poor range generally have just one bad module that prevents the whole battery from charging. The module(s) can be replaced for £700-£1400 according to this video.

[TheRainMaker]

There is a good video here of an eleven-year-old BMW i3 with a 20-mile range getting a new battery fitted, it is a bit of a challenge by all accounts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szYFDAVTnVk

But back to the original question, if the car only has a capacity of 20kWh, it will only take 20kWh.

[Evanivitch]

TheRainMaker said:

There is a good video here of an eleven-year-old BMW i3 with a 20-mile range getting a new battery fitted, it is a bit of a challenge by all accounts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szYFDAVTnVk

But back to the original question, if the car only has a capacity of 20kWh, it will only take 20kWh.

Place in Brecon, Powys will swap your new larger i3 battery in same day.

[m3cs]

Thanks for all the replies. My leaf example was based on perhaps misremembered details from a YouTube video where someone intentionally bought a poor one.

Key thing I was after was “ The time per mile charged stays the same”

[TheRainMaker]

Evanivitch said:

TheRainMaker said:

There is a good video here of an eleven-year-old BMW i3 with a 20-mile range getting a new battery fitted, it is a bit of a challenge by all accounts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szYFDAVTnVk

But back to the original question, if the car only has a capacity of 20kWh, it will only take 20kWh.

Place in Brecon, Powys will swap your new larger i3 battery in same day.

That's impressive if true

It makes you wonder why the guys in the video struggled so much.

[Evanivitch]

TheRainMaker said:

Evanivitch said:

TheRainMaker said:

There is a good video here of an eleven-year-old BMW i3 with a 20-mile range getting a new battery fitted, it is a bit of a challenge by all accounts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szYFDAVTnVk

But back to the original question, if the car only has a capacity of 20kWh, it will only take 20kWh.

Place in Brecon, Powys will swap your new larger i3 battery in same day.

That's impressive if true

It makes you wonder why the guys in the video struggled so much.

https://www.evsalesandrepairs.co.uk/services.php

[TheRainMaker]

Evanivitch said:

TheRainMaker said:

Evanivitch said:

TheRainMaker said:

There is a good video here of an eleven-year-old BMW i3 with a 20-mile range getting a new battery fitted, it is a bit of a challenge by all accounts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szYFDAVTnVk

But back to the original question, if the car only has a capacity of 20kWh, it will only take 20kWh.

Place in Brecon, Powys will swap your new larger i3 battery in same day.

That's impressive if true

It makes you wonder why the guys in the video struggled so much.

https://www.evsalesandrepairs.co.uk/services.php

I found that one, but no mention of a same day swap out etc.

I guess its a phone call job.

[PistonTim]

m3cs said:

Thanks for all the replies. My leaf example was based on perhaps misremembered details from a YouTube video where someone intentionally bought a poor one.

Key thing I was after was “ The time per mile charged stays the same”

Correct, if the petrol tank is half the size it will take half the time to fill, as a comparable.

[eth2190]

FWIW I have enquired with the chap in Brecon about upgrading my i3 with a bigger battery. He quoted me £1k for the swap, that's with me sourcing the battery.

[Evanivitch]

TheRainMaker said:

Evanivitch said:

TheRainMaker said:

Evanivitch said:

TheRainMaker said:

There is a good video here of an eleven-year-old BMW i3 with a 20-mile range getting a new battery fitted, it is a bit of a challenge by all accounts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szYFDAVTnVk

But back to the original question, if the car only has a capacity of 20kWh, it will only take 20kWh.

Place in Brecon, Powys will swap your new larger i3 battery in same day.

That's impressive if true

It makes you wonder why the guys in the video struggled so much.

https://www.evsalesandrepairs.co.uk/services.php

I found that one, but no mention of a same day swap out etc.

I guess its a phone call job.

See their Facebook page.

[Arnold Cunningham]

TheRainMaker said:

It makes you wonder why the guys in the video struggled so much.

I just watched the video. Looks like it was mostly easy, other than he wasn't sure about how to code the new battery so that took a while. That's the kind of thing that takes ages the first time but once you know what you're doing it's easy.

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Tuesday 25th February 19:45

[Toaster Pilot]

m3cs said:

I am considering making our local run around car an EV, to dip my toe into the water. I see a lot of cheap high mileage EVs such as the Nissan leaf, where you basically get 20 miles of range if lucky. Thing is though…that is enough for the use case.

So my question is: if a car originally had 100 mile range but is now 20 miles, does it cost just as much and take just as much time to charge? I can never find a definitive answer to this question.

Thanks.

A worn battery has a lower state of health - and usable capacity is lower as a result.

It can store less energy, and therefore takes less charging.

A Leaf with 20 miles range would be REALLY knackered though - there’s plenty of cheap healthy ones around, so buy one of those instead.

[Ian Geary]

FWIW i was nosing around Leafs on autotrader the other week. Bottom end ones (ie £2k - £3k) still seemed to have ranges of 60 - 70 miles showing on the internal display, certainly nothing as low as 20.

I'm facing an impending clutch / DMF change on my car soon as well as needing to remove the subframe to fix leaking sump gasket, so it was the simplicity of a BEV car that appealed, as well as the cost saving for short run-around journeys.

It's just a shame the designs are so awful, and the price of larger BEVs goes upwards so rapidly.

[ZesPak]

I think the Zoe has always been a cute car. The Leaf's styling is very "out there" indeed.
Too bad a lot of the Zoe's seem to come with a battery lease.

[Danm1les]

How much are you looking to spend? I have an Kia Soul that gets about 100-120 miles on a full charge and it barely does 5 miles a day and I charge it once a week. Its lucky to leave the village and break 40mph. You can get them for around £5-6k.

[Toaster Pilot]

Danm1les said:

How much are you looking to spend? I have an Kia Soul that gets about 100-120 miles on a full charge and it barely does 5 miles a day and I charge it once a week. Its lucky to leave the village and break 40mph. You can get them for around £5-6k.

Needs to be the 30kWh model and not the older 27kWh one though which seems to suffer from *horrendous* degradation for some reason. There’s one in BCA at the moment that looks like it wouldn’t be far off OP’s 20 mile prediction

[BertBert]

ZesPak said:

I think the Zoe has always been a cute car. The Leaf's styling is very "out there" indeed.
Too bad a lot of the Zoe's seem to come with a battery lease.

Surely there are not that many left with battery leases?