UK and India relaunch trade talks in Delhi
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg1xjpnkl2o
UK and India resume talks on a free trade agreement.
Sticking points include high tariffs in India on Scotch whisky and relaxing fees and visa rules for Indian students and professionals going to the UK.
if Labour cave in to demands for increased visas for Indian professionals, they are really going to get it come the next election.
UK and India resume talks on a free trade agreement.
Sticking points include high tariffs in India on Scotch whisky and relaxing fees and visa rules for Indian students and professionals going to the UK.
if Labour cave in to demands for increased visas for Indian professionals, they are really going to get it come the next election.
s1962a said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg1xjpnkl2o
UK and India resume talks on a free trade agreement.
Sticking points include high tariffs in India on Scotch whisky and relaxing fees and visa rules for Indian students and professionals going to the UK.
if Labour cave in to demands for increased visas for Indian professionals, they are really going to get it come the next election.
Must be tough as a Reform supporter. On the one hand the great white elephant of international trade deals has never been delivered so brexit wasn't done right, on the other you fear that they might result in more immigration.UK and India resume talks on a free trade agreement.
Sticking points include high tariffs in India on Scotch whisky and relaxing fees and visa rules for Indian students and professionals going to the UK.
if Labour cave in to demands for increased visas for Indian professionals, they are really going to get it come the next election.
They will result in more immigration and Modi doesn't care about anything other than what improves his electoral chances which means more visas.
Should the UK stand strong and say no to trade deals that might involve making deals? It's hardly a worry. Talks with India have been going on for years and they will continue to get nowhere.
cheesejunkie said:
Must be tough as a Reform supporter. On the one hand the great white elephant of international trade deals has never been delivered so brexit wasn't done right, on the other you fear that they might result in more immigration.
They will result in more immigration and Modi doesn't care about anything other than what improves his electoral chances which means more visas.
Should the UK stand strong and say no to trade deals that might involve making deals? It's hardly a worry. Talks with India have been going on for years and they will continue to get nowhere.
Yes, definitely a worry. We are already at a million non EU migration per year (600k odd net migration). How many more visas can we give India to get this trade deal over the line, and where does that leave the UK in terms of migration numbers. What we need to be doing is training our own people - not giving into visa demands so we can trade more with India.They will result in more immigration and Modi doesn't care about anything other than what improves his electoral chances which means more visas.
Should the UK stand strong and say no to trade deals that might involve making deals? It's hardly a worry. Talks with India have been going on for years and they will continue to get nowhere.
s1962a said:
Yes, definitely a worry. We are already at a million non EU migration per year (600k odd net migration). How many more visas can we give India to get this trade deal over the line, and where does that leave the UK in terms of migration numbers. What we need to be doing is training our own people - not giving into visa demands so we can trade more with India.
What does "we need to be training our own people" mean?Education, health, accommodation. Make them affordable. That's what counts. I'd add prospects but that would sound airy fairy. You can't put people in a factory farm and hope they'll work to save someone from requiring immigrants.
Here's the reality. We need immigration to satisfy the demands of the society we like living in. Making international trade deals as a lone country will involve increased movement of people. If I thought the India trade deal would really cause so many to crap themselves I'd still hold off investing in Andrex, it's miles away.
Who are these Indian 'professionals'?
Apparently people coming in last year as skilled in 'shortage' subjects ranged from IT professors to apprentice dog groomers.
I've done some work with a few companies with strong connections to India, world class PhD types coming over to do development work in the UK.
The principle is good, but it's been ineptly managed or downright corrupted.
Apparently people coming in last year as skilled in 'shortage' subjects ranged from IT professors to apprentice dog groomers.
I've done some work with a few companies with strong connections to India, world class PhD types coming over to do development work in the UK.
The principle is good, but it's been ineptly managed or downright corrupted.
cheesejunkie said:
s1962a said:
Yes, definitely a worry. We are already at a million non EU migration per year (600k odd net migration). How many more visas can we give India to get this trade deal over the line, and where does that leave the UK in terms of migration numbers. What we need to be doing is training our own people - not giving into visa demands so we can trade more with India.
What does "we need to be training our own people" mean?Education, health, accommodation. Make them affordable. That's what counts. I'd add prospects but that would sound airy fairy. You can't put people in a factory farm and hope they'll work to save someone from requiring immigrants.
Here's the reality. We need immigration to satisfy the demands of the society we like living in. Making international trade deals as a lone country will involve increased movement of people. If I thought the India trade deal would really cause so many to crap themselves I'd still hold off investing in Andrex, it's miles away.
a) cheaper for businesses to hire workers that our own population won't do
b) puts a strain on our services
If we increased wages + training so that our own workforce would do these jobs then increased prices are a small price to pay so that we don't need so many immigrants for those jobs.
cheesejunkie said:
s1962a said:
Yes, definitely a worry. We are already at a million non EU migration per year (600k odd net migration). How many more visas can we give India to get this trade deal over the line, and where does that leave the UK in terms of migration numbers. What we need to be doing is training our own people - not giving into visa demands so we can trade more with India.
What does "we need to be training our own people" mean?cheesejunkie said:
What does "we need to be training our own people" mean?
Education, health, accommodation. Make them affordable. That's what counts. I'd add prospects but that would sound airy fairy. You can't put people in a factory farm and hope they'll work to save someone from requiring immigrants.
Here's the reality. We need immigration to satisfy the demands of the society we like living in. Making international trade deals as a lone country will involve increased movement of people. If I thought the India trade deal would really cause so many to crap themselves I'd still hold off investing in Andrex, it's miles away.
Education is what many are coming over from India for, and those coming evidently don't find health and accommodation an issue...or the future prospects of working here...Education, health, accommodation. Make them affordable. That's what counts. I'd add prospects but that would sound airy fairy. You can't put people in a factory farm and hope they'll work to save someone from requiring immigrants.
Here's the reality. We need immigration to satisfy the demands of the society we like living in. Making international trade deals as a lone country will involve increased movement of people. If I thought the India trade deal would really cause so many to crap themselves I'd still hold off investing in Andrex, it's miles away.
Sort those breaching visa conditions out so the piss taking demonstrably stops and a large part of me shrugs my shoulders and says bring it on.
But we really have to sort why we "need" so many immigrants in the first place. Getting the millions of economically inactive, active again wouldn't be a bad start! A fifth of working age people aren't. 8m people....but we "need" 1m immigrants a year....
Murph7355 said:
cheesejunkie said:
What does "we need to be training our own people" mean?
Education, health, accommodation. Make them affordable. That's what counts. I'd add prospects but that would sound airy fairy. You can't put people in a factory farm and hope they'll work to save someone from requiring immigrants.
Here's the reality. We need immigration to satisfy the demands of the society we like living in. Making international trade deals as a lone country will involve increased movement of people. If I thought the India trade deal would really cause so many to crap themselves I'd still hold off investing in Andrex, it's miles away.
Education is what many are coming over from India for, and those coming evidently don't find health and accommodation an issue...or the future prospects of working here...Education, health, accommodation. Make them affordable. That's what counts. I'd add prospects but that would sound airy fairy. You can't put people in a factory farm and hope they'll work to save someone from requiring immigrants.
Here's the reality. We need immigration to satisfy the demands of the society we like living in. Making international trade deals as a lone country will involve increased movement of people. If I thought the India trade deal would really cause so many to crap themselves I'd still hold off investing in Andrex, it's miles away.
Sort those breaching visa conditions out so the piss taking demonstrably stops and a large part of me shrugs my shoulders and says bring it on.
But we really have to sort why we "need" so many immigrants in the first place. Getting the millions of economically inactive, active again wouldn't be a bad start! A fifth of working age people aren't. 8m people....but we "need" 1m immigrants a year....
OutInTheShed said:
Who are these Indian 'professionals'?
Apparently people coming in last year as skilled in 'shortage' subjects ranged from IT professors to apprentice dog groomers.
I've done some work with a few companies with strong connections to India, world class PhD types coming over to do development work in the UK.
The principle is good, but it's been ineptly managed or downright corrupted.
The service sector where I live has been flooded with Indians - i.e. delivery drivers, supermarket workers, restaurant workers - its very noticeable.Apparently people coming in last year as skilled in 'shortage' subjects ranged from IT professors to apprentice dog groomers.
I've done some work with a few companies with strong connections to India, world class PhD types coming over to do development work in the UK.
The principle is good, but it's been ineptly managed or downright corrupted.
If you want know why Net Zero UK is entertaining trade talks with one of the largest polluting economies on the planet, then as usual, follow the money.
Check the number of (and value) of Indian trade visits in politician’s declared receipts.
No strategy, just grift. f
k UK businesses with high energy costs and take the donations from India and CCP.
Check the number of (and value) of Indian trade visits in politician’s declared receipts.
No strategy, just grift. f
k UK businesses with high energy costs and take the donations from India and CCP.Mojooo said:
The service sector where I live has been flooded with Indians - i.e. delivery drivers, supermarket workers, restaurant workers - its very noticeable.
On top of the very-substandard IT workers who lie on their CV like they were a Labour minister. There are other countries who are taking over in IT anyway e.g. Philippines - I have a much better overall experience.Indian students pay an awful lot of money to study in the UK. And the Indians I have worked with have always been very hard working nice people.
I see nothing wrong here. (And I'm a Reform voter ((no other choice let's be honest)) and probably a bit grrrrrr, Right Wing)
Don't confuse rich overseas students and genuine professionals with migrant ecconomic grifters.
I see nothing wrong here. (And I'm a Reform voter ((no other choice let's be honest)) and probably a bit grrrrrr, Right Wing)
Don't confuse rich overseas students and genuine professionals with migrant ecconomic grifters.
Timothy Bucktu said:
And the Indians I have worked with have always been very hard working nice people.
It has been a mixed bag for me - ranging from hard working nice professional, to downright stupid, to extremely boastful ("India is going to be the biggest economy in the world" - the dude got very upset when someone told him "well done for having an economy 1/5 the size of the EU but with 3 times the population .. {with clapping}".Timothy Bucktu said:
Indian students pay an awful lot of money to study in the UK. And the Indians I have worked with have always been very hard working nice people.
I see nothing wrong here. (And I'm a Reform voter ((no other choice let's be honest)) and probably a bit grrrrrr, Right Wing)
Don't confuse rich overseas students and genuine professionals with migrant ecconomic grifters.
India is a massive place. It's like any other massive place; full of good, bad and indifferent.I see nothing wrong here. (And I'm a Reform voter ((no other choice let's be honest)) and probably a bit grrrrrr, Right Wing)
Don't confuse rich overseas students and genuine professionals with migrant ecconomic grifters.
IMHO the issue is not so much the immigration, although I'd agree, we have some lines we do not want to cross, but rather the trade issue. The playing field is not level, in fact it's practically vertical. With red Ed's mad energy policy, we have the highest rates in the entire world and without countervailing measures, it will kill off - and possible forever - what remaining industry we still have.
Trade deals with India are a TOTAL WASTE of time. What are we trading apart from Whisky.
Those Indians that can afford it already buy British goods and the market is saturated.
We are primarily a services country. What services are we selling?
The average Indian cannot afford or doesn't need any services that we sell to everyday British Citizens.
Yes of course BAE Systems may sell 1 or 2 Hawk Training Aircraft but that isn't going to cut the mustard.
Therefore the benefit is ONLY for the following reason:
They have a HUGE population that needs jobs and British Corporations want to drive down salaries.
Forget about Students. Real very bright ones are only a handful and most want to go to MIT or Stanford etc.
The rest of the students are looking for work but are disguising it with a student visa.
I have seen a FTSE 100 company replace whole teams with offshore teams who suddenly turn up at the office "TO BE TRAINED" for 8 weeks. All of this done on the back of a HOLIDAY VISA!
The maths is very simple. Compare wages and what the average Indian lives on per day. It is a very meagre existence.
Ten years ago when our interest rates were very low thousands of Indian workers in Britain were availing themselves of short term unsecured smallish (£5000) loans from our High Streets Banks. They were immediately depositing that cash in Indian Banks where their interest rates have been double digits for at least 50 years. Then paying down the loan with their monthly salaries.
Therefore British Government needs to look elsewhere. There are plenty of other countries.
Those Indians that can afford it already buy British goods and the market is saturated.
We are primarily a services country. What services are we selling?
The average Indian cannot afford or doesn't need any services that we sell to everyday British Citizens.
Yes of course BAE Systems may sell 1 or 2 Hawk Training Aircraft but that isn't going to cut the mustard.
Therefore the benefit is ONLY for the following reason:
They have a HUGE population that needs jobs and British Corporations want to drive down salaries.
Forget about Students. Real very bright ones are only a handful and most want to go to MIT or Stanford etc.
The rest of the students are looking for work but are disguising it with a student visa.
I have seen a FTSE 100 company replace whole teams with offshore teams who suddenly turn up at the office "TO BE TRAINED" for 8 weeks. All of this done on the back of a HOLIDAY VISA!
The maths is very simple. Compare wages and what the average Indian lives on per day. It is a very meagre existence.
Ten years ago when our interest rates were very low thousands of Indian workers in Britain were availing themselves of short term unsecured smallish (£5000) loans from our High Streets Banks. They were immediately depositing that cash in Indian Banks where their interest rates have been double digits for at least 50 years. Then paying down the loan with their monthly salaries.
Therefore British Government needs to look elsewhere. There are plenty of other countries.
fido said:
It has been a mixed bag for me - ranging from hard working nice professional, to downright stupid, to extremely boastful ("India is going to be the biggest economy in the world" - the dude got very upset when someone told him "well done for having an economy 1/5 the size of the EU but with 3 times the population .. {with clapping}".
Except1) the EU is not a country
2) India are the 5th biggest economy now. They were 6th 5yrs ago. 25yrs ago they weren't in the top 10
3) We can say it's because of population...but we are so s
t out of ideas (all European nations - the real ones, not trading blocs) that the only way our cretinous leaders can think of growing our own GDP is importing people.Be careful what fights you pick.
Meanwhile it should be no shock that every country has brilliant people AND lazy feckless morons...and everything inbetween.
Digga said:
If you want know why Net Zero UK is entertaining trade talks with one of the largest polluting economies on the planet, then as usual, follow the money.
Check the number of (and value) of Indian trade visits in politician’s declared receipts.
No strategy, just grift. fk UK businesses with high energy costs and take the donations from India and CCP.
Nail on the head there. The UK is being asset stripped. There is a certain symmetry to it all though. Check the number of (and value) of Indian trade visits in politician’s declared receipts.
No strategy, just grift. f
k UK businesses with high energy costs and take the donations from India and CCP.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff