Happy to Pay for Better Security/Defence?
Poll: Happy to Pay for Better Security/Defence?
Total Members Polled: 245
Discussion
I'm old enough to remember the 1960's and '70s and all the British designed and built war planes of that era
Vulcan, Victor, Canberra, Lightning, Buccaneer, Javelin, Hunter, Meteor, Harrier, to name but a few.
I also remember the amount of skilled and well paid jobs these aircraft created.
Vulcan, Victor, Canberra, Lightning, Buccaneer, Javelin, Hunter, Meteor, Harrier, to name but a few.
I also remember the amount of skilled and well paid jobs these aircraft created.
It would be reassuring to see procurement that isn't a sickening waste and the solving of existing problems - uncrewed ships for the sake of a few million quid in crew conditions and wages - before the taps turn on.
Countdown said:
Better things to spend our money on.
When you look at what the British military has been involved in over the last 30+ years most of it seems to have been to benefit the US. For example I'm not sure why we were involved in invading Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Libya etc
Going forward, I don't think pleasing the US is a priority any more. When you look at what the British military has been involved in over the last 30+ years most of it seems to have been to benefit the US. For example I'm not sure why we were involved in invading Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Libya etc
I voted yes. Maybe if we could make a voluntary payment directly into an NHS or Defence "bucket" via tax code or self assessment, similar to gift aid. It would reduce taxable income and also benefit those two causes directly.
I also see massive opportunity for the UK to develop its existing defence manufacturing and become a world leader - jobs, growth etc will follow. We should focus on manufacturing and training and retaining skills. Its madness to think that we've got steel works that are at risk, when the ability to manufacture steel etc is a critical part of the supply chain for building things like tanks and engines?
We should also be focusing on energy security - nuclear, large chemical storage, and renewables. Latter because they tend to be decentralized.
Finally, regardless if the orange chimp does an about turn, there is no doubt that the UK and Europe are over-reliant on US capabilities and whims.
I also see massive opportunity for the UK to develop its existing defence manufacturing and become a world leader - jobs, growth etc will follow. We should focus on manufacturing and training and retaining skills. Its madness to think that we've got steel works that are at risk, when the ability to manufacture steel etc is a critical part of the supply chain for building things like tanks and engines?
We should also be focusing on energy security - nuclear, large chemical storage, and renewables. Latter because they tend to be decentralized.
Finally, regardless if the orange chimp does an about turn, there is no doubt that the UK and Europe are over-reliant on US capabilities and whims.
Countdown said:
Better things to spend our money on.
When you look at what the British military has been involved in over the last 30+ years most of it seems to have been to benefit the US. For example I'm not sure why we were involved in invading Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Libya etc
This. When you look at what the British military has been involved in over the last 30+ years most of it seems to have been to benefit the US. For example I'm not sure why we were involved in invading Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Libya etc
To be fair, we didn't really get a say back then and I doubt we will now too.
55palfers said:
I'm old enough to remember the 1960's and '70s and all the British designed and built war planes of that era
Vulcan, Victor, Canberra, Lightning, Buccaneer, Javelin, Hunter, Meteor, Harrier, to name but a few.
I also remember the amount of skilled and well paid jobs these aircraft created.
Yes, me too.Vulcan, Victor, Canberra, Lightning, Buccaneer, Javelin, Hunter, Meteor, Harrier, to name but a few.
I also remember the amount of skilled and well paid jobs these aircraft created.
Happy to see better defence forces however we're already the 5th biggest spender in the world according to the IISS @ $81bn and seem to have very little to show for it, so I fear adding another $20 billion will just be more money down the drain.
More horses than tanks more admirals than ships etc...
Wills2 said:
Happy to see better defence forces however we're already the 5th biggest spender in the world according to the IISS @ $81bn and seem to have very little to show for it, so I fear adding another $20 billion will just be more money down the drain.
More horses than tanks more admirals than ships etc...
Agreed.More horses than tanks more admirals than ships etc...
Anyway, if the s
t hits the fan, we have nukes. Who is actually going to directly invade the UK?No. I am happy for the defence budget to get bigger at the expense of other things like foreign AID. Roary Stewart moaning about his wife's charity loosing a million. What do they do teach afghan women about modern art....fk that. That was us aid I suspect we pay for similar. I also suspect his wife took a huge chunk of that for herself
k that. That was us aid I suspect we pay for similar. I also suspect his wife took a huge chunk of that for herselfFoolish not to. We have fewer friends and plenty of circling enemies.
I'd love to bury my head in the sand but the lead time to gain strength is too long to hang about. Hopefully Europe will respond similarly.
We can have no prosperity without security. Some seem to think we're secure anyhow. I think they're naive.
I'd love to bury my head in the sand but the lead time to gain strength is too long to hang about. Hopefully Europe will respond similarly.
We can have no prosperity without security. Some seem to think we're secure anyhow. I think they're naive.
Mabbs9 said:
Foolish not to. We have fewer friends and plenty of circling enemies.
I'd love to bury my head in the sand but the lead time to gain strength is too long to hang about. Hopefully Europe will respond similarly.
We can have no prosperity without security. Some seem to think we're secure anyhow. I think they're naive.
Can you explain who would be attacking us and how? The most I can see is cyber warfare or Russia testing our air defenses by flying close to us, which they do all the time anyway. If there are any facts, other than "omg Russia" then i'd like to read them.I'd love to bury my head in the sand but the lead time to gain strength is too long to hang about. Hopefully Europe will respond similarly.
We can have no prosperity without security. Some seem to think we're secure anyhow. I think they're naive.
I’ve replied yes.
But it has caveats. I want it spent within the UK first and EU second if not feasible for the Uk to make or design.
I want the reliance on others tapered down to a minimum.
I want it spent smartly. No point in having 1000 tanks when a £1k drone can take it out.
Invest in cyber warfare and defence.
Invest in drone technology.
Invest in high quality difficult to produce/design products.
The uk doesn’t do mass production any more. We excel in low quality highly technical design and implementation. Use it to our advantage.
But it has caveats. I want it spent within the UK first and EU second if not feasible for the Uk to make or design.
I want the reliance on others tapered down to a minimum.
I want it spent smartly. No point in having 1000 tanks when a £1k drone can take it out.
Invest in cyber warfare and defence.
Invest in drone technology.
Invest in high quality difficult to produce/design products.
The uk doesn’t do mass production any more. We excel in low quality highly technical design and implementation. Use it to our advantage.
valiant said:
In theory yes but defence procurement just seems a black hole for spending tax payers cash so I'd want to see some changes to how it's spent first.
Yes - that's the logical answer isn't it? Root and branch review, cut wastage, fewer middle-managers/officers etc. And I'm not mocking Valiant, that's the best approach surely? I voted yes but I would like to caveat that I would like to see the money being invested back into the UK's economy as far as reasonably possible. We have a rich history of engineering and design expertise - we could even use it as an opportunity to bolster/reboot in-country manufacturing (especially when it comes to proprietary technology/designs etc).
I would not, for example, be in favour of seeing £millions flowing out to places like the US where we effectively 'just buy bullets'. Whilst Trump is at the helm, the US is no longer a friend or ally to be trusted by default; as awful as it sounds, we should proceed as if they could at any point become an adversary.
I would not, for example, be in favour of seeing £millions flowing out to places like the US where we effectively 'just buy bullets'. Whilst Trump is at the helm, the US is no longer a friend or ally to be trusted by default; as awful as it sounds, we should proceed as if they could at any point become an adversary.
I see little to be gained from large increases in the defence budget. Such increased spending would in any case likely be largely wasted given the general competency of the British state or used for purposes that do not benefit the average UK citizen.
The UK should have a sufficiently large budget to play its role within NATO but no more.
The economic and fiscal situation is dire and we could not afford substantial rearmament without cutting other large areas of spending, such working age benefits.
The UK should have a sufficiently large budget to play its role within NATO but no more.
The economic and fiscal situation is dire and we could not afford substantial rearmament without cutting other large areas of spending, such working age benefits.
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