458 vs Track days and hard driving.
Discussion
Afternoon,
I have spent a quite lot of time revving the nuts of 991 GT3, on track and across the rural roads where I live. It’s great fun, very reliable and the engine feels bomb proof.
I’ve never owned a Ferrari, but being a mainly Porsche man considered Ferrari to be less reliable and more fragile - but have no experience.
Over the next couple months I am considering picking up another fun car and the 458 is right at the top of my list - something different to a Porsche.
So, my question is: How is the 458 going to fair against a 991.2 or 992 GT3 when being driven properly? Reliability? Probs 7-10yrs age diff?
Many thanks.
I have spent a quite lot of time revving the nuts of 991 GT3, on track and across the rural roads where I live. It’s great fun, very reliable and the engine feels bomb proof.
I’ve never owned a Ferrari, but being a mainly Porsche man considered Ferrari to be less reliable and more fragile - but have no experience.
Over the next couple months I am considering picking up another fun car and the 458 is right at the top of my list - something different to a Porsche.
So, my question is: How is the 458 going to fair against a 991.2 or 992 GT3 when being driven properly? Reliability? Probs 7-10yrs age diff?
Many thanks.
My understanding is the engines and drivetrain are reliable, no clutch to worry about for example. However, as a first time Ferrari owner coming from 911's, whilst I was expecting higher parts prices, I wasn't quite prepared for the actual level of some items!
if you are looking at 458's with CCB's which I think we optional on the 458? (my 488 is fitted with CCB's as standard,) a full set of discs and pads is in the region of £19k! For a 991 GT3 maybe £3k - £4k for the same??
if you are looking at 458's with CCB's which I think we optional on the 458? (my 488 is fitted with CCB's as standard,) a full set of discs and pads is in the region of £19k! For a 991 GT3 maybe £3k - £4k for the same??
I had a pretty hard driven 458 for 9 years. I had to replace the ccb discs and I had both gearbox and engine trouble which were fixed under warranty. After some fairly puckering waits for investigations to confirm cover. Just my experience, I'm sure others will report trouble free years of treating their 458s as track slags, but I'd say that the GT3 is a bit more bulletproof. If you intend to track it all the time consider swapping ccb with steels (I was looking at an ex trackday demo car once and they had effected this swap).
458 as a track car, no. Made of chocolate compared to your GT3. GT3 different level of track car. 458 is one of the great Ferraris but not a track car. My Speciale was better but still the GT3 next level. Someone mentioned above CCB option on 458, all Ferraris after 2008 have CCB as standard.
markh450 said:
My understanding is the engines and drivetrain are reliable, no clutch to worry about for example. However, as a first time Ferrari owner coming from 911's, whilst I was expecting higher parts prices, I wasn't quite prepared for the actual level of some items!
if you are looking at 458's with CCB's which I think we optional on the 458? (my 488 is fitted with CCB's as standard,) a full set of discs and pads is in the region of £19k! For a 991 GT3 maybe £3k - £4k for the same??
Assetti quote roughly the same cost for replacement surface transforms for both cars c£11k for 4 discs not pads.if you are looking at 458's with CCB's which I think we optional on the 458? (my 488 is fitted with CCB's as standard,) a full set of discs and pads is in the region of £19k! For a 991 GT3 maybe £3k - £4k for the same??
Thanks for your replies, it pretty much confirms what my initial thoughts were.
Ultimately, there won’t be many too many track days - just a lot of fast driving/abuse across my Somerset/Devons b roads and I don’t think it’s going to fair too well.
Whilst it’s always been a dream to get a Ferrari, I wonder whether as my sole fun car its doesn’t really work - knowing where and I how I like to drive them!
I just have been on AT and didn’t realise how cheap 981 GT4s are now! Maybe one of those for fun and a slightly cheaper Ferrari for trips to the seaside with the wife??
Regardless, thanks for the advice so far.
P.s I assume the 488 is very similar to the 458?
Ultimately, there won’t be many too many track days - just a lot of fast driving/abuse across my Somerset/Devons b roads and I don’t think it’s going to fair too well.
Whilst it’s always been a dream to get a Ferrari, I wonder whether as my sole fun car its doesn’t really work - knowing where and I how I like to drive them!
I just have been on AT and didn’t realise how cheap 981 GT4s are now! Maybe one of those for fun and a slightly cheaper Ferrari for trips to the seaside with the wife??
Regardless, thanks for the advice so far.
P.s I assume the 488 is very similar to the 458?
russy01 said:
Thanks for your replies, it pretty much confirms what my initial thoughts were.
Ultimately, there won’t be many too many track days - just a lot of fast driving/abuse across my Somerset/Devons b roads and I don’t think it’s going to fair too well.
Whilst it’s always been a dream to get a Ferrari, I wonder whether as my sole fun car its doesn’t really work - knowing where and I how I like to drive them!
I just have been on AT and didn’t realise how cheap 981 GT4s are now! Maybe one of those for fun and a slightly cheaper Ferrari for trips to the seaside with the wife??
Don't forget the 981 GT4 was a somewhat underpriced £65k car in 2015 and even now almost 10 years laterUltimately, there won’t be many too many track days - just a lot of fast driving/abuse across my Somerset/Devons b roads and I don’t think it’s going to fair too well.
Whilst it’s always been a dream to get a Ferrari, I wonder whether as my sole fun car its doesn’t really work - knowing where and I how I like to drive them!
I just have been on AT and didn’t realise how cheap 981 GT4s are now! Maybe one of those for fun and a slightly cheaper Ferrari for trips to the seaside with the wife??
bucket seat cars are still around list with CS cars early £70ks subject to mileage.
Having owned both the 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 from new the newer car is streets ahead of the older Carrera 2S engined 981 and not just because of its far better engine which means for road use at least it is almost as rapid and engaging as a GT3.
russy01 said:
Thanks for your replies, it pretty much confirms what my initial thoughts were.
Ultimately, there won’t be many too many track days - just a lot of fast driving/abuse across my Somerset/Devons b roads and I don’t think it’s going to fair too well.
Whilst it’s always been a dream to get a Ferrari, I wonder whether as my sole fun car its doesn’t really work - knowing where and I how I like to drive them!
I just have been on AT and didn’t realise how cheap 981 GT4s are now! Maybe one of those for fun and a slightly cheaper Ferrari for trips to the seaside with the wife??
Regardless, thanks for the advice so far.
P.s I assume the 488 is very similar to the 458?
I can't see the 458 or 488 being an issue for the type of driving you mention, albeit still more £ than the equivalent Porsche for maintenance. Without heavy track use the CCB's should last longer than 'Steel's'. You can also fit steel discs to the 458 if need be, 488 Challenges come with steel discs, but as far as I am aware there is no aftermarket steel disc for the GTB. Ultimately, there won’t be many too many track days - just a lot of fast driving/abuse across my Somerset/Devons b roads and I don’t think it’s going to fair too well.
Whilst it’s always been a dream to get a Ferrari, I wonder whether as my sole fun car its doesn’t really work - knowing where and I how I like to drive them!
I just have been on AT and didn’t realise how cheap 981 GT4s are now! Maybe one of those for fun and a slightly cheaper Ferrari for trips to the seaside with the wife??
Regardless, thanks for the advice so far.
P.s I assume the 488 is very similar to the 458?
Best (or worst!;)) advice is to have a go in one (if you haven't already). Lot of debate on the subject, but I started to look for a nice 458 and ended up with a 488, absolutely delighted with it, I had a day with a 488 challenge on track, but not tracked this yet.
I think for me, if I was considering regular trackdays I be more inclined to do as you say, get a nice 360 or 430 for the weekends, with an Exige or GT3 for the track.
Purely subjective, but for fast road driving and the odd trackday, 458 / 488 all day long!! Considering the performance of both, you just can't (sensibly) drive either quickly enough on the public roads to be wearing bits out any way near as fast as you would on track.
markh450 said:
I can't see the 458 or 488 being an issue for the type of driving you mention, albeit still more £ than the equivalent Porsche for maintenance. Without heavy track use the CCB's should last longer than 'Steel's'. You can also fit steel discs to the 458 if need be, 488 Challenges come with steel discs, but as far as I am aware there is no aftermarket steel disc for the GTB.
Best (or worst!;)) advice is to have a go in one (if you haven't already). Lot of debate on the subject, but I started to look for a nice 458 and ended up with a 488, absolutely delighted with it, I had a day with a 488 challenge on track, but not tracked this yet.
I think for me, if I was considering regular trackdays I be more inclined to do as you say, get a nice 360 or 430 for the weekends, with an Exige or GT3 for the track.
Purely subjective, but for fast road driving and the odd trackday, 458 / 488 all day long!! Considering the performance of both, you just can't (sensibly) drive either quickly enough on the public roads to be wearing bits out any way near as fast as you would on track.
So without going into all the details I’m in more of a quandary than you think! Best (or worst!;)) advice is to have a go in one (if you haven't already). Lot of debate on the subject, but I started to look for a nice 458 and ended up with a 488, absolutely delighted with it, I had a day with a 488 challenge on track, but not tracked this yet.
I think for me, if I was considering regular trackdays I be more inclined to do as you say, get a nice 360 or 430 for the weekends, with an Exige or GT3 for the track.
Purely subjective, but for fast road driving and the odd trackday, 458 / 488 all day long!! Considering the performance of both, you just can't (sensibly) drive either quickly enough on the public roads to be wearing bits out any way near as fast as you would on track.
I love a NA car, hence a couple S2000s, NA 911s etc - so the 458 was the obvious choice.
However, I do love speed and actually prefer the design of the 488! I have been a passenger in a 458, but never a 488 - so that needs to be ticked off too.
Then to top it all off I had a Porsche day (Silverstone) in the 992 Turbo S in Oct and whilst a bit boring - the performance was incredible and I could get the kids in the back!
Choices…
As an FYI, Girodisc do steel discs for the 488 and probably the 458,. Wouldn't be cheap shipping them from the US and paying excise duty, but still a whole lot less than CC replacements.
https://www.fabspeed.com/ferrari-488-girodisc-brak...
https://www.fabspeed.com/ferrari-488-girodisc-brak...
Just to make it harder, the 488 is a much better track car than the 458 IMHO.
For the road with the odd track day, I'd have the 458, despite my troubles. For the track with the odd weekend spin, I'd have the 488. Actually no I'd have the GT3.
I have never actually driven a GT3 on the road (apart from about 30 mins in less than ideal conditions) but liked it more than 458 on track.
For the road with the odd track day, I'd have the 458, despite my troubles. For the track with the odd weekend spin, I'd have the 488. Actually no I'd have the GT3.
I have never actually driven a GT3 on the road (apart from about 30 mins in less than ideal conditions) but liked it more than 458 on track.
GT3s especially 991.2 gen onwards make great usable road cars especially manuals imo. Need front lift though.
458 great too but their biggest problem is the width on smaller B roads.
For those interested Steve Sutcliffe pitched a Speciale against a 991.1 GT3 PDK and in his opinion there was very little between the cars despite their huge price disparity.
458 great too but their biggest problem is the width on smaller B roads.
For those interested Steve Sutcliffe pitched a Speciale against a 991.1 GT3 PDK and in his opinion there was very little between the cars despite their huge price disparity.
garystoybox said:
av185 said:
458 great too but their biggest problem is the width on smaller B roads.
Ah yes, an extra 3.9 inches makes all the difference in the bedroom but bugger all difference on a B-road.MDL111 said:
in fairness an extra c. 10cm in width between a wide car and a wider car can make quite a difference on narrow roads. The starting point is key here imo.
Makes a big difference. I daily a 2023 X5, which is a big car on the roads around here. Forever chucking it in the hedge or driving on a verge or the edge of the road. The 458 is 5cm wider again.
If you want a 458 or 488 then that's what you should go for 
Both will be absolutely fine with b road blasts, harder road use, and the odd track day- I wouldn't call that excessively hard driving. Get a good example, good history, etc and you won't have any issues. There are cars out there with power warranty as well- 2 years from Ferrari.
458 has been completely trouble free for me and has seen plenty of b road action all over, some longer trips and whilst always looked after with no expense spared serviced on time as it should be has been driven properly and in 3 years zero engine or gearbox issues so far!
The 4.5 litre V8 engine won engine of the year back to back not long after the car was released, and then again in 2014 and 2015, so 4 times in total, it is generally extremely reliable.
You may need to replace shock absorbers depending on how long you keep the car but thats wear & tear so be expected, especially driving on more rural roads.
CCB as standard (as mentioned already). Depending on amount of wear, can potentially be refurbished, discs should be fine in any case as long as not abused or used excessively on track and that is obviously the more expensive component.
I friend has had a 458 for much longer and has (nearly) double my miles with a lot more longer Euro trips in the car and also has not had any issue other than regular servicing and wear and tear as you would with any car.
No substantial experience of GT3's but again if you want a 458 then don't miss out on one because of width of the car or fear of issues..
Both will be absolutely fine with b road blasts, harder road use, and the odd track day- I wouldn't call that excessively hard driving. Get a good example, good history, etc and you won't have any issues. There are cars out there with power warranty as well- 2 years from Ferrari.
458 has been completely trouble free for me and has seen plenty of b road action all over, some longer trips and whilst always looked after with no expense spared serviced on time as it should be has been driven properly and in 3 years zero engine or gearbox issues so far!
The 4.5 litre V8 engine won engine of the year back to back not long after the car was released, and then again in 2014 and 2015, so 4 times in total, it is generally extremely reliable.
You may need to replace shock absorbers depending on how long you keep the car but thats wear & tear so be expected, especially driving on more rural roads.
CCB as standard (as mentioned already). Depending on amount of wear, can potentially be refurbished, discs should be fine in any case as long as not abused or used excessively on track and that is obviously the more expensive component.
I friend has had a 458 for much longer and has (nearly) double my miles with a lot more longer Euro trips in the car and also has not had any issue other than regular servicing and wear and tear as you would with any car.
No substantial experience of GT3's but again if you want a 458 then don't miss out on one because of width of the car or fear of issues..
I had a 991.1 GT3, a Speciale and then a 991.2 Touring.
All different cars but for your use case of b-road blasts they are VASTLY over-engineered anyways. In this country it's literally not possible to touch the limits of these cars, nor challenge their chassis or breaks. If you told me you lived in the Alps or close to the nurburgring I could understand.. but not in the UK.
That said, GT3 does feel rock solid aside from the engine issues of the 991.1. But if you find one with a replaced engine they can be great value.
The speciale (and I guess a vanilla 458) are on a different planet with regards to excitement and engagement though. One is a playful Italian with a supple chassis and friendly oversteer on demand. The other is a German less fun but very effective lap Time Machine.
I have to say I really enjoyed the Touring as the manual did give that engagement that makes all the difference on our UK roads to keep speeds a bit more sensible. But the ride is much firmer than the 458. Interior space is obviously much greater in the GT3 and generally it will be a more usable space with a more modern satnav etc etc.
But that feeling and drama of shutting the carbon panelled door in the 458, turn the key, wait for the checks and beeps to stop, press the red starter button... I think I will never find again in any other car. It's the car I will always regret selling.
All different cars but for your use case of b-road blasts they are VASTLY over-engineered anyways. In this country it's literally not possible to touch the limits of these cars, nor challenge their chassis or breaks. If you told me you lived in the Alps or close to the nurburgring I could understand.. but not in the UK.
That said, GT3 does feel rock solid aside from the engine issues of the 991.1. But if you find one with a replaced engine they can be great value.
The speciale (and I guess a vanilla 458) are on a different planet with regards to excitement and engagement though. One is a playful Italian with a supple chassis and friendly oversteer on demand. The other is a German less fun but very effective lap Time Machine.
I have to say I really enjoyed the Touring as the manual did give that engagement that makes all the difference on our UK roads to keep speeds a bit more sensible. But the ride is much firmer than the 458. Interior space is obviously much greater in the GT3 and generally it will be a more usable space with a more modern satnav etc etc.
But that feeling and drama of shutting the carbon panelled door in the 458, turn the key, wait for the checks and beeps to stop, press the red starter button... I think I will never find again in any other car. It's the car I will always regret selling.
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