Planning permission for driveway gates
Discussion
Before i contact the council which id rather not, does anyone understand what the actual rules are.
Planning website suggests:
Not adjacent to a highway and under 2m high doesn't need planning.
But what exactly is adjacent to a highway? i have read 5m away from highway and under 2m high is ok. I am sure i have also read 2m from highway.
I want to build brick pillars and gates just under 2m total and i am a good 5m from the road what do we think?
Planning website suggests:
Not adjacent to a highway and under 2m high doesn't need planning.
But what exactly is adjacent to a highway? i have read 5m away from highway and under 2m high is ok. I am sure i have also read 2m from highway.
I want to build brick pillars and gates just under 2m total and i am a good 5m from the road what do we think?
I’m pretty sure it falls under PD similar to what you have mentioned above.
To save on expense and so you have complete transparency, I would book a pre app with your local council. You should be able to produce some of your own drawings that would be sufficient for this service going by what you have said above. This would enable you to see if it either falls under PD or the probability of it being approved or not if you were to proceed with full planning if required.
To save on expense and so you have complete transparency, I would book a pre app with your local council. You should be able to produce some of your own drawings that would be sufficient for this service going by what you have said above. This would enable you to see if it either falls under PD or the probability of it being approved or not if you were to proceed with full planning if required.
It's not obvious to me how you will have gates that aren't adjacent to a highway. So the rules are clear - 1m unless you've got planning permissions.
There are house near where I live that chucked up 2m pillars and gates without planning permission.. Council made them reduce the height to 1m. The "stumps" that remain look utterly ridiculous, far too fat for their height. Best of all they're right by a roundabout, and some halfwit recently missed the roundabout and demolished one of the stumps. I'm watching with interest to see what happens next.
There are house near where I live that chucked up 2m pillars and gates without planning permission.. Council made them reduce the height to 1m. The "stumps" that remain look utterly ridiculous, far too fat for their height. Best of all they're right by a roundabout, and some halfwit recently missed the roundabout and demolished one of the stumps. I'm watching with interest to see what happens next.
Adjacent to the highway does not mean a set distance. It is a distinctly grey area of planning law. A good rule of thumb is that the proposed gates/wall/fence should be well outside any visibility splays and any current highways standards for the access, but that is not a given. In a famous appeal case, a gate, separated from the road by a pavement and then a wide grassed area with trees in, fronting large houses was deemed to be adjacent to the highway, even though it was probably 20 metres away!
roscopervis said:
A good rule of thumb is that the proposed gates/wall/fence should be well outside any visibility splays and any current highways standards for the access, but that is not a given.
Yup, you often see 2m electric gates set back two or three metres. The gates aren't right at the front boundary and any car waiting for the gates to open doesn't stick out onto the highway.m3jappa said:
Before i contact the council which id rather not, does anyone understand what the actual rules are.
Planning website suggests:
Not adjacent to a highway and under 2m high doesn't need planning.
But what exactly is adjacent to a highway? i have read 5m away from highway and under 2m high is ok. I am sure i have also read 2m from highway.
I want to build brick pillars and gates just under 2m total and i am a good 5m from the road what do we think?
Any precedents on the street? What is being replaced?Planning website suggests:
Not adjacent to a highway and under 2m high doesn't need planning.
But what exactly is adjacent to a highway? i have read 5m away from highway and under 2m high is ok. I am sure i have also read 2m from highway.
I want to build brick pillars and gates just under 2m total and i am a good 5m from the road what do we think?
'does anyone understand what the actual rules are' - the GPDO is the answer, but as you know, not straightforward; https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/sched...
Adjacent to the highway is max 1m high (unless it is a school) primarily for pedestrian/vehicular visibility and safety (but it doesn't state that)
'But what exactly is adjacent to a highway' - there is no definitive answer, Appeal decisions will state 'it is a matter of fact and degree', with each case being viewed on it's merits...
Options;
- if you think it falls under permitted development, then apply for a Lawful Development Certificate to give you the answer
- if you are unsure then you could go for a pre-app opinion/response, then you know if they agree it is PD, or disagree, and a planning application is required (or you revise the proposal to be PD compliant)
(bear in mind that PD doesn't give any restrictions on a 1m high fence and 'parking off the road/pavement before the gates', whereas a planning application is (most) likely to require 5m from the back of footpath)
Precedent doesn't hold much weight, as the LPA will 'judge each case on it's merits' (although I accept that there has to be consistency in the decision making process)
In terms of 'argument', if you had a 1m high wall that is then swept/curved back and increasing in height upto 2m high gate posts, then the reasoning for '1m adjacent to the highway' is for pedestrian/vehicular visibility and your proposal compliant with the GPDO, however if a planning officer thinks differently. then you have a refusal for your LDC and are left with an Appeal option...
Put this into perspective, with the Governments desire to speed up the process...timescales...
- pre-app - 8 weeks (varies depending on LPA)
- Appeal - 6-9months
So, a year with no guarantee of approval, just to put up a f*cking wall and gates and all because someone wont give you the answer to the question of how close is adjacent to the highway...
Adjacent to the highway is max 1m high (unless it is a school) primarily for pedestrian/vehicular visibility and safety (but it doesn't state that)
'But what exactly is adjacent to a highway' - there is no definitive answer, Appeal decisions will state 'it is a matter of fact and degree', with each case being viewed on it's merits...
Options;
- if you think it falls under permitted development, then apply for a Lawful Development Certificate to give you the answer
- if you are unsure then you could go for a pre-app opinion/response, then you know if they agree it is PD, or disagree, and a planning application is required (or you revise the proposal to be PD compliant)
(bear in mind that PD doesn't give any restrictions on a 1m high fence and 'parking off the road/pavement before the gates', whereas a planning application is (most) likely to require 5m from the back of footpath)
Precedent doesn't hold much weight, as the LPA will 'judge each case on it's merits' (although I accept that there has to be consistency in the decision making process)
In terms of 'argument', if you had a 1m high wall that is then swept/curved back and increasing in height upto 2m high gate posts, then the reasoning for '1m adjacent to the highway' is for pedestrian/vehicular visibility and your proposal compliant with the GPDO, however if a planning officer thinks differently. then you have a refusal for your LDC and are left with an Appeal option...
Put this into perspective, with the Governments desire to speed up the process...timescales...
- pre-app - 8 weeks (varies depending on LPA)
- Appeal - 6-9months
So, a year with no guarantee of approval, just to put up a f*cking wall and gates and all because someone wont give you the answer to the question of how close is adjacent to the highway...
The things is like everyone else who does the same i only want them to try and make the place a bit more secure and that i deter the utter scum who likes to makes others lives a misery by stealing your hard earned things.......
Im unsure what to do.
Do you go through the process and they say no and then thats that.
Or do you just do it and hope no one says anything.
There are quite a few houses nearby with similar set ups.
I dont want to build any walls, just 2 brick piers the gate and a fence with hedge in front.
Maybe i will try and call them and see if i can get anything out of them.
Im unsure what to do.
Do you go through the process and they say no and then thats that.
Or do you just do it and hope no one says anything.
There are quite a few houses nearby with similar set ups.
I dont want to build any walls, just 2 brick piers the gate and a fence with hedge in front.
Maybe i will try and call them and see if i can get anything out of them.
m3jappa said:
The things is like everyone else who does the same i only want them to try and make the place a bit more secure and that i deter the utter scum who likes to makes others lives a misery by stealing your hard earned things.......
Im unsure what to do.
Do you go through the process and they say no and then thats that.
Or do you just do it and hope no one says anything.
There are quite a few houses nearby with similar set ups.
I dont want to build any walls, just 2 brick piers the gate and a fence with hedge in front.
Maybe i will try and call them and see if i can get anything out of them.
I think your gut instinct of not asking is the right one. Especially if there are other properties on the road with similar. Unless you’re doing something very out of keeping or they receive a complaint the local planning office is unlikely to be very bothered, in my experience. If you ask, they have to be bothered.Im unsure what to do.
Do you go through the process and they say no and then thats that.
Or do you just do it and hope no one says anything.
There are quite a few houses nearby with similar set ups.
I dont want to build any walls, just 2 brick piers the gate and a fence with hedge in front.
Maybe i will try and call them and see if i can get anything out of them.
I could not just build it as I knew the neighbours would not like it ! We wanted gates as my girlfriend is very aware of security and I wanted to make her feel safe when I am away.
Don't bother the pre app advice ! I did get it but only as I wanted to see their reaction before putting in a panning application with likely neighbour objections. As always you get a maybe maybe not reply after many moths.
Ours is a private estate to forget the word adjacent the issue is had was is it a highway !
A private road is not a deciding factor but the ability and need of the public to pass and repass is. I did a pd application and it was declined. They quoted a Lo's oc irrelevant cases. I appealed ( that took over a year !) and lost. The answer was that a private road is still a highway. Errrr did you read the appeal I never suggest otherwise.
The house frankly looks better without so I dropped it.
Then you get to the word adjacent which as someone said above has equally wide interpretation. Simply I would say if you can easily seek it from the road it is adjacent. There is no x metres limit.
If you are replacing a similar structure or there are other similar houses nearby and what you are planning it not an eye sore then I would just build it and see if anyone complains.
If you get dobbed in firstly that willl take time.
The. They will tell you so apply for permission within x months. Then they will take 6 months to reply ( just as well they have and 8 week limit then ).
You then appeal. An appeal will take a year.
You loose the appeal. You get an enforcement order saying reduce to 1 m by x date.
So at this point you have had them for 2 years.anyway.
Design and build the piers in such a way you can simply knock a metre off them and fit lower gates.
Just my view having been through the mess that is planning many times now.
Don't bother the pre app advice ! I did get it but only as I wanted to see their reaction before putting in a panning application with likely neighbour objections. As always you get a maybe maybe not reply after many moths.
Ours is a private estate to forget the word adjacent the issue is had was is it a highway !
A private road is not a deciding factor but the ability and need of the public to pass and repass is. I did a pd application and it was declined. They quoted a Lo's oc irrelevant cases. I appealed ( that took over a year !) and lost. The answer was that a private road is still a highway. Errrr did you read the appeal I never suggest otherwise.
The house frankly looks better without so I dropped it.
Then you get to the word adjacent which as someone said above has equally wide interpretation. Simply I would say if you can easily seek it from the road it is adjacent. There is no x metres limit.
If you are replacing a similar structure or there are other similar houses nearby and what you are planning it not an eye sore then I would just build it and see if anyone complains.
If you get dobbed in firstly that willl take time.
The. They will tell you so apply for permission within x months. Then they will take 6 months to reply ( just as well they have and 8 week limit then ).
You then appeal. An appeal will take a year.
You loose the appeal. You get an enforcement order saying reduce to 1 m by x date.
So at this point you have had them for 2 years.anyway.
Design and build the piers in such a way you can simply knock a metre off them and fit lower gates.
Just my view having been through the mess that is planning many times now.
Jeremy-75qq8 said:
Design and build the piers in such a way you can simply knock a metre off them and fit lower gates.
I fully endorse that strategy. If you use steel gate posts instead of brick piers it's a piece of cake to shorten them and you don't risk ending up with "stubby" piers that look out of proportion. Better than spending money on a planning application right up front.Are your neighbours likely to complain? If you're on good terms with them, maybe casually mention you're putting up some gates - without going into detail. See what they say.
I have probably contravened planning regulations a couple of times - but as I didn't have any neighbours and was nowhere near a main road, it wasn't a problem.
I have probably contravened planning regulations a couple of times - but as I didn't have any neighbours and was nowhere near a main road, it wasn't a problem.
My immediate neighbours are no issue, its just any do gooders who might walk by.
I do find it unlikely to impossible that all these other houses have applied, maybe they have who knows.
But i do agree that building them with a view to adapting them later on might be best.
I plan 600mm pillars and a total height (raised in middle) of 1850 centre, so sides of gates will be 1600. piers would be around 1800 total i reckon.
If they had to be lowered 600 pillars will still look ok at a meter.
Timber gates as well. so they could be modded to make lower.
Gates mounted on a steel post at the back of piers so again could be cut down.
It wont be an eyesore at all, it will eventually look stunning (planning a nice hedge across the front).
Its just about 'feeling' safe, thats it really.
I do find it unlikely to impossible that all these other houses have applied, maybe they have who knows.
But i do agree that building them with a view to adapting them later on might be best.
I plan 600mm pillars and a total height (raised in middle) of 1850 centre, so sides of gates will be 1600. piers would be around 1800 total i reckon.
If they had to be lowered 600 pillars will still look ok at a meter.
Timber gates as well. so they could be modded to make lower.
Gates mounted on a steel post at the back of piers so again could be cut down.
It wont be an eyesore at all, it will eventually look stunning (planning a nice hedge across the front).
Its just about 'feeling' safe, thats it really.
m3jappa said:
My immediate neighbours are no issue, its just any do gooders who might walk by.
I do find it unlikely to impossible that all these other houses have applied, maybe they have who knows.
Could you knock on a few neighbours doors and ask them what they did?I do find it unlikely to impossible that all these other houses have applied, maybe they have who knows.
It is likely their reasoning either way may help convince you the best action to take. And also they might have views on who is good/if their installers encountered any issues etc
Craikeybaby said:
Can't you check your local planning portal for historic applications?
I did think that but can imagine trawling through might be some job. I could ask some but as none of the houses are close neighbours they might think who the hell is this asking about their gates planning
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