Generator advice
Discussion
Hello all.
Recently moved up to North Yorks into a farmhouse out in the sticks. 3 of us work from home throughout the week and we've already had a couple of powercuts so looking for a backup option that doesn't cost the earth and would be able to.power some basic stuff like a starlink, Wi-Fi, led lighting and monitors etc. for a few hours at a time.
Would one of the numerous <£500 3-5000W petrol inverter generators do the job or am I on completely the wrong track?
Recently moved up to North Yorks into a farmhouse out in the sticks. 3 of us work from home throughout the week and we've already had a couple of powercuts so looking for a backup option that doesn't cost the earth and would be able to.power some basic stuff like a starlink, Wi-Fi, led lighting and monitors etc. for a few hours at a time.
Would one of the numerous <£500 3-5000W petrol inverter generators do the job or am I on completely the wrong track?
My experience of small, “cheap” gennies is that they’re unreliable, hard to get parts for, noisy and can frustrate with loads approaching anywhere their design duty especially when used for longer periods.
We regularly are without power for periods ranging from a few hours to several days (record is 8 days). We ended up buying a Pramac diesel thing. 8.8kva / 8kw. Was about £3500 but it runs two houses (little 2 bed farmhouse and a 6 bedroom barn) and two well pumps, 4 freezers, 2 Oil central heating pumps.
Now we’re not boiling kettles and using tumble driers and such like but it copes with normal usage just fine.
We don’t have it in an auto switch but do have externals sockets on both houses and isolation switches inside.
It’s quiet, economical and it just works without complaint. I start it every couple of months, check the oil etc.
ETA: we previously tried a Clarke petrol generator around £300 that was unreliable piece of s
t and then a Honda one at around £700 that was not much better. The Pramac has been utterly dependable and used far more than the other two combined. It’s awesome.
We regularly are without power for periods ranging from a few hours to several days (record is 8 days). We ended up buying a Pramac diesel thing. 8.8kva / 8kw. Was about £3500 but it runs two houses (little 2 bed farmhouse and a 6 bedroom barn) and two well pumps, 4 freezers, 2 Oil central heating pumps.
Now we’re not boiling kettles and using tumble driers and such like but it copes with normal usage just fine.
We don’t have it in an auto switch but do have externals sockets on both houses and isolation switches inside.
It’s quiet, economical and it just works without complaint. I start it every couple of months, check the oil etc.
ETA: we previously tried a Clarke petrol generator around £300 that was unreliable piece of s
t and then a Honda one at around £700 that was not much better. The Pramac has been utterly dependable and used far more than the other two combined. It’s awesome. Edited by Lefty on Tuesday 28th January 21:59
Thanks for the response. I get the feeling your needs are rather more expansive than what I'm looking for but appreciate the advice.
Been looking at a Hyundai model as below
https://hyundaipowerequipment.co.uk/hyundai-hy3800...
As I say it would be to keep some bare essential low draw electrical bits and led bulb lamps running for a few hours if necessary rather than keeping the entire house running almost as usual. We've got wood burning stoves for heating and water and Calor for the kitchen hob so relatively self sufficient without electricity for a period there.
Been looking at a Hyundai model as below
https://hyundaipowerequipment.co.uk/hyundai-hy3800...
As I say it would be to keep some bare essential low draw electrical bits and led bulb lamps running for a few hours if necessary rather than keeping the entire house running almost as usual. We've got wood burning stoves for heating and water and Calor for the kitchen hob so relatively self sufficient without electricity for a period there.
Also recently discussed here > https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I have a Kipor 2600 suitcase generator that I bought 15 years ago. It spent its first 3 years on a boat so took some salt water abuse. I’ve only changed the oil twice (yes, I know) but it just keeps going. It manages a 1kW base load no problem at home (fridge, 2x freezers, internet, computers, charging stuff, light, TV, boiler controls, hifi etc) and has run for up to 5 days continuously after storm damage. I think the petrol tank is about 5L and it uses about 2-3 fills on a long day. It ran for two days last week after the storm up here. We’ve got a proper isolator switch and a socket by the back door to plug it in. Something like that would suit your needs by the sound of it. The EE mast on the hill next to us keeps going when the power is off so I guess it has a generator, so when we plug the Kipor in and fire it up it means work and home life can carry on just fine (we cook with gas).
I will service it this summer!
It’s sitting under cover by the back door now waiting for the next outage.
I will service it this summer!
It’s sitting under cover by the back door now waiting for the next outage.
Edited by w1bbles on Tuesday 28th January 22:51
SWoll said:
Thanks for the response. I get the feeling your needs are rather more expansive than what I'm looking for but appreciate the advice.
Been looking at a Hyundai model as below
https://hyundaipowerequipment.co.uk/hyundai-hy3800...
As I say it would be to keep some bare essential low draw electrical bits and led bulb lamps running for a few hours if necessary rather than keeping the entire house running almost as usual. We've got wood burning stoves for heating and water and Calor for the kitchen hob so relatively self sufficient without electricity for a period there.
These open frame ones are as a rule noisy buggers. Been looking at a Hyundai model as below
https://hyundaipowerequipment.co.uk/hyundai-hy3800...
As I say it would be to keep some bare essential low draw electrical bits and led bulb lamps running for a few hours if necessary rather than keeping the entire house running almost as usual. We've got wood burning stoves for heating and water and Calor for the kitchen hob so relatively self sufficient without electricity for a period there.
There are two of us WFH and we have had a few short power cuts which as you say take out the wifi etc and are quite frustrating. I have gone for a UPS (uninterrupted power supply) to power the router, this will run it for 30-40 mins and will provide enough time to cover a short cut in power and or give me time to fire up the generator. I went with one of these. Yep it's small and only a max of 1200w but it is more than enough to keep the central heating running, lights on and the wifi / work IT stuff going which is all I was after and I have been impressed with how quiet and reliable it has been. I do tend to run it for a bit every month. Really very impressed with it.
You will need to fit a proper change over switch to ensure you are not feeding power back into the rest of the grid.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Portable-Suitcase...
Many years ago I had the same problem - my final solution was as follows:-
Honda Generator 2.2kW with long running tank (similar to the Hyundai in this thread) - this was located in a shed/outbuilding
I then ran two armoured cables from the house to the shed, the first cable gave the shed power in normal conditions, the second went to a external plug mounted on the outside of the shed.
In the house by the consumer board I had a large 100A switch installed, this allowed the house to be switched between the grid and the generator as a source - this is important as it stops you providing back into the grid where an engineer could be working on the line!!
So when we had a power cut (sometimes they would last for 3-4 days!), I would move the 100A switch to the generator, drag the generator out the shed and connect to the external plug - this would then power the house.
I also used a couple of UPS units with power conditioning, to smooth out the typical surgy generator signal (which electronics esp. PC power supplies do not like)
During generator periods we did not use kettle/washing machine/tumble drier - the house had an oil fired range which gave us hot water/heating and could be used for cooking/boiling kettles/etc.
Honda Generator 2.2kW with long running tank (similar to the Hyundai in this thread) - this was located in a shed/outbuilding
I then ran two armoured cables from the house to the shed, the first cable gave the shed power in normal conditions, the second went to a external plug mounted on the outside of the shed.
In the house by the consumer board I had a large 100A switch installed, this allowed the house to be switched between the grid and the generator as a source - this is important as it stops you providing back into the grid where an engineer could be working on the line!!
So when we had a power cut (sometimes they would last for 3-4 days!), I would move the 100A switch to the generator, drag the generator out the shed and connect to the external plug - this would then power the house.
I also used a couple of UPS units with power conditioning, to smooth out the typical surgy generator signal (which electronics esp. PC power supplies do not like)
During generator periods we did not use kettle/washing machine/tumble drier - the house had an oil fired range which gave us hot water/heating and could be used for cooking/boiling kettles/etc.
Edited by DavidY on Wednesday 29th January 07:41
We just managed to rent an open frame unit on Friday morning after the power went out due to the storm. At 2.2kW it was just about enough to keep the lights, boiler pump and internet going with the odd bit of low powered microwaving on top. Whilst I don't doubt your house is significantly better sound insulated than our static caravan, by christ it was loud! For the scenario you're describing I would look at one of Hyundai's remote start suitcase style offerings, number of folk use them at the racing and they're far quieter.
Given this is our third powercut in 2 months, I'm now minded to install a generator hook up for the house in addition to battery back up.
Given this is our third powercut in 2 months, I'm now minded to install a generator hook up for the house in addition to battery back up.
MDT said:
These open frame ones are as a rule noisy buggers.
There are two of us WFH and we have had a few short power cuts which as you say take out the wifi etc and are quite frustrating. I have gone for a UPS (uninterrupted power supply) to power the router, this will run it for 30-40 mins and will provide enough time to cover a short cut in power and or give me time to fire up the generator. I went with one of these. Yep it's small and only a max of 1200w but it is more than enough to keep the central heating running, lights on and the wifi / work IT stuff going which is all I was after and I have been impressed with how quiet and reliable it has been. I do tend to run it for a bit every month. Really very impressed with it.
You will need to fit a proper change over switch to ensure you are not feeding power back into the rest of the grid.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Portable-Suitcase...
Plan would be to completely isolate it from the rest of the electrics and manually switch what's needed across to it in the event of an extended outage. Not worried about heating/lighting for the entire house as can fall back to wood fired stoves and rechargeable led lamps. We also shop regularly and eat fresh so not much in fridges/freezers to spoil , showers are gravity fed from a well insulated storage, cooking hob is Calor has etc.There are two of us WFH and we have had a few short power cuts which as you say take out the wifi etc and are quite frustrating. I have gone for a UPS (uninterrupted power supply) to power the router, this will run it for 30-40 mins and will provide enough time to cover a short cut in power and or give me time to fire up the generator. I went with one of these. Yep it's small and only a max of 1200w but it is more than enough to keep the central heating running, lights on and the wifi / work IT stuff going which is all I was after and I have been impressed with how quiet and reliable it has been. I do tend to run it for a bit every month. Really very impressed with it.
You will need to fit a proper change over switch to ensure you are not feeding power back into the rest of the grid.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Portable-Suitcase...
Literally a 6 gang connected to it would be enough to run the essential stuff we need. Started off looking at UPS but limited run time for the cost was not appropriate in my mind.
Based on some of the advice above (suitcase style, electric start) I assume this would be a better option. Also offers consistent power for the kind of sensitive stuff we'd be connecting and assume 2200W is more than enough for Wifi, TV, laptop, monitor etc?
https://hyundaipowerequipment.co.uk/hyundai-2200w-...
Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 29th January 09:23
SWoll said:
Started off looking at UPS but limited run time for the cost was not appropriate in my mind.
The UPS I have is just a small £80 job and it's only there to keep the wifi up and running for 30-40 mins. if you are running a starlink then I would look at getting a UPS for to keep this going till you pop out and get the gen set up and started. This would maintain your WFH set up. For running just basic IT kit (wifi, single router, laptops) etc, I have a good-quality 12v inverter which connects to the cars/tractor and run an extension lead. Would run fine for days I expect. Less capable than a generator, but simple.
We've never had a multi-day outage though, the power company are very good at bringing in big diesel generators if that's on the cards. You may be more exposed in rural dales to large-scale outages.
We've never had a multi-day outage though, the power company are very good at bringing in big diesel generators if that's on the cards. You may be more exposed in rural dales to large-scale outages.
MDT said:
The UPS I have is just a small £80 job and it's only there to keep the wifi up and running for 30-40 mins. if you are running a starlink then I would look at getting a UPS for to keep this going till you pop out and get the gen set up and started. This would maintain your WFH set up.
Not too worried about it being down for a short period before getting something less up and running as we get OK 4G service and can laptop to phone hotspot in an emergency.biggiles said:
For running just basic IT kit (wifi, single router, laptops) etc, I have a good-quality 12v inverter which connects to the cars/tractor and run an extension lead. Would run fine for days I expect. Less capable than a generator, but simple.
We've never had a multi-day outage though, the power company are very good at bringing in big diesel generators if that's on the cards. You may be more exposed in rural dales to large-scale outages.
We have an EV so would be a bit wary of doing the above. Annoying to have 70kWh of battery on the drive and no ability to do V2L, but hey ho, maybe should have got a Kia or Hyundai..We've never had a multi-day outage though, the power company are very good at bringing in big diesel generators if that's on the cards. You may be more exposed in rural dales to large-scale outages.
Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 29th January 09:59
If I was spending money on prepping for the storms we've just had, I'd be looking at a house battery and some kind of generator.
Our average daily electricity bill is about 10kWh.
Enough battery to survive for a day or two is affordable, I happen to have a crude old generator already.
So I'd be looking at Victron chargers and inverters and all that.
I know lots of people with this kind of gear on boats.
Running from a battery and charging the battery when it's low is far more efficient and convenient than running a generator 24hrs.
If you're looking to get through a long outage, you need to start thinking that it might not be easy to nip down the road and get more petrol.
Maybe your next storm will be a snow event?
If you merge the 'prepper' side of things with a bit of tariff shifting and maybe a solar panel or two, the economics might look better than either thing on its own?
I did wonder whether my generator might need dusting off this past week, but we had no problems.
I have a small sailing cruiser, so I have a lot of 12V stuff and we're fairly sorted with being off grid for phone chargers etc etc.
It's a balance of what you are planning to live through, to what standard, at what cost.
vs the fact that our grid is pretty reliable in most of the UK.
Our average daily electricity bill is about 10kWh.
Enough battery to survive for a day or two is affordable, I happen to have a crude old generator already.
So I'd be looking at Victron chargers and inverters and all that.
I know lots of people with this kind of gear on boats.
Running from a battery and charging the battery when it's low is far more efficient and convenient than running a generator 24hrs.
If you're looking to get through a long outage, you need to start thinking that it might not be easy to nip down the road and get more petrol.
Maybe your next storm will be a snow event?
If you merge the 'prepper' side of things with a bit of tariff shifting and maybe a solar panel or two, the economics might look better than either thing on its own?
I did wonder whether my generator might need dusting off this past week, but we had no problems.
I have a small sailing cruiser, so I have a lot of 12V stuff and we're fairly sorted with being off grid for phone chargers etc etc.
It's a balance of what you are planning to live through, to what standard, at what cost.
vs the fact that our grid is pretty reliable in most of the UK.
Appreciate what you are saying, but not looking to over complicate things or spend a huge amount on a solution at this point.
The vast majority of our power usage is far from essential when it comes down to it and keeping a good supply of wood for the stoves to heat the house, Calor gas for the hob to cook and heat water and a couple of jerry cans of petrol for a generator is about as much preparation as would hopefully be needed in the UK with our climate as you say?
Just doing some quick maths and would put our essential load at around 500W maximum or 25% of the generators capacity. Based on that the 6L tank should last 10+ hours and a single 20L Jerry can would extend its use to 3 or 4 days if only used 7am to 11pm?
The vast majority of our power usage is far from essential when it comes down to it and keeping a good supply of wood for the stoves to heat the house, Calor gas for the hob to cook and heat water and a couple of jerry cans of petrol for a generator is about as much preparation as would hopefully be needed in the UK with our climate as you say?
Just doing some quick maths and would put our essential load at around 500W maximum or 25% of the generators capacity. Based on that the 6L tank should last 10+ hours and a single 20L Jerry can would extend its use to 3 or 4 days if only used 7am to 11pm?
Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 29th January 10:53
I've got an SDMO 6kw petrol generator. Honda engine. Had it some time now. It lives in one of the sheds and is wired to a switch at the mains fuse board so I can switch between the two. Rightly or wrongly I went for a petrol one. My thinking being that trying to start a diesel engine that hasn't run for months and it's minus ten or less outside might be problematic. It runs everything expect for the 10.8kw electric showers. It will drink a 20 litre jerry can in about 15 hours. Depends how much load you put on it. It's been a godsend.
Indeed. The Hyundai I linked to above suggests 7.5hrs running time pulling 1100W from its 6L tank, so at 550W a full day should be achievable as not everything will be a constant draw of course
Obviously anything with a heating element would be a no no, although the odd 5 minute use of an 800W microwave should be fine if necessary.
Obviously anything with a heating element would be a no no, although the odd 5 minute use of an 800W microwave should be fine if necessary.
I have this Hyundai one. It was surprisingly cheap. It's also surprisingly noisy. Ignore the "Silent" sticker on the casing!
You say you only need to it to run basics during an outage but actually having enough oomph to run your central heating pump, microwave, boil a kettle etc is surely never a bad thing in an extended outage.
I had an electrician in to fit a manual changeover switch and make up 100m of cabling (the generator is in an outhouse).
You say you only need to it to run basics during an outage but actually having enough oomph to run your central heating pump, microwave, boil a kettle etc is surely never a bad thing in an extended outage.
I had an electrician in to fit a manual changeover switch and make up 100m of cabling (the generator is in an outhouse).
Diesel genny, smalll local computer UPS box on a plug for our IT to keep it juiced up between DNO cut and genny online, ideally a transfer switch panel rather than a DIy set of switched to change between city & genny power
UPS;
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/650va-powercool-up...
transfer switch;
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CGCS1004P.ht...
if you wanted to go really posh with an electric start genny and run the starter contactor cable to a remote start transfer switch so a mere button press was required while inside the house (assume bad weather when power cuts!!!)
UPS;
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/650va-powercool-up...
transfer switch;
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CGCS1004P.ht...
if you wanted to go really posh with an electric start genny and run the starter contactor cable to a remote start transfer switch so a mere button press was required while inside the house (assume bad weather when power cuts!!!)
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