They will need my vote after all
Discussion
Tory rule change bid is defeated
Mr Howard is expected to step down in October
The attempt to change the rules on who chooses the next Conservative leader has been defeated in a vote of MPs and senior party activists.
A plan to give the choice to MPs rather than Tory members failed to win the two-thirds majority needed for change.
It means the leadership contest will be held under the current rules, with MPs choosing two candidates to go to a vote of all Conservative members.
That could be prolong the contest until Christmas or beyond.
Tuesday's vote will come as a blow to current leader Michael Howard who had backed a change in the rules
Mr Howard is expected to step down in October
The attempt to change the rules on who chooses the next Conservative leader has been defeated in a vote of MPs and senior party activists.
A plan to give the choice to MPs rather than Tory members failed to win the two-thirds majority needed for change.
It means the leadership contest will be held under the current rules, with MPs choosing two candidates to go to a vote of all Conservative members.
That could be prolong the contest until Christmas or beyond.
Tuesday's vote will come as a blow to current leader Michael Howard who had backed a change in the rules
esselte said:
Blimey IDS happened last time
Here we go, another "blue rinse" selection
Less of the blue rinse you
I think it is a good thing the proposal was defeated, we, the membership of the Consevative party, provide much of the funding and ground work during an election campaign, and in return the MP's were proposing we should have no say on who the leader should be.
Maybe the current system is not ideal either, I think the best solution would be some form of electoral college, with the membership holding 1/3 to 1/2 of the votes.
unrepentant said:
It's Davis then. The members will never go for Clarke. We'd better settle in for 8 more years of Labour.
I think it was Davis anyway, whether the members had the vote or not.
Give the man a chance to prove himself don't write him off because the usual suspects in the media are calling him a Neo-Nazi.
JagLover said:
Give the man a chance to prove himself don't write him off because the usual suspects in the media are calling him a Neo-Nazi.
Quite right they called Prince Harry one and all he was doing was wearing the uniform
On a serious note though I must say Davis would be my choice.
timmy30 said:
Give the man a chance to prove himself don't write him off because the usual suspects in the media are calling him a Neo-Nazi.
Quite right they called Prince Harry one and all he was doing was wearing the uniform
On a serious note though I must say Davis would be my choice.
Arghhhh we're all doomed I tell ye!
MikeyT said:
Michael Foot up against the Tories at the mo and he'd get in
oi - don't knock footy - he's our chairman doncha know (PAFC)
It would appear that the tories are now doomed entirely. With an average age of party members in '96 of 62 years, and 50% of those over 65 at that point, I'm suprised there is anyone actually left to vote.
When the old codgers do it's highly debatable that their choice will represent the population at large in any realistic fashion. As a result the next leader is likely NOT to appeal to the much younger generation of voters required to get the tories into power.
Just an observation. And if anyone has any more recent stats on the age breakdown of tory party members I'd be fascinated to know....
MikeyT said:
As if it makes any difference ... you could have Michael Foot up against the Tories at the mo and he'd get in ... the underlying causes of the failure of the Tory party in the last ten years have as much to do with the MPs on their own front bench as on the opposite one ...
Its the economy that really decides how people vote. Things are on the turn now and the extent of all Browns tax 'n' waste policies and buy now pay later PFI's will become apparent in the next few years.
The one thing keeping the economy moving is/was government spending and with tax revenues and growth both well below forecasts, the sums no longer add up.
The ironic thing is that Brown is the only one who thinks things are ok !!
Hardly a day goes by now without an announcement of redundancies, planned redundancies or large organisations going into administration.
One needs to seek a realistic assessment of our economic situation and I for one feel that the IMF, World Bank and all City guru's have a better grasp of reality than Brown.
Great, so the moronic old gits who make up a large proportion of the constituency party membership will again vote for the one who seems best to fit their Daily Mail-informed prejudices, i.e. David Davies. The Tories will at the next election once again fail to understand that appealing only to those who will always vote for them or whatever UKIP-type party is making a splash at the time is not going to win them the election.
While Labour still appealed only to traditional Labour voters and the communist, trotskyite types who wer pragmatic enough not to vote for the SWP or the COmmunsit Party it was never going to win. BY extending its appeal to the middle classes (through utter mendacity), it won three times.
While Labour still appealed only to traditional Labour voters and the communist, trotskyite types who wer pragmatic enough not to vote for the SWP or the COmmunsit Party it was never going to win. BY extending its appeal to the middle classes (through utter mendacity), it won three times.
Good point
The Tories will win by campaigning on the centreground of Britsih poiltics, but also by offering an alternative to Labour.
I am not sure Clarke is the man for the job, mostly because he seems to have no ideas for the future direction of government.
If however Davis adopts and develops many of the new policies the Tory party have been proposing, ie Localism and Choice in public services, then he will be offering a genuine alternative to Labour.
The Tories will win by campaigning on the centreground of Britsih poiltics, but also by offering an alternative to Labour.
I am not sure Clarke is the man for the job, mostly because he seems to have no ideas for the future direction of government.
If however Davis adopts and develops many of the new policies the Tory party have been proposing, ie Localism and Choice in public services, then he will be offering a genuine alternative to Labour.
Zod said:
BY extending its appeal to the middle classes (through utter mendacity), it won three times.
Good old British middle classes, well educated in the bookish sense, but lacking much in the way of cunning/ cynicism, making them some of the most gullible people on the planet IMO, apart of course for much of the US populace ( which probably accounts for the success Labout have enjoyed by copying Democrat campaigning methods )
Zod said:
the communist, trotskyite types who wer pragmatic enough not to vote for the SWP or the COmmunsit Party it was never going to win.
The best ally the Tories ever had was the lack of a communist party. With a communist party the majority of extreemists in the labour party would ahve had a natural home to live. All Tony Blair did was clean up by chucking out the militant left - and hey presto 3 terms.
The tories need to learn from this - and they have the UKIP/Veritas/BNP as natural homes for the outcasts. They just lack a leader capable and popular enough to do the work required....
>> Edited by mr_tony on Tuesday 27th September 17:13
mr_tony said:
The tories need to learn from this - and they have the UKIP/Veritas/BNP as natural homes for the outcasts. They jsut lack a leader capable and popular enough to do the work required....
The UKIP are already costing the Tories a number of seats without adding to their number.
and what 'extreme' views do you wish to expunge from the Tory party. The belief that we should retain national sovereignty wherever possible?, that there should be limits on immigration?, that taxes should be as low as possible?
It really doesn't matter. They will never organise themselves sufficiently to win the next election, so they may as well all quit and practice gardening.
Had Howard stayed in and kept plugging away, he might have had a chance next time - but now, back to zero again. Labour is stumbling about like Laurel and Hardy trying to put up wallpaper and they still get voted in. Incredible.
Had Howard stayed in and kept plugging away, he might have had a chance next time - but now, back to zero again. Labour is stumbling about like Laurel and Hardy trying to put up wallpaper and they still get voted in. Incredible.
JagLover said:
It's Davis then. The members will never go for Clarke. We'd better settle in for 8 more years of Labour.
I think it was Davis anyway, whether the members had the vote or not.
Give the man a chance to prove himself don't write him off because the usual suspects in the media are calling him a Neo-Nazi.
Rubbish, I don't think Davis had a prayer, amongst his contempories, as he is not particularly clever, and is too right wing, to claw back votes from the centre ground.
I agree with unrepentant, the blue rinse morons will then choose another dud candidate and we can look forward to another few terms of Labour, before the Tories wake up and notice that the shotgun has been pointed at their own foot.
simpo two said:
It really doesn't matter. They will never organise themselves sufficiently to win the next election, so they may as well all quit and practice gardening.
Had Howard stayed in and kept plugging away, he might have had a chance next time - but now, back to zero again. Labour is stumbling about like Laurel and Hardy trying to put up wallpaper and they still get voted in. Incredible.
968 said:
I agree with unrepentant, the blue rinse morons will then choose another dud candidate and we can look forward to another few terms of Labour, before the Tories wake up and notice that the shotgun has been pointed at their own foot.
The membership of the Conservative party seem to getting allot of stick on this thread. Remember that the only time they were consulted they were presented with two very flawed candidates by their MP's. A choice between the Pro-European man of the past Clarke and the dull non-entity IDS.
Perhaps they chose the wrong candidate, but they did not have much to choose between!!
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