991 GTS

[Stephen-733s2]

I’ve had quickish cars before, last one being an F82 M4 Competition which I sold a couple of years ago.

Looking to get something as special as I can for around 55-60k. Both work from home and have another car for kids and dogs duties. So this is just something to make me go wow when I see and drive it.

Test drove a Gen 1.5 R8 V10 S Tronic last weekend. Looks wise for wow factor it was great. Sound was amazing. Ride and handling more than fine for me. Downsides, kick down was a bit slow, even in sports mode, but the main thing was the seat. I felt like I was sitting on the car rather than in it. Which I hate. I like to sit low down as I’m 6”3’. Possibly could be fixed by test driving a V10 Plus with the buckets. As look like they sit lower.

The other car I’m considering (and more than happy with any other suggestions please) is the 991 GTS. Looks like it would be a .1 as the .2 are out of my budget. My only concern with this is I do like straight line speed. And I’m worried it would be a bit of a let down after the M4 as looks no faster in a straight line. I know this isn’t the be all and end all, but it’s one of the factors for me.

Has anyone driven both an F82 M4 Comp and a 991.1 GTS PDK and can comment, please? Is it any faster or much the same?

The .2 looks a fair leap on. So it may well be I just have to wait longer and save more.

I’ve got a test drive booked in for a 991.1 GTS this weekend. But anyone else’s experiences would be great to hear about.

[Nuttcase]

Stephen-733s2 said:

I’ve had quickish cars before, last one being an F82 M4 Competition which I sold a couple of years ago.

Looking to get something as special as I can for around 55-60k. Both work from home and have another car for kids and dogs duties. So this is just something to make me go wow when I see and drive it.

Test drove a Gen 1.5 R8 V10 S Tronic last weekend. Looks wise for wow factor it was great. Sound was amazing. Ride and handling more than fine for me. Downsides, kick down was a bit slow, even in sports mode, but the main thing was the seat. I felt like I was sitting on the car rather than in it. Which I hate. I like to sit low down as I’m 6”3’. Possibly could be fixed by test driving a V10 Plus with the buckets. As look like they sit lower.

The other car I’m considering (and more than happy with any other suggestions please) is the 991 GTS. Looks like it would be a .1 as the .2 are out of my budget. My only concern with this is I do like straight line speed. And I’m worried it would be a bit of a let down after the M4 as looks no faster in a straight line. I know this isn’t the be all and end all, but it’s one of the factors for me.

Has anyone driven both an F82 M4 Comp and a 991.1 GTS PDK and can comment, please? Is it any faster or much the same?

The .2 looks a fair leap on. So it may well be I just have to wait longer and save more.

I’ve got a test drive booked in for a 991.1 GTS this weekend. But anyone else’s experiences would be great to hear about.

I've driven both but 3+ years apart, so hard to imagine how they would compare back to back. You'll probably miss some low down torque on the 991.1 GTS as it's naturally aspirated and you won't experience the same acceleration if you short shift it through the gears like you might do on the M4. You will need to rev it out a bit more, but that, in my opinion is all part of the 3.8 N/A experience. The 991.2 GTS is probably more comparable to an M4 from a power and torque curve perspective, but still a very different platform. Between the 991.2 (I think I drove an S) and the M4 comp, I found the 911 hooked up better in damp conditions; found the M4 would step out much easier under acceleration even in a straight line. Would be good to hear your observations from the test drive.

I currently own a gen2 R8 and, at 6'4", have exact same experience on seat position. I don't find it uncomfortable but just frustrating that Audi couldn't have done a better job of accommodating tall drivers; there is plenty room in the foot well - they should have placed the pedals further back. I don't think you'll find the buckets much better overall. They may be marginally lower but you can't adjust the front and back / seat base angle independently so at 6.3"+ you'll probably find all the weight is on you bottom and you thighs are slightly off the seat base. Cracking car though, I've had mine for nearly 8 years from new. But it's time to move, and will be sold shortly.

[Stephen-733s2]

Nuttcase said:

I've driven both but 3+ years apart, so hard to imagine how they would compare back to back. You'll probably miss some low down torque on the 991.1 GTS as it's naturally aspirated and you won't experience the same acceleration if you short shift it through the gears like you might do on the M4. You will need to rev it out a bit more, but that, in my opinion is all part of the 3.8 N/A experience. The 991.2 GTS is probably more comparable to an M4 from a power and torque curve perspective, but still a very different platform. Between the 991.2 (I think I drove an S) and the M4 comp, I found the 911 hooked up better in damp conditions; found the M4 would step out much easier under acceleration even in a straight line. Would be good to hear your observations from the test drive.

I currently own a gen2 R8 and, at 6'4", have exact same experience on seat position. I don't find it uncomfortable but just frustrating that Audi couldn't have done a better job of accommodating tall drivers; there is plenty room in the foot well - they should have placed the pedals further back. I don't think you'll find the buckets much better overall. They may be marginally lower but you can't adjust the front and back / seat base angle independently so at 6.3"+ you'll probably find all the weight is on you bottom and you thighs are slightly off the seat base. Cracking car though, I've had mine for nearly 8 years from new. But it's time to move, and will be sold shortly.

Thanks very much for the info. Would you say the M4 was the same sort of speed or quicker/slower than the 991.1, please?

Also, if you had the choice of 991.1 GTS or 991.2 S, which would you opt for please? It sounds like you drove both I think?

[mikeh501]

I’d go 3.8 gts all day long over the later 3.0 just on noise tbh. Owned one for 5 years and still miss it. As above you need to be on it to keep up with the later car but the engine is more rewarding. Also, the 3.8mhas proved to be pretty reliable, not so much the 3.0 cars

[Stephen-733s2]

mikeh501 said:

I’d go 3.8 gts all day long over the later 3.0 just on noise tbh. Owned one for 5 years and still miss it. As above you need to be on it to keep up with the later car but the engine is more rewarding. Also, the 3.8mhas proved to be pretty reliable, not so much the 3.0 cars

Thanks Mike.

Did you find it quick enough?

[Nuttcase]

If you're purely asking about acceleration, your best bet might be some of the performance data website like 0-60 times and fastestlaps. I really couldn't say as drives were too far apart in time and very different in nature. I borrowed local OPC demo GTS - lovely thing in Carmine red, made a great noise and I drove it on good B roads I know for half a day. I left with a very good impression but thought it was expensive new (2% discount off list from memory) compared with the R8 where you could easily get 10% off.

I drove the M4 as part of a BMW M sport driving experience event here in N.Ireland. Cars were brought over from England by BMW UK and you drive around a fixed road route with ~6 others, maybe 40 miles and change car every 10 minutes. It wasn't raining but the roads were damp and I struggled a bit with the turbo-charged power delivery. But then I experience the same last week in a new Carrera 2 GTS, so it's probably me and not the car.

I drove 6 or 7 Porsches at a porsche experience day at a local short track at Nutt's Corner. As with BMW, they bring them over from GB, then run 2 or 4 half day sessions. It was ~2015 coincided with the 991.2 launch. I drove a 981 GTS (good fun but lacking in torque) C4S, C2S, Turbo S, Cayenne something with a big **** off petrol engine and I think a Panamera, not sure about that. The 991.2 didn't win me over like the .1 GTS did, I found it very accomplished but a bit bland. More torque than the .1 but less noise. The biggest surprise of the day was the Cayenne - for the size of the thing it was a flying machine and cornered so well. I think it must have had PDCC. Only when braking did I really notice the extra weight and had to adjust braking point accordingly. Sorry off topic!

Between the 3 cars in question, in terms of how impressed I was at the time of the drive, I'd probably say
991.1 GTS. 9/10
992.2 C2/4S 6/10
M4 Comp 6/10

Some others :
M5 (at the same BMW event) 8/10
My R8, aside from the driving position, 10/10

[CloudStuff]

Stephen-733s2 said:

mikeh501 said:

I’d go 3.8 gts all day long over the later 3.0 just on noise tbh. Owned one for 5 years and still miss it. As above you need to be on it to keep up with the later car but the engine is more rewarding. Also, the 3.8mhas proved to be pretty reliable, not so much the 3.0 cars

Thanks Mike.

Did you find it quick enough?

I owned two of them, one in Voodoo Blue. Yummy.

Easily quick enough. A lovely high-revving NA engine and just wonderfully balanced. 2wd coupe is the way to go. I hear good things about the manual, but I loved the PDK.

I still smile thinking about it. At no time did I wish that it was a quicker car.

[mikeh501]

Is it fast enough… yes, but only when your on it, and when your on it I mean 5-7k rpm and it’s as rapid as anything else on most roads. Straight drag race, it will hold its own but it’s not going to show heels to an m5 or quadrafoglio at all. If your bimbling and want a in gear ‘torque’ overtake you will be disappointed, but be actually driving in the right gear up the revs it’s really rewarding.

I swopped it for a 991.2 GT3, which is like the 991.1 GTS wound upto 11. Still loved the old GTS, great car and future classic; borne out by the excellent residuals.

[Stephen-733s2]

Thanks very much, everyone.

Really looking forward to the test drive now!

[CloudStuff]

mikeh501 said:

Is it fast enough… yes, but only when your on it, and when your on it I mean 5-7k rpm and it’s as rapid as anything else on most roads. Straight drag race, it will hold its own but it’s not going to show heels to an m5 or quadrafoglio at all. If your bimbling and want a in gear ‘torque’ overtake you will be disappointed, but be actually driving in the right gear up the revs it’s really rewarding.

I swopped it for a 991.2 GT3, which is like the 991.1 GTS wound upto 11. Still loved the old GTS, great car and future classic; borne out by the excellent residuals.

Yup, I quite liked that. I didn't want it to be "out of kilter with everything else" quick. The other thing about the .2, is that it didn't feel a solid in internal materials, or as well screwed together. But the .2 I test drove may have been a Friday car.

[BlackTails]

mikeh501 said:

I’d go 3.8 gts all day long over the later 3.0 just on noise tbh. Owned one for 5 years and still miss it. As above you need to be on it to keep up with the later car but the engine is more rewarding. Also, the 3.8mhas proved to be pretty reliable, not so much the 3.0 cars

This, every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

The NA 3.8l has to be worked to get into the power band but it is plenty fast enough. If the OP wants something that will be torquey lower down then the 3.0T 991.2 engine is probably the way to go, but personally I would always prefer the 3.8l NA engine.

[Stephen-733s2]

I don’t mind having to rev it to get the power, just so long as it’s quick when you do.

[CloudStuff]

Stephen-733s2 said:

I don’t mind having to rev it to get the power, just so long as it’s quick when you do.

It's no Sandero.

[Stephen-733s2]

LOL!!

[NRG1976]

I’ve had many (e.g. E46, E90, F80) M3s and 911s (e.g. 996, 997, 991j ) - amongst loads of other cars!

I’ll probably get flamed for saying this, but the acceleration on cooking 911 models are tad boring compared to say the F80 M3.

The 911 is far easier to get the power down with the weight over the rear and it has quite a linear feel to the power delivery, so it doesn’t feel as rewarding to wring out the power like the M3 with its twitchy back end even on a straight !

Depends what you’re after, but unless I was going for a GT3 or Turbo, and in the absence of taking the car on the track or peddling very quickly around corners, you’ll soon start to think I’m making compromises with the 911 for not much more drama / excitement,

Obviously the 911 looks lovely, it has the heritage and brand etc. but in recent years I have never felt they were as special as the once were. I think it’s because as a brand Porsche are so common now, it’s become like a bmw of yesteryear.

Drive one though, some people are absolutely smitten with them, so maybe you’ll click and feel the same.

Edited by NRG1976 on Tuesday 21st January 21:42

[Stephen-733s2]

Thanks NRG.

That’s a bit worrying. Hopefully I find it justifies the price increase, or if not it will be back to the drawing board.

[jh001]

I wouldn’t be hung up on which one is fastest, all the car you are talking about have to be used very conservatively to stay within speed limits. I don’t know where you live but the all the road within a radius of 20 miles of my house are all very congested and have speed cameras all over the place, there is also no shortage of busybodies with dash cams who would be very happy to give footage to the plod of heroic overtake manoeuvres.

I would be more focused on the overall ownership experience rather than just speed, but that’s me.

If you are regularly tracking, well that’s a different matter.

Just my opinion of course.;)

Edited by jh001 on Tuesday 21st January 21:57

[NRG1976]

Stephen-733s2 said:

Thanks NRG.

That’s a bit worrying. Hopefully I find it justifies the price increase, or if not it will be back to the drawing board.

I think the V10 plus would get the hairs up on the back of your neck - the super car looks / presence (I know it’s subjective but I think they look special in the flesh), rapid acceleration and the v10 engine sound ! I still have my f80 m3 and will probably never sell it, but I’m tempted to put a v10 plus in the stable too (I’m bouncing around between a Ferrari Cali, a 570s or Emiera)

Try them and you’ll know quickly which ones work for you - all very nice cars.

[Youforreal.]

Probably just go out and drive a few, everyone will have their own views.

[Maxus]

Not exactly the same, but we have a 991.1 GTS PDK and an auto M240i. The feedback here reflects my thoughts.

Even compared to the 240, the GTS feels less urgent below 3k revs and in normal mode. As the revs rise it comes alive and keeps going.

On the occasions I push the kickdown it really flies. Every time I do this I am surprised again at the pace and the noise. Glorious.

First time I did this with my wife in the car she commented “that’s horrible, it’s very violent and it sounded like the engine was going to explode” Take that as a compliment.

M4 v GTS book 0-62 times are very similar but the GTS is probably helped by being able to put the power down.

The GTS is an extremely competent and enjoyable car. I found the longer I’ve owned it the more I enjoy it. Give one a go and see what you think.