Tony Blair on Mental Health

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Discussion

Tom8

Original Poster:

4,337 posts

169 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Apologies for a Daily Mail link;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14276897/...

I am amazed to find I finally totally agree with Tony Blair on something. The mental health has overtaken the bad back brigade in work but sadly also in schools, parents using it as an excuse for everything, adults too. Surely we must stop this nonsense, most importantly because (as always) those who do have real issues get lost among the masses and their condition becomes belittled by cynicism which is the worst outcome for everyone.

Sheets Tabuer

20,301 posts

230 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Schizophrenia I can get but allowing conditions that rely only on what you've told a GP to be included in the criteria for getting disability benefits was always going to lead to abuse.


98elise

29,854 posts

176 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Tom8 said:
Apologies for a Daily Mail link;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14276897/...

I am amazed to find I finally totally agree with Tony Blair on something. The mental health has overtaken the bad back brigade in work but sadly also in schools, parents using it as an excuse for everything, adults too. Surely we must stop this nonsense, most importantly because (as always) those who do have real issues get lost among the masses and their condition becomes belittled by cynicism which is the worst outcome for everyone.
Can you put a figure on how much is nonsense?

Both my kids have MH issues, maybe only one should have been diagnosed and treated?

It's very easy to dismiss something you have no experience of.

Tom8

Original Poster:

4,337 posts

169 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
98elise said:
Tom8 said:
Apologies for a Daily Mail link;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14276897/...

I am amazed to find I finally totally agree with Tony Blair on something. The mental health has overtaken the bad back brigade in work but sadly also in schools, parents using it as an excuse for everything, adults too. Surely we must stop this nonsense, most importantly because (as always) those who do have real issues get lost among the masses and their condition becomes belittled by cynicism which is the worst outcome for everyone.
Can you put a figure on how much is nonsense?

Both my kids have MH issues, maybe only one should have been diagnosed and treated?

It's very easy to dismiss something you have no experience of.
I have bad days, bad weeks. So does everyone else in my family or those I know. As I say, if there is a genuine issue it can be supported however with the numbers claiming "the mental health" it becomes farcical. Like many things in society today, a bit of self responsibility instead of trying to find an excuse would help including for those genuinely in need of help.

Sheepshanks

37,257 posts

134 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Something does seem to have happened to kids. Never had a moments trouble with our girls but all three of our grandchildren have different levels of 'bonkersness' - they're not naughty, and they're all pretty clever, but they're just kind of hyper / edgy all the time.

A junior school teacher relative said kids she teaches have changed a lot since Covid and she doesn't think it's put on or led by parents - a good number of her kids are on medication and she said they need to be.

Kingdom35

1,073 posts

100 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
We live in an anxious and social media led world....full of fake, false and disillusioned posts....what were we all expecting this to result in.
MH is a minefield. Not to go into details but ive experienced anxiety and MH periods in my 20s and 30s.
I understand it well. BUT what i will say is, "having a bad days" and stating "sorry ive not been on social media of late, my MH" after 1 day and then being back to normal......is leading to Attention seekers and dilution of real MH.

I think kids can be confused these days and people seek the easy route. But now im coming off as uncaring and probably "old". But well thats my 2ps worth.

Evanivitch

24,478 posts

137 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
The UK and more widely is an absolute cluster-f*** of mental health right now.

Would be great to see proper steps to improve it rather people trying to dismiss legitimate issues for many people.

Everyone has mental health, everyone needs to look after their mental health, but not everyone knows the exercises or has the tools available. More could be done in school, but the healthcare system is also flagging, and frankly parents have a nightmare of managing online and social media interactions. All in a much wider context of global doom.

tim0409

5,266 posts

174 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
A junior school teacher relative said kids she teaches have changed a lot since Covid and she doesn't think it's put on or led by parents - a good number of her kids are on medication and she said they need to be.
One of our neighbours is a teacher and she says exactly the same; post covid there has been a significant negative shift in children’s behaviour. My wife runs a business in the hospitality sector with 150 predominately younger staff and she says there was a massive change post covid in their attitude to work and their expectations (and their ability to communicate with one another and customers), and when that behavioural shift meets the reality of the real world it is no wonder they are suffering from mental health issues.

This is yet another foreseeable consequence of locking people down for long periods of time, and wasn’t factored in to the non existent cost benefit analysis. Tony Blair can fk right off because if he had been in charge things would have been a lot worse.

Edited by tim0409 on Monday 13th January 11:06

wiggy001

6,758 posts

286 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Tom8 said:
Apologies for a Daily Mail link;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14276897/...

I am amazed to find I finally totally agree with Tony Blair on something. The mental health has overtaken the bad back brigade in work but sadly also in schools, parents using it as an excuse for everything, adults too. Surely we must stop this nonsense, most importantly because (as always) those who do have real issues get lost among the masses and their condition becomes belittled by cynicism which is the worst outcome for everyone.
Please report back when you know what you are talking about. Belittling those with mental health conditions because you have no direct experience of it is pretty poor.

All you have to do is look at the stats for suicide (the ultimate outcome for the most severe cases of mental health issues which remain untreated) to see there is a genuine problem. All Tony Blair's comments will do is add to the stigma around mental health and lead more people to stay quiet, self medicate or take the ultimate way out.

98elise

29,854 posts

176 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Tom8 said:
98elise said:
Tom8 said:
Apologies for a Daily Mail link;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14276897/...

I am amazed to find I finally totally agree with Tony Blair on something. The mental health has overtaken the bad back brigade in work but sadly also in schools, parents using it as an excuse for everything, adults too. Surely we must stop this nonsense, most importantly because (as always) those who do have real issues get lost among the masses and their condition becomes belittled by cynicism which is the worst outcome for everyone.
Can you put a figure on how much is nonsense?

Both my kids have MH issues, maybe only one should have been diagnosed and treated?

It's very easy to dismiss something you have no experience of.
I have bad days, bad weeks. So does everyone else in my family or those I know. As I say, if there is a genuine issue it can be supported however with the numbers claiming "the mental health" it becomes farcical. Like many things in society today, a bit of self responsibility instead of trying to find an excuse would help including for those genuinely in need of help.
For someone with MH issues it's constant. You don't claim it, you get diagnosed.

Help/treatment is almost non existent on the NHS. As a child the waiting list will be months if not years, and you'll just get a couple of therapy sessions. My daughter (with social anxiety) was given 3 group sessions. Total waste of time.

Tom8

Original Poster:

4,337 posts

169 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
98elise said:
Tom8 said:
98elise said:
Tom8 said:
Apologies for a Daily Mail link;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14276897/...

I am amazed to find I finally totally agree with Tony Blair on something. The mental health has overtaken the bad back brigade in work but sadly also in schools, parents using it as an excuse for everything, adults too. Surely we must stop this nonsense, most importantly because (as always) those who do have real issues get lost among the masses and their condition becomes belittled by cynicism which is the worst outcome for everyone.
Can you put a figure on how much is nonsense?

Both my kids have MH issues, maybe only one should have been diagnosed and treated?

It's very easy to dismiss something you have no experience of.
I have bad days, bad weeks. So does everyone else in my family or those I know. As I say, if there is a genuine issue it can be supported however with the numbers claiming "the mental health" it becomes farcical. Like many things in society today, a bit of self responsibility instead of trying to find an excuse would help including for those genuinely in need of help.
For someone with MH issues it's constant. You don't claim it, you get diagnosed.

Help/treatment is almost non existent on the NHS. As a child the waiting list will be months if not years, and you'll just get a couple of therapy sessions. My daughter (with social anxiety) was given 3 group sessions. Total waste of time.
I think that swings right back to what Blair is saying. What is social anxiety - a clinical diagnosis? What should be the "treatment" as you dismiss the sessions she did? Why should that be "free" on the NHS?

ChocolateFrog

32,011 posts

188 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
I think it's almost entirely down to SM.

The absolute ste that my 4yo can access on YT kids within 5 mins is a scandal.

Violence, swearing, deception, coercion, harmful stereotypes, it's all there, belt fed if you let them.

Mr Whippy

31,128 posts

256 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Yep Apple, YouTube, Microsoft, Facebook, all of them, scummy behaviour selling addictive crap.

Be it addictive games with micro-transactions, bright day-glow videos with adverts to zone out to for kids, etc.


It’s all gone unregulated and flies completely under the radar with government doing sod all and parents left ignorant or stuck.


Ie, I want to limit YT on my Apple TV to 4pm to 6pm, I can sit and watch it with them and keep an eye on it.
Any way to do that? Nope.
All or nothing.
No way to bad specific channels in the app.
Topics?
News?
Only allow subbed channels?

Nope nope nope. They don’t want to give you choice, because that breaks their ‘feeding’ model, to feed you bullst to get you addicted and watch adverts.



Mental health generally. Yeah, if you want to be a victim and then let yourself be a victim, and let the NHS give you pills, great… everyone is mental.

Very few proper solutions to the symptoms because that costs money… so unless you pay you won’t realise you’re addicted to something, have a trauma, or were brought up a bit wrong, or whatever else.

Leaving the serious problem people to go under supported and a risk to themselves and others I’d imagine.

Vanden Saab

16,167 posts

89 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
wiggy001 said:
Please report back when you know what you are talking about. Belittling those with mental health conditions because you have no direct experience of it is pretty poor.

All you have to do is look at the stats for suicide (the ultimate outcome for the most severe cases of mental health issues which remain untreated) to see there is a genuine problem. All Tony Blair's comments will do is add to the stigma around mental health and lead more people to stay quiet, self medicate or take the ultimate way out.
I looked...



Also



And

In 2023, males aged 45 to 49 years had the highest rate (25.5 per 100,000) and females aged 50 to 54 years had the highest rate (9.2 per 100,000).

All taken from here
https://www.google.com/search?q=suicide+rates+uk&a...

Chris Peacock

3,133 posts

149 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
ChocolateFrog said:
I think it's almost entirely down to SM.

The absolute ste that my 4yo can access on YT kids within 5 mins is a scandal.

Violence, swearing, deception, coercion, harmful stereotypes, it's all there, belt fed if you let them.
My kids used to watch a lot of YT kids, which I naively thought would be completely harmless cartoons and children's videos. After I actually spend a few minutes paying attention to the 'content' they were watching we now have a complete ban on watching it. It's shockingly bad.

Mr Whippy

31,128 posts

256 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Chris Peacock said:
ChocolateFrog said:
I think it's almost entirely down to SM.

The absolute ste that my 4yo can access on YT kids within 5 mins is a scandal.

Violence, swearing, deception, coercion, harmful stereotypes, it's all there, belt fed if you let them.
My kids used to watch a lot of YT kids, which I naively thought would be completely harmless cartoons and children's videos. After I actually spend a few minutes paying attention to the 'content' they were watching we now have a complete ban on watching it. It's shockingly bad.
It's almost subversively worse than normal YT watching 'good' content.

Ie, my son does watch some rubbish, as does my daughter, but it's their guilty pleasure.

But slowly they're understanding moderating it themselves. I now usually catch my son watching modelling videos with clay/plasticine (he likes this), or watching animators doing flip books (he enjoys this too), etc.


The problem with YT and their 'apps' (which is how most people are exposed) is it's designed to be addicitve.

But underneath the 'shorts' and addictive stream of crap, is tons of really really great content. But being able to orchestrate your setup to only give you the good stuff is very hard.

I'm slowly moving away from the Apple TV (because Apple are dicks) and setting up a lounge PC again, using Firefox browser, and appropriate addons/blocks etc so YouTube can be properly controlled.



I won't pretend I've got it all right. My daughter says some amazingly wrong but adult sounding things because of (probably) YT exposure... but if it's not her getting exposed directly it'll be at school from others who've been exposed to bullst.


All I can say is best to teach your kids how to discriminate and use critical thinking as much as you can... because there will be no escape from the constant bullst flow, especially now AI is in on the action... and none of the big amazing lovely tech companies give a st about the st they're pushing your kids.

otolith

61,647 posts

219 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Perhaps rather than medicalising these conditions we ought to be asking what it is about the way that our society functions that is so at odds with how so many people's brains work? We've spent a couple of hundred years constructing modern industrialised society, about 12,000 years farming, and about 200,000 years being fundamentally the same creatures we are now.

kevinon

1,760 posts

75 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
A lot of capitalism needs people to become addicted.

If we define addiction as having great difficulty in withdrawing from the behaviour / substance.

As a life coach / trainee therapist I'd love the opportunity to help people uncover their reasons for using alcohol, other drugs, shopping, compulsive sex, gaming, social media, gambling, porn etc. (no judgement, I've got history).

But it feels like a lot of modern life involves 'dissociation' / numbing. Maybe taking the place of connection and community. And being with our emotions, all of them.

The drug Ketamine (the horse tranquilliser) is dissociative. And 300,000 people in UK took it last year. And not just at raves / clubs - it's becoming an 'at home' end-of-day drug.

Tl;dr - there are lots of people with underlying / or early MH issues, and a whole economy that hinders people's well-being, and it disproportionaltly affects younger people - because of social media, 'individual' pursuits.












Tankrizzo

7,734 posts

208 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Based on observations of my two sons and their friends - I would say part of the issue is most certainly not social media in general, but specifically the very short, snappy, loud reels and shorts (plus most of TikTok) which is designed to be as addictive as possible. It absolutely has an effect on kids' attention spans. My mrs is a teacher and she has definitely noticed a big difference between the current Year 7s and 8s, and the same age cohort when she first started teaching 15 years ago. Unable to maintain eye contact and in some cases total inability to focus on something longer than about 10 seconds, and if something is not spoon-fed then interest is lost quite quickly.

This isn't an "old white man shouts at the clouds/youth of today" thing (I'm only 45!) but an actual opinion based on stuff I've directly seen.

My kids at 11 don't have access to any social media platforms (if I had my way they would never be able to access TikTok!) but the Youtube shorts are damaging enough and access to them has to be severely limited.

Covid definitely had an impact, and I suspect a lot of it was that a lot of time-poor parents who also had to work (or in fewer cases couldn't be bothered to entertain their kids in lockdown) probably frisbeed their kids pads and phones without adequate supervision, and this is the result.

I think in 20 years we will look back and wonder what on earth we were doing exposing kids to this stuff.

ChocolateFrog

32,011 posts

188 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Chris Peacock said:
ChocolateFrog said:
I think it's almost entirely down to SM.

The absolute ste that my 4yo can access on YT kids within 5 mins is a scandal.

Violence, swearing, deception, coercion, harmful stereotypes, it's all there, belt fed if you let them.
My kids used to watch a lot of YT kids, which I naively thought would be completely harmless cartoons and children's videos. After I actually spend a few minutes paying attention to the 'content' they were watching we now have a complete ban on watching it. It's shockingly bad.
It's the shorts that are by and large the worst.

I overheard a 'fk' the other day. How does something so easy to filter and block be allowed through.

Or cartoon spiderman doing an ISIS impression and throwing people off the top of a high rise building.

"Like and subscribe if you love your parents" or more sinister versions that intimate harm.

I think I'm at the point where YT is getting deleted for them.