E92 330i to E92 M3. How different?
Discussion
I know that there is a strong possibility that this is a silly question, but anyway..
To those who have driven both, how different are they? The M3 has always been a dream car of mine, but I could never really justify owning one. I settled on a 330i instead, which has been fantastic, but has always left me wondering what the M3 is like.
Thanks for any insight!
To those who have driven both, how different are they? The M3 has always been a dream car of mine, but I could never really justify owning one. I settled on a 330i instead, which has been fantastic, but has always left me wondering what the M3 is like.
Thanks for any insight!
I have owned a 335i and driven an M3 (and a few others) and the difference is significant, not least of all in the power levels and delivery, but also in the traction and grip levels because of the changes to the suspension, tyres and the addition of the M differential. The engine noise alone will really boost the experience, as the straight six is lovely, but the V8 is on another level. Other touches, like better seats and higher quality leather make subtle differences. I suppose you could say it's similar to the difference in a 318i to your 330i. Same basic underpinnings to a degree, but the 330i is a much nicer experience.
However, as a road car and certainly as a daily used car, the 330i might not be inferior overall. The fuel economy and range on an M3 is a challenge and can be frustrating. My M6, broadly similar, could get as little as 130 miles to a tank if enjoying it, which actually compromised it quite a bit. Comfort is another aspect, as the M car may be too firm for some.
But the real challenge is the maintenance of it. The cost is a lot higher for an M car and you don't want to skimp on it in anyway. This means that the 330i might only be 70% of an M3, but it might be 40% of the cost (illustrative numbers). It might simply not be worth it to you, but to others that 30% difference matters much more.
However, as a road car and certainly as a daily used car, the 330i might not be inferior overall. The fuel economy and range on an M3 is a challenge and can be frustrating. My M6, broadly similar, could get as little as 130 miles to a tank if enjoying it, which actually compromised it quite a bit. Comfort is another aspect, as the M car may be too firm for some.
But the real challenge is the maintenance of it. The cost is a lot higher for an M car and you don't want to skimp on it in anyway. This means that the 330i might only be 70% of an M3, but it might be 40% of the cost (illustrative numbers). It might simply not be worth it to you, but to others that 30% difference matters much more.
In addition to the points raised above, you've got the 'configurability' of the M3; with the EDC (where equipped), the ability to alter speed of the DCT changes, the MDM mode allowing a degree of slip, 3 stage throttle mapping etc.
It's also going to feel stiffer and with a bit more weight to the steering.
In fairness, you might experiment with all of the above and then settle on a single configuration, so the rest become a bit of a moot point, so to speak.
Whether you find the M3 significantly more accellerative at lower RPM is another matter. As is - as Mike says above - whether you think the uplift in driving experience warrants the additional costs of fuel, tax and maintenance.
It's also going to feel stiffer and with a bit more weight to the steering.
In fairness, you might experiment with all of the above and then settle on a single configuration, so the rest become a bit of a moot point, so to speak.
Whether you find the M3 significantly more accellerative at lower RPM is another matter. As is - as Mike says above - whether you think the uplift in driving experience warrants the additional costs of fuel, tax and maintenance.
I've owned both an E92 M3(manual) and an E90 330i(auto). Out of the 2 the 330i was the better daily for me, and the E90 330d that I also used to have, was an even better daily than the both of them in my humble opinion.
The M3's V8 was/is special for sure, but it was quite a frustrating engine to use(or not use in my case) on my commute. I never got the best of the engine with my circumstances, so I was getting about 17mpg, but sitting in exactly the same interior as a 320d though. So it didn't make sense as a daily for me.
The E90 330i was better on fuel(around 26mpg, but more on a long journey though), and the N52 engine was still a nice engine to use I thought. I did miss the LSD in the M3 though in fairness, and the LSD made the M3 lovely and playful.
I'm currently in a F82 M4(DCT) as my daily, and I've been over the moon with that as my daily for almost 4 years now and 34k miles, and that even returns more mpg than my 330i did as well at 29mpg.
The M3's V8 was/is special for sure, but it was quite a frustrating engine to use(or not use in my case) on my commute. I never got the best of the engine with my circumstances, so I was getting about 17mpg, but sitting in exactly the same interior as a 320d though. So it didn't make sense as a daily for me.
The E90 330i was better on fuel(around 26mpg, but more on a long journey though), and the N52 engine was still a nice engine to use I thought. I did miss the LSD in the M3 though in fairness, and the LSD made the M3 lovely and playful.
I'm currently in a F82 M4(DCT) as my daily, and I've been over the moon with that as my daily for almost 4 years now and 34k miles, and that even returns more mpg than my 330i did as well at 29mpg.
Obviously the 330i (or 335i) won’t have the theatre of the M car.
However… as a daily I think that is a different question.
I’ve driven a couple of E92 M3s and done lots of miles in an E90 330i. I’ve also had a lot of experience with the later x35i engine (although not in an E9x chassis).
I suspect for a daily I’d prefer a 335i, possibly with an LSD.
Once you’ve driven turbo torque it becomes quite hard to go back to NA high revving engines. Of course driving for fun/track then it would be the M car every time.
Now clearly I haven’t done a very good job of answering your question, since you didn’t mention the 335i. On the 330i I honestly think that they are great and the engine is an absolute gem. Not dissimilar to the one in a 3.0 E36 M3. For a daily I might take that over an M3 (particularly if I could get away with something else in the garage).
However… as a daily I think that is a different question.
I’ve driven a couple of E92 M3s and done lots of miles in an E90 330i. I’ve also had a lot of experience with the later x35i engine (although not in an E9x chassis).
I suspect for a daily I’d prefer a 335i, possibly with an LSD.
Once you’ve driven turbo torque it becomes quite hard to go back to NA high revving engines. Of course driving for fun/track then it would be the M car every time.
Now clearly I haven’t done a very good job of answering your question, since you didn’t mention the 335i. On the 330i I honestly think that they are great and the engine is an absolute gem. Not dissimilar to the one in a 3.0 E36 M3. For a daily I might take that over an M3 (particularly if I could get away with something else in the garage).
cerb4.5lee said:
I've owned both an E92 M3(manual) and an E90 330i(auto). Out of the 2 the 330i was the better daily for me, and the E90 330d that I also used to have, was an even better daily than the both of them in my humble opinion.
The M3's V8 was/is special for sure, but it was quite a frustrating engine to use(or not use in my case) on my commute. I never got the best of the engine with my circumstances, so I was getting about 17mpg, but sitting in exactly the same interior as a 320d though. So it didn't make sense as a daily for me.
The E90 330i was better on fuel(around 26mpg, but more on a long journey though), and the N52 engine was still a nice engine to use I thought. I did miss the LSD in the M3 though in fairness, and the LSD made the M3 lovely and playful.
I'm currently in a F82 M4(DCT) as my daily, and I've been over the moon with that as my daily for almost 4 years now and 34k miles, and that even returns more mpg than my 330i did as well at 29mpg.
It's worth noting that the M3 makes more torque throughout the rev range than the the 330i though. All the talk of no torque low down doesn't hold true in reality, it has more torque low down and a lot more higher up.The M3's V8 was/is special for sure, but it was quite a frustrating engine to use(or not use in my case) on my commute. I never got the best of the engine with my circumstances, so I was getting about 17mpg, but sitting in exactly the same interior as a 320d though. So it didn't make sense as a daily for me.
The E90 330i was better on fuel(around 26mpg, but more on a long journey though), and the N52 engine was still a nice engine to use I thought. I did miss the LSD in the M3 though in fairness, and the LSD made the M3 lovely and playful.
I'm currently in a F82 M4(DCT) as my daily, and I've been over the moon with that as my daily for almost 4 years now and 34k miles, and that even returns more mpg than my 330i did as well at 29mpg.
I’ve owned a 130i, 325i, 335i and M3. I’d say they feel very different, but not always in a way that favours the M3.
The engine is a masterpiece, but I’d say it needs to be over 5000 rpm to put a smile on your face. Which really means when you’re pushing it, which isn’t often enough on the road.
The other thing I found frustrating about the M3 is how high and unsupportive the seats are - it feels like you’re sitting on the car rather than in it. The 335i was much better in this regard.
I love the looks of the coupe, it’s a decent upgrade on the normal cars.
Even though it doesn’t look as special, I’d say the 335i with the N54 engine is the best road car - although mine had an LSD and upgraded suspension.
What has previously said about running costs is true. I don’t do a lot of miles (10k a year max) so never cared much about fuel, but the servicing is expensive and paranoia about things like rod bearings means that you’re either paying for a warranty or getting them replaced.
That said, the N54 in the 335i has a number of known faults (injectors, turbos and fuel pumps) but at least they don’t destroy the engine.
Best value is probably an N55 335i, less stuff seems to go wrong.
All of that said, they’ll never make a V8 like that again, so I’m glad I had one for a while. Didn’t lose much money on it either, although the runnings costs weren’t small.
The engine is a masterpiece, but I’d say it needs to be over 5000 rpm to put a smile on your face. Which really means when you’re pushing it, which isn’t often enough on the road.
The other thing I found frustrating about the M3 is how high and unsupportive the seats are - it feels like you’re sitting on the car rather than in it. The 335i was much better in this regard.
I love the looks of the coupe, it’s a decent upgrade on the normal cars.
Even though it doesn’t look as special, I’d say the 335i with the N54 engine is the best road car - although mine had an LSD and upgraded suspension.
What has previously said about running costs is true. I don’t do a lot of miles (10k a year max) so never cared much about fuel, but the servicing is expensive and paranoia about things like rod bearings means that you’re either paying for a warranty or getting them replaced.
That said, the N54 in the 335i has a number of known faults (injectors, turbos and fuel pumps) but at least they don’t destroy the engine.
Best value is probably an N55 335i, less stuff seems to go wrong.
All of that said, they’ll never make a V8 like that again, so I’m glad I had one for a while. Didn’t lose much money on it either, although the runnings costs weren’t small.
Edited by survivalist on Saturday 18th January 22:19
MikeM6 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I've owned both an E92 M3(manual) and an E90 330i(auto). Out of the 2 the 330i was the better daily for me, and the E90 330d that I also used to have, was an even better daily than the both of them in my humble opinion.
The M3's V8 was/is special for sure, but it was quite a frustrating engine to use(or not use in my case) on my commute. I never got the best of the engine with my circumstances, so I was getting about 17mpg, but sitting in exactly the same interior as a 320d though. So it didn't make sense as a daily for me.
The E90 330i was better on fuel(around 26mpg, but more on a long journey though), and the N52 engine was still a nice engine to use I thought. I did miss the LSD in the M3 though in fairness, and the LSD made the M3 lovely and playful.
I'm currently in a F82 M4(DCT) as my daily, and I've been over the moon with that as my daily for almost 4 years now and 34k miles, and that even returns more mpg than my 330i did as well at 29mpg.
It's worth noting that the M3 makes more torque throughout the rev range than the the 330i though. All the talk of no torque low down doesn't hold true in reality, it has more torque low down and a lot more higher up.The M3's V8 was/is special for sure, but it was quite a frustrating engine to use(or not use in my case) on my commute. I never got the best of the engine with my circumstances, so I was getting about 17mpg, but sitting in exactly the same interior as a 320d though. So it didn't make sense as a daily for me.
The E90 330i was better on fuel(around 26mpg, but more on a long journey though), and the N52 engine was still a nice engine to use I thought. I did miss the LSD in the M3 though in fairness, and the LSD made the M3 lovely and playful.
I'm currently in a F82 M4(DCT) as my daily, and I've been over the moon with that as my daily for almost 4 years now and 34k miles, and that even returns more mpg than my 330i did as well at 29mpg.
Weirdly my 370Z actually has less torque than the M3, and is also only a bit lighter than it, but that never feels torque light in the way that the M3 did/does for me though in comparison.
Long time since I've been around this way, but 330i vs M3, I think the enjoyment you derive depends on how hard you drive them.
I owned an E91 330i Touring Auto for 10 months probably over 10 years ago now, and hated the auto box and the handling balance. It always felt understeery and the auto box wasn't anything like the latest ZF8s.
I sold it and had an M135i for 3 years, which I also didn't get on with, and then moved to an E92 M3. It was a revelation! All that was wrong with the 330i and the M135i were righted in the M3. It had a handling balance that the other two couldn't match and the harder you push it, the more it rewards. The other two just started to fall apart in terms of balance and feel as you push them harder. Either the inside wheel would start to spin or the chassis would be rolling over a long way (not very sporty) or the soft front suspension bushes (compared to the M3) would be flexing and creating more understeer.
The M3, by comparison, felt firm, keen to turn, more neutral or oversteery (if you want that), far less nannying (from electronics that were slow to turn off (M135i)) and incredibly responsive whenever you hit the throttle.
Add to that the glorious induction and exhaust note and it sealed the deal for me. I'm now in my 8th year of e92 M3 ownership. I've modded the exhaust and have a CF intake that both provide more theatre. Overall, it's been a fabulous car thus far, with only the admittedly pricey tax putting any sort of dampener on things.
I owned an E91 330i Touring Auto for 10 months probably over 10 years ago now, and hated the auto box and the handling balance. It always felt understeery and the auto box wasn't anything like the latest ZF8s.
I sold it and had an M135i for 3 years, which I also didn't get on with, and then moved to an E92 M3. It was a revelation! All that was wrong with the 330i and the M135i were righted in the M3. It had a handling balance that the other two couldn't match and the harder you push it, the more it rewards. The other two just started to fall apart in terms of balance and feel as you push them harder. Either the inside wheel would start to spin or the chassis would be rolling over a long way (not very sporty) or the soft front suspension bushes (compared to the M3) would be flexing and creating more understeer.
The M3, by comparison, felt firm, keen to turn, more neutral or oversteery (if you want that), far less nannying (from electronics that were slow to turn off (M135i)) and incredibly responsive whenever you hit the throttle.
Add to that the glorious induction and exhaust note and it sealed the deal for me. I'm now in my 8th year of e92 M3 ownership. I've modded the exhaust and have a CF intake that both provide more theatre. Overall, it's been a fabulous car thus far, with only the admittedly pricey tax putting any sort of dampener on things.
Also to add. I had an e89 with a stage 1 N54 chucking out 370bhp and similar ft lbs. The turbos has been rebuilt before my ownership and I suffered zero issues with fuel pump.
That engine is an absolute peach. Sounds fab, tons of low down power and a beefy mid range. Perhaps the opposite of the V8 but in some ways more satisfying to drive, more of the time. A head-to-head would have been interesting. My money would have been on the Z4.
I had a 335i touring with the N55, also stage 1, but it never felt as punchy as the N54. In fairness, the ZF8 perhaps robbed it of a bit of drama.
In short, I'd happily have a 335i from a driving and performance perspective, but I think I'd miss the looks and kudos of the M3.
I do agree with Lee though that the M3 can feel flat footed. It's a car that rarely feels as fast as it perhaps is.
That engine is an absolute peach. Sounds fab, tons of low down power and a beefy mid range. Perhaps the opposite of the V8 but in some ways more satisfying to drive, more of the time. A head-to-head would have been interesting. My money would have been on the Z4.
I had a 335i touring with the N55, also stage 1, but it never felt as punchy as the N54. In fairness, the ZF8 perhaps robbed it of a bit of drama.
In short, I'd happily have a 335i from a driving and performance perspective, but I think I'd miss the looks and kudos of the M3.
I do agree with Lee though that the M3 can feel flat footed. It's a car that rarely feels as fast as it perhaps is.
I currently own an E90 325i and an E90 M3.
There is a HUGE difference between how both of them feel. 325i is the better, more comfortable daily and I love the N52 engine but I guess if you want a car for driving enjoyment then there is no comparison between the two. M3 is immeasurably the better steer. Handling, brakes and steering all far superior in the M3.
And then we get to the engine. The S65 is, for me, the most special engine to ever have been put in a 3-series.
If you want a car that is memorable to drive and will put a smile on your face at the weekends then it has to be the M3.
There is a HUGE difference between how both of them feel. 325i is the better, more comfortable daily and I love the N52 engine but I guess if you want a car for driving enjoyment then there is no comparison between the two. M3 is immeasurably the better steer. Handling, brakes and steering all far superior in the M3.
And then we get to the engine. The S65 is, for me, the most special engine to ever have been put in a 3-series.
If you want a car that is memorable to drive and will put a smile on your face at the weekends then it has to be the M3.
cerb4.5lee said:
Great to hear from you again Ben. 
8 years with the E92 M3...where did all that time go?(although I've had the 370Z for 6 years in April too).
Hope you're keeping well.
Hi Lee,8 years with the E92 M3...where did all that time go?(although I've had the 370Z for 6 years in April too).
Hope you're keeping well.
I know! The M3 has behaved itself too. We bought an X3 when we bought the M3 and the X3 has since needed a timing chain, new turbo oil feed pipes and a new gearbox after the prop detached and cracked it. The M3 has been the more reliable car, but then I have done way less miles in it.
Glad the 370 is going well. I always thought they looked pretty cool after seeing a brand new one in black drive past me one day when they first came out.
My kids are now old enough to appreciate the M3 too and find it laugh-out-loud fun when doing tunnel runs.
Hope you're doing well!
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