Video AI Enhancers
Discussion
I have been looking today at Video AI enhance tools like Topaz and HitPaw, and wondering if they are worth purchasing. Appreciate they maybe considered expensive but I am wondering if they are able to do some magic to some 4K video that does not look as good as it should...
Video has been shot with a 4K Dashcam (Kenwood DRV-A601W https://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/car/accessor... ) and has been cropped in iMovie to get rid of the bonnet and RV Mirror. I have probably cropped just under 1/4 of the screen. (I don't actually understand how this is now still 4K but maybe I am missing the relevant point!).
Appreciate also I might be limited with the editing capability of iMovie and whether a learning curve is needed up to Davinci or Final Cut Pro, but am looking to get the best quality output for a reasonable cost.
Last Q I suppose is to do with workflow - if the AI tools are worth it, would you run the original through the AI tool (say HitPaw) first before importing into Davinci/FCP?
Or is the notion Garbage in garbage out still very relevant?
Would appreciate your thoughts economically and technically please.
TIA.
Video has been shot with a 4K Dashcam (Kenwood DRV-A601W https://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/car/accessor... ) and has been cropped in iMovie to get rid of the bonnet and RV Mirror. I have probably cropped just under 1/4 of the screen. (I don't actually understand how this is now still 4K but maybe I am missing the relevant point!).
Appreciate also I might be limited with the editing capability of iMovie and whether a learning curve is needed up to Davinci or Final Cut Pro, but am looking to get the best quality output for a reasonable cost.
Last Q I suppose is to do with workflow - if the AI tools are worth it, would you run the original through the AI tool (say HitPaw) first before importing into Davinci/FCP?
Or is the notion Garbage in garbage out still very relevant?
Would appreciate your thoughts economically and technically please.
TIA.
Simpo Two said:
If you want video quality worthy of DaVinci etc I wouldn't start with a dashcam. '4K' doesn't mean it's any good, it just means lots of pixels.
Start with the best possible input, rather than try to polish a turd
Thanks Simpo. While I completely concur and next time I will be much more aware, I am dealing with already captured footage.Start with the best possible input, rather than try to polish a turd
I reckon I need to crop the 4k footage and export to 1080P. Reading today, that way seems to offer the best output. Then look for an AI tool to upscale.
I think cropping then trying to export to 4k is causing further detriment to the output.
Or am I miles off?
OK then. Know a bit about this.
I'll cover this first:
It is remarkably good. I use it mostly to de-noise content where we've had to push the ISO way high. On this, it exceeds any native de-noising tool in any of the three main editing platforms. It can sharpen up, stabilise and upscale content too.
The PH photo thing will no doubt loose some of the detail but a couple of examples (source file is on the left, as it cam out of the camera)
Video here if you're interested: https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/1032363359
However....
If you run the desktop version, you need a weapons grade system. I run a Mac Studio with the full beans - M2 ultra 76 core, 192GB of RAM, etc.... Even with that, it can strain a little on some of the more complex tasks. You can use the Topaz cloud render option by buying credits as you go. I've not used this but I believe the quality isn't quite on par with the desktop version.
Just to give you an idea, those two clips above were around 40 seconds in length. My Mac Studio only arrived just before Christmas so those were process via Topaz on a top-spec iMac, just three years old and each clip took nearly two hours to render. I tested them on the Mac Studio and they took 10 minutes.
And as good as it is, it doesn't take much to go too far with the enhancing and ending up with content that looks like an Ai generated cartoon. The more subtle the use, the better it is.
So, is it worth it?
If you're a pro videographer I'd say that it's a very handy, perhaps essential, addition to your arsenal as it provides a good get-out-jail card. Topaz is a brilliant turd-polisher. The aim is to get what you need in the camera but there are times when that's not possible or doesn't happen and Topaz can help. But you still have a polished turd.
If you're not a pro-videographer, then I'd say that there's a better option.
HTH!
ETA: Click on the photos to full size and you'll see the difference!
I'll cover this first:
mattyn1 said:
Video has been shot with a 4K Dashcam (Kenwood DRV-A601W https://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/car/accessor... ) and has been cropped in iMovie to get rid of the bonnet and RV Mirror. I have probably cropped just under 1/4 of the screen. (I don't actually understand how this is now still 4K but maybe I am missing the relevant point!).
If you have set up the time line on which you are editing to 4k, then the clip you crop will be part of a 4k 'production' but will have less resolution than the clips you've not cropped. So technically, not 4K. If you're cropping, then you really need to be using 4k footage on a 1080 (HD) timeline. This gives you enormous headroom to crop without loosing quality. The end production will only be 1080 but 1080 is still the resolution most people view things in anyway.mattyn1 said:
I have been looking today at Video AI enhance tools like Topaz and HitPaw, and wondering if they are worth purchasing. Appreciate they maybe considered expensive but I am wondering if they are able to do some magic to some 4K video that does not look as good as it should...
I have the full Topaz suite. It is remarkably good. I use it mostly to de-noise content where we've had to push the ISO way high. On this, it exceeds any native de-noising tool in any of the three main editing platforms. It can sharpen up, stabilise and upscale content too.
The PH photo thing will no doubt loose some of the detail but a couple of examples (source file is on the left, as it cam out of the camera)
Video here if you're interested: https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/1032363359
However....
If you run the desktop version, you need a weapons grade system. I run a Mac Studio with the full beans - M2 ultra 76 core, 192GB of RAM, etc.... Even with that, it can strain a little on some of the more complex tasks. You can use the Topaz cloud render option by buying credits as you go. I've not used this but I believe the quality isn't quite on par with the desktop version.
Just to give you an idea, those two clips above were around 40 seconds in length. My Mac Studio only arrived just before Christmas so those were process via Topaz on a top-spec iMac, just three years old and each clip took nearly two hours to render. I tested them on the Mac Studio and they took 10 minutes.
And as good as it is, it doesn't take much to go too far with the enhancing and ending up with content that looks like an Ai generated cartoon. The more subtle the use, the better it is.
mattyn1 said:
would you run the original through the AI tool (say HitPaw) first before importing into Davinci/FCP?
I process the clips I'm going to use first before importing for edit. The risk of exporting the clips once edited, processing then importing them back is that if you want to change the edit and add more of that clip, it isn't there. So, is it worth it?
If you're a pro videographer I'd say that it's a very handy, perhaps essential, addition to your arsenal as it provides a good get-out-jail card. Topaz is a brilliant turd-polisher. The aim is to get what you need in the camera but there are times when that's not possible or doesn't happen and Topaz can help. But you still have a polished turd.
If you're not a pro-videographer, then I'd say that there's a better option.
mattyn1 said:
Appreciate also I might be limited with the editing capability of iMovie and whether a learning curve is needed up to Davinci or Final Cut Pro, but am looking to get the best quality output for a reasonable cost.
Stepping up to Final Cut Pro would be my recommendation. It's a natural progression from iMovie and comes with an expansive suite of native tools that do much of what Topaz can do. Some of the Ai stuff isn't far off Topaz quality as it is. Plus, it has a vast eco-system of plug-ins and tools that you can add later if you wish. HTH!
ETA: Click on the photos to full size and you'll see the difference!
StevieBee
Wow. Wonderful response, full of the detail I need to digest. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this… much appreciated.
I have a new Mac Mini M4 Pro with 4TB of external ssd … have treated myself over Xmas! The Studio was and I suspect the new one will be out of reach, so bit the bullet- is only a hobby after all. Happy to spend some £s within reason, and having had a look at Divinci, I am a bit over-awed by it. FCP from what I have seen seems the way to go.
Again, thank you. You have confirmed how my mechanical mind was working with resolutions… which was clashing with what the files info were telling me!
Happier now. One stage at a time… work on the trial version of FCP, see how it goes.
Some of my footage has screen reflections in… is there a specific process to help to eradicate that in editing?
Really appreciate the time taken StevieBee.
Wow. Wonderful response, full of the detail I need to digest. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this… much appreciated.
I have a new Mac Mini M4 Pro with 4TB of external ssd … have treated myself over Xmas! The Studio was and I suspect the new one will be out of reach, so bit the bullet- is only a hobby after all. Happy to spend some £s within reason, and having had a look at Divinci, I am a bit over-awed by it. FCP from what I have seen seems the way to go.
Again, thank you. You have confirmed how my mechanical mind was working with resolutions… which was clashing with what the files info were telling me!
Happier now. One stage at a time… work on the trial version of FCP, see how it goes.
Some of my footage has screen reflections in… is there a specific process to help to eradicate that in editing?
Really appreciate the time taken StevieBee.
mattyn1 said:
Really appreciate the time taken StevieBee.
You're more than welcome!mattyn1 said:
Some of my footage has screen reflections in… is there a specific process to help to eradicate that in editing?
There is... but the ease and effect of which is dependant upon many factors.If the reflection is in the same place all the time for the duration of the clip, the way I'd do is duplicate the clip and lay one on top of the other. On the top clip, apply a mask drawing a line to follow the shape of the reflection and then adjust the contrast, light, curves, etc until you arrive at something similar to where the reflection isn't. You'll not get it 100% but will lessen it to acceptable levels.
If it moves about, you're into painstaking key-framing or trick 3D motion tracking.
One of the main issues with shooting through glass is that you can end up with a green tinge. That can easily be dialled out by adjusting the colour curves for the clip. Try doing that first as it may lessen the impact of the reflection.
Shooting through car glass is a major pain in filmmaking. It's why on so many productions they take it out or hang all manner of shades over the car when shooting.
I had one dash camera (which I had to replace out there because the first failed in the heat), my insta360 camera, and 5,500 miles to cover!
I learned one valuable lesson with regard to suction mounts… don’t buy cheap as they just don’t work!! Poor daughter had to hold the selfie stick out of the car on some of the more spectacular routes!
We are going to go again hopefully maybe next year fingers crossed , so will attack it with a bit more thought and prep!
Edited by mattyn1 on Sunday 12th January 00:01
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