Los Angeles wild fire
Discussion
Can't see a current thread running on this (though mentions of it in a climate change thread).
Not the first time that LA has experienced fires, but this looks on another level entirely. The pictures in the news are absolutely nuts! Fire burning down the main streets and properties gutted.
Death toll currently at 5, but much still burning with little ability to control by the fire department due to the scale of it. Hopefully doesn't rise further but perhaps that's wishful thinking. 180k citizens told to evacuate.
Seems the Police suspect it may have been started maliciously.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c5y81zyp1ext
Not the first time that LA has experienced fires, but this looks on another level entirely. The pictures in the news are absolutely nuts! Fire burning down the main streets and properties gutted.
Death toll currently at 5, but much still burning with little ability to control by the fire department due to the scale of it. Hopefully doesn't rise further but perhaps that's wishful thinking. 180k citizens told to evacuate.
Seems the Police suspect it may have been started maliciously.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c5y81zyp1ext
Edited by Pebbles167 on Thursday 9th January 18:35
I saw a clip of Joe Rogan last year recounting what an LA firefighter had told him. He said they have up until now been lucky with the wind but at some point there will be a fire that rips through LA with virtually no way of stopping it - https://youtube.com/shorts/QQfwfQumqJY?si=MXZweZlW...
ambuletz said:
rallye101 said:
Theres a horriffic video on Instagram with 2 guys and their dog in their house surrounded by flame,hope they made it out!
they did.The fact many celebrities homes are gone will likely give this some extra traction in the news also. I didn't realize how bad the fires can get in the built up areas.
I know the weather here is mostly s
t
But the ground doesn't wobble and try and swallow you, the wind doesn't blow and try and wipe you off the surface, nor is it prone to freezing you or burning down everything around you
Oh and it's not full of birds, insects, animals, fish and plants that want to eat you or poison you
t But the ground doesn't wobble and try and swallow you, the wind doesn't blow and try and wipe you off the surface, nor is it prone to freezing you or burning down everything around you
Oh and it's not full of birds, insects, animals, fish and plants that want to eat you or poison you
I was reading that there have been huge cuts in the LA Fire Dept with $17m cut last year alone
The Mayor was apparantly warned that the cuts would mean that the LAFD would not be able to deal with a serious fire
They also stopped maintenance of fire hydrants which led to lots not working and because no one was checking them apparently hundreds have been stolen and weighed in for scrap
Those that remained have suffered from water shortages
Also that the state had stopped clearing deadwood and brush from forest areas ... to leave them natural, but unfortunately providing a huge amount of tinder for the fires
Seems like a lot bad decisions haven't helped
The Mayor is apparantly on holiday in Ghana and was cornered by a reporter and interviewed ... well
https://x.com/amconmag/status/1877125521038868627?...
And the state directs most rainwater direct into the Pacific rather than collect it
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why...
The Mayor was apparantly warned that the cuts would mean that the LAFD would not be able to deal with a serious fire
They also stopped maintenance of fire hydrants which led to lots not working and because no one was checking them apparently hundreds have been stolen and weighed in for scrap
Those that remained have suffered from water shortages
Also that the state had stopped clearing deadwood and brush from forest areas ... to leave them natural, but unfortunately providing a huge amount of tinder for the fires
Seems like a lot bad decisions haven't helped
The Mayor is apparantly on holiday in Ghana and was cornered by a reporter and interviewed ... well
https://x.com/amconmag/status/1877125521038868627?...
And the state directs most rainwater direct into the Pacific rather than collect it
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why...
Earthdweller said:
I was reading that there have been huge cuts in the LA Fire Dept with $17m cut last year alone
The Mayor was apparantly warned that the cuts would mean that the LAFD would not be able to deal with a serious fire
They also stopped maintenance of fire hydrants which led to lots not working and because no one was checking them apparently hundreds have been stolen and weighed in for scrap
Those that remained have suffered from water shortages
Also that the state had stopped clearing deadwood and brush from forest areas ... to leave them natural, but unfortunately providing a huge amount of tinder for the fires
Seems like a lot bad decisions haven't helped
The Mayor is apparantly on holiday in Ghana and was cornered by a reporter and interviewed ... well
https://x.com/amconmag/status/1877125521038868627?...
And the state directs most rainwater direct into the Pacific rather than collect it
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why...
They have been having these fires consistently over the last 100 years and like many other problems they have seem to do nothing to help themselves prevent or deal with them. They’ll be opening the ‘thoughts and prayers’ bag and then put it away until this time next year.The Mayor was apparantly warned that the cuts would mean that the LAFD would not be able to deal with a serious fire
They also stopped maintenance of fire hydrants which led to lots not working and because no one was checking them apparently hundreds have been stolen and weighed in for scrap
Those that remained have suffered from water shortages
Also that the state had stopped clearing deadwood and brush from forest areas ... to leave them natural, but unfortunately providing a huge amount of tinder for the fires
Seems like a lot bad decisions haven't helped
The Mayor is apparantly on holiday in Ghana and was cornered by a reporter and interviewed ... well
https://x.com/amconmag/status/1877125521038868627?...
And the state directs most rainwater direct into the Pacific rather than collect it
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why...
Yeah, it is as bad as it looks on the news and video clips. For those in the Western parts of the US, there is an app called Watch Duty that provides a lot of very valuable detail and information as well as tracking the fires and their progress in as close to real-time as possible.
This is the current status at 10.46 on the 9th.
Dark red is the fire or directly affected areas. The lighter red is what is called a Red Flag Warning indicating that there is imminent danger. Either evacuation or progress of the fire. It also indicates that there is a high risk of fires starting in these areas also. Currently the red flag warning is in place until friday at 6PM PST. I am guessing that this is because the high winds are supposed to drop at this point.
There is a video going around of a McDonalds burning and its a great illustration of the issues that the firefighters are having. The very high Santa Anna winds are fueling and spreading the fire. The speed of the spread is shocking, but its also accelerating the fire to end of the world type stuff.
If anyone does take a look at what is happening, just be a little cautious of those trying to score political points or make this a political situation. A cynical eye is a good place to start.
What I can say is that the resources that are now there are doing a phenomenal job. My local fire districts have multiple crews already on scene helping, as have many other Californian, other state and even country resources are in place helping. Its difficult to fight a fire up hill when the wind is blowing at 100MPH. Current state is 18,000 acres and 0% contained at the moment. This is likely to grow in the coming days, the wind will drop and they have an opportunity to get ahead of the problem.
California is a tinderbox and has been for decades. Some parts are better than others, but the risk is still high. My insurance just jumped massively in the last few years, but I am taking measures to make my property more wildfire proof. Its not great and its a pain in the arse, but its got to be done. All Californians need to get on board - we need to take active measures, not rely on to fix things should the worst happen.
This is the current status at 10.46 on the 9th.
Dark red is the fire or directly affected areas. The lighter red is what is called a Red Flag Warning indicating that there is imminent danger. Either evacuation or progress of the fire. It also indicates that there is a high risk of fires starting in these areas also. Currently the red flag warning is in place until friday at 6PM PST. I am guessing that this is because the high winds are supposed to drop at this point.
There is a video going around of a McDonalds burning and its a great illustration of the issues that the firefighters are having. The very high Santa Anna winds are fueling and spreading the fire. The speed of the spread is shocking, but its also accelerating the fire to end of the world type stuff.
If anyone does take a look at what is happening, just be a little cautious of those trying to score political points or make this a political situation. A cynical eye is a good place to start.
What I can say is that the resources that are now there are doing a phenomenal job. My local fire districts have multiple crews already on scene helping, as have many other Californian, other state and even country resources are in place helping. Its difficult to fight a fire up hill when the wind is blowing at 100MPH. Current state is 18,000 acres and 0% contained at the moment. This is likely to grow in the coming days, the wind will drop and they have an opportunity to get ahead of the problem.
California is a tinderbox and has been for decades. Some parts are better than others, but the risk is still high. My insurance just jumped massively in the last few years, but I am taking measures to make my property more wildfire proof. Its not great and its a pain in the arse, but its got to be done. All Californians need to get on board - we need to take active measures, not rely on to fix things should the worst happen.
The moment the reporter get told in his ear who he is interviewing 
https://x.com/vantagezagato/status/187673719607962...
https://x.com/vantagezagato/status/187673719607962...
Earthdweller said:
Also that the state had stopped clearing deadwood and brush from forest areas ... to leave them natural, but unfortunately providing a huge amount of tinder for the fires
Iirc this was a take-away of the big fires in Australia in the 15-20 period?And also similarly, making farmers re-wild their artificial drainage ditches and so on, rather than maintain/dredge, what causes extra flooding here recently.
A finer balance needs to be found to sustainability.
It's was a firestorm whipped up by hurricane force winds, I'm not sure what they could have brought to bear on it to contain the fire, I used to go to the palisades area every year to Gladstones a restaurant on the side of the beach, the whole place has been raised to the ground, untold amounts of $$$$$ property turned to ash all the way along the beach, crazy.
Hub said:
It's devastating.
Could be one of the most expensive insurance losses on record too? The properties around those areas aren't cheap.
Sky news were saying this morning that many properties are uninsured as because insurance companies don’t want the risk! I guess the homeowners think they can replace it out their own pocket!Could be one of the most expensive insurance losses on record too? The properties around those areas aren't cheap.
Hub said:
It's devastating.
Could be one of the most expensive insurance losses on record too? The properties around those areas aren't cheap.
It's shocking.Could be one of the most expensive insurance losses on record too? The properties around those areas aren't cheap.
I wonder how many thousands of people will be looking for (temporary...likely to be years) accommodation? How will the whole community cope? There must be thousands of people not at work.
Earthdweller said:
I was reading that there have been huge cuts in the LA Fire Dept with $17m cut last year alone
The Mayor was apparantly warned that the cuts would mean that the LAFD would not be able to deal with a serious fire
They also stopped maintenance of fire hydrants which led to lots not working and because no one was checking them apparently hundreds have been stolen and weighed in for scrap
Those that remained have suffered from water shortages
Also that the state had stopped clearing deadwood and brush from forest areas ... to leave them natural, but unfortunately providing a huge amount of tinder for the fires
Seems like a lot bad decisions haven't helped
The Mayor is apparantly on holiday in Ghana and was cornered by a reporter and interviewed ... well
https://x.com/amconmag/status/1877125521038868627?...
And the state directs most rainwater direct into the Pacific rather than collect it
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why...
Be cautious. There are a lot of people trying to score political points at the moment, which is a shame. A whole bunch of states and certain right leaning people have it out for California. Its just a shame that they use a situation like this (where people have died) as an opportunity to do this.The Mayor was apparantly warned that the cuts would mean that the LAFD would not be able to deal with a serious fire
They also stopped maintenance of fire hydrants which led to lots not working and because no one was checking them apparently hundreds have been stolen and weighed in for scrap
Those that remained have suffered from water shortages
Also that the state had stopped clearing deadwood and brush from forest areas ... to leave them natural, but unfortunately providing a huge amount of tinder for the fires
Seems like a lot bad decisions haven't helped
The Mayor is apparantly on holiday in Ghana and was cornered by a reporter and interviewed ... well
https://x.com/amconmag/status/1877125521038868627?...
And the state directs most rainwater direct into the Pacific rather than collect it
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashoka/2015/04/15/why...
I'll put a few things into perspective though. Yes, its true that LA county fire protection did reduce its budget by $17m. But this was mainly due to the elimination of open roles / jobs. Remember how things like this get funded - you account for everyone and everything in advance. And if you dont fill the roles, or dont need them, they are still in the budget. You just drop them for the next budget.
Also, the budget was $820m and for this current period has increased to $903m. Its all about context.
Brush clearance? Yeah, thats a super complex issue. Fire fighters have no ability to enter a persons property unless its on fire or is imminent danger. Brush clearance is therefore not easy. First you need to have a local law that enforces something, this then need to be investigated and then individuals who dont comply are cited. Again, its difficult to enforce still. You might be able to fine people, but only after additional stages can they force the property owner to do the work, or they actually do it for you. And then that leads to issues with why do they get it for free while I dont etc.
Many people just dont bother and just ignore it. For public land, yeah that needs to get done, but it is often sorted out. Its private land owners who cause the issue here and its really not easy. I got cited this year for a small patch of land that I needed to clear weeds that are known to turn into tinder in suimmer. Got mad, frustrated and swore a lot - but I did the work. We all need to pitch in here.
No water in the hydrants? Yeah, thats also a complex issue too. While I am sure there are instances that hydrants have been stolen etc, I am doubtful. The area is SUPER WEALTHY and I seriously think that this would have happened at any sort of scale. As for the water supply? It didnt run dry, but there was clearly a massive demand. As the fire progressed up hill, fanned by 100MPH winds, the pressure was reduced as they took the supply further and further up the mountain. Supply couldnt keep up on the pressure, not the supply. The water is there, you just need to pump it. However, i would say that this was a disaster waiting to happen. I understand that the area had 3 tanks of 1m gallons each. This is no where good enough. My local water agency has 8m gallons for a population of 10,000 and this is regarded to be insufficient. Pacific Palisades has a city population of 23k, so they are well out of even close to what they might need. Was this 'corruption'? Was it mismanagement? Who knows, but it was a f-up on their behalf. That was never going to be good enough, but then again, no one really thinks that this type of thing will happen.
I could go on. But you get the point. Oh, and the Mayor on holiday? How inconvenient that a natural disaster happened while they were on holiday! How dare they. Can they not take holidays when this happens next time please?
All I ask is to look at the context and have a critical eye. Everything has to be politics these days, even in natural disasters and times when people have lost their lives. The firefighters that are there are doing an amazing job. I know a few Cal-Fire people and they are utterly amazing people! Literally running into the fire to save people, property and anything else. Amazing people and they deserve the utmost respect.
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