Headlamp upgrades
Discussion
Hi everyone,
New Cerb owner here. How have I got to the age of 48 without ever owning one of these fabulous cars! Also my first TVR. Am loving it. I bought the aston sage green one off Collecting Cars last week. It's a 1998 4.2 with the updated front end. Anyway, went out for my first drive in darkness last night and jesus the lights are awful. I'm sure I'd read somewhere that the headlights on these cars were ok... not on mine. I'd say dipped beam is next to useless, main beam like a normal dipped beam.
Is this just how they are or are there upgrades you can do?
New Cerb owner here. How have I got to the age of 48 without ever owning one of these fabulous cars! Also my first TVR. Am loving it. I bought the aston sage green one off Collecting Cars last week. It's a 1998 4.2 with the updated front end. Anyway, went out for my first drive in darkness last night and jesus the lights are awful. I'm sure I'd read somewhere that the headlights on these cars were ok... not on mine. I'd say dipped beam is next to useless, main beam like a normal dipped beam.
Is this just how they are or are there upgrades you can do?
The original lamps were sufficient for the times, but modern lighting is just so much better! One of my regular cars has LEDs and TBH, I rarely drive my Griff in the dark. I had a Cerbera few years ago that had better filaments fitted (just upping the wattage will draw more current and could be damaging to the wiring).
However, I looked at CC and see that the car has already had a light conversion (a 1998 car would have originally had the single large lenses):
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1998-tvr-cerbe...
There may be better items out there as I presume they may be sealed units, but you may have to live with them.
However, I looked at CC and see that the car has already had a light conversion (a 1998 car would have originally had the single large lenses):
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1998-tvr-cerbe...
There may be better items out there as I presume they may be sealed units, but you may have to live with them.
There several improvements you can make to the quad light setup.
You could fit HID bulbs, which make a big improvement. I used HIDs for many years, but they have their downsides: 1. They make for a cumbersome setup with all the wiring and ballast boxes, 2. They are slow to warm up and 3. They are prone to flicker/failure after a few years.
These days LED bulbs are just as bright and much easier to fit. I use these for both dipped and main:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0BKSTVQFK/ref=ya...
I also use relays from the battery with built-in fuses and drive them from the original wiring.
Your lights might need a clean. It’s a fiddly job but you can remove the back of the projector lights and clean the lenses, which can cloud up. You can also inspect the reflectors. I repaired mine with some mirror tape (the reflector of a projector lamp is not as crucial to the beam pattern as it is with a regular light, because the beam cutoff is achieved with a metal plate that sits between the reflector and lens).
I modified the plate to remove the nearside upsweep, so the beam is completely horizontal (for use on the continent)
Finally, you may need to rotate them to get a nice flat cutoff. There are slots in the light housing to allow for some adjustment.
After that you can align them with the adjusters.
Working with these lights is a bit of a PITA due to the access method, but it’s worth the effort.
You could fit HID bulbs, which make a big improvement. I used HIDs for many years, but they have their downsides: 1. They make for a cumbersome setup with all the wiring and ballast boxes, 2. They are slow to warm up and 3. They are prone to flicker/failure after a few years.
These days LED bulbs are just as bright and much easier to fit. I use these for both dipped and main:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0BKSTVQFK/ref=ya...
I also use relays from the battery with built-in fuses and drive them from the original wiring.
Your lights might need a clean. It’s a fiddly job but you can remove the back of the projector lights and clean the lenses, which can cloud up. You can also inspect the reflectors. I repaired mine with some mirror tape (the reflector of a projector lamp is not as crucial to the beam pattern as it is with a regular light, because the beam cutoff is achieved with a metal plate that sits between the reflector and lens).
I modified the plate to remove the nearside upsweep, so the beam is completely horizontal (for use on the continent)
Finally, you may need to rotate them to get a nice flat cutoff. There are slots in the light housing to allow for some adjustment.
After that you can align them with the adjusters.
Working with these lights is a bit of a PITA due to the access method, but it’s worth the effort.
barchetta_boy said:
Thanks. So my car would originally have had the single large lamps? I actually prefer that look, but probably won't bother to swap back
Looks a lovely low mileage example of a Cerbera especially in that colour combo and all the expensive work has been done already, enjoy the beast whilst its sunny, spring is around the corner! 
LucyP said:
If you put anything other than halogen bulbs in the unit, then it will fail the MOT.
Perhaps in theory, but if the lights have the correct beam pattern, alignment and colour temperature, very few MOT centres will fail it. Mine hasn’t for 20 years and different MOT centres.You may be able to source complete LED units (including the lens). I've got the old style headlights and newer tech halogen bulbs do make a difference , as does wiring in a better feed from the battery and switching with relays.
LED bulbs in halogen housings could be an issue (MoT wise) although apparently ok in older cars (pre1980s something....).
LED bulbs in halogen housings could be an issue (MoT wise) although apparently ok in older cars (pre1980s something....).
LEDs in halogen fitting are always rubbish. A massive bright pool of light right in front of the car and nothing thrown down the road. It doesn't matter how much you spend, they are never right.
An upgraded halogen bulb is the best that you can do. Replace the reflectors too as they have probably gone dull and check that the bulbs are getting their full quota of current.
An upgraded halogen bulb is the best that you can do. Replace the reflectors too as they have probably gone dull and check that the bulbs are getting their full quota of current.
FarmyardPants said:
LucyP said:
If you put anything other than halogen bulbs in the unit, then it will fail the MOT.
Perhaps in theory, but if the lights have the correct beam pattern, alignment and colour temperature, very few MOT centres will fail it. Mine hasn’t for 20 years and different MOT centres.Source - automotive lighting engineer for 22 years.
FarmyardPants said:
(Snip)
I also use relays from the battery with built-in fuses and drive them from the original wiring.
(Snip)
Hang on! Do Cerbs not use lighting relays as standard? I also use relays from the battery with built-in fuses and drive them from the original wiring.
(Snip)
Honest question - I have no idea.
This is likely to be the most improvement for your money. Just eliminating the voltage drop through the various switches, which can be considerable.
See also: thorough clean/ remake of earth connections on the lights. Another oft-overlooked cause of voltage drop.
I could hardly believe the huge difference fifteen quidsworth of relays and fuses made to my Midgets lights and since then I've done the same thing with another couple of (other people's) classics.
Big difference every time.
I found the lights on my Griffith to be laughable at first, then realised it’s because we have all got used to modern cars with super bright lights.
I don’t use it much in the dark and it’s perfectly visible to others.
High beam on the Griffith is better as its the lights in the air intake that serve that function, the lights under the perspex are the dip main beam.
Either way the extra driving lights performance cars used to wear make sense now!
Not just cars, I love the look of this Berliet TR352
A tasteful version of this on the Cerbera could be Cibie Oscar Mini LED
https://www.demon-tweeks.com/cibie-mini-oscar-led-...
Which could incorporate quite nicely in the Cerbera grille coupled with a minimal sized front number plate to retain airflow.
Or a PIAA light bar:
https://donbarrow.co.uk/piaa-s-rf-series-led-light...
Which with a little ingenuity could just pick up on the number plate mounting holes.
I don’t use it much in the dark and it’s perfectly visible to others.
High beam on the Griffith is better as its the lights in the air intake that serve that function, the lights under the perspex are the dip main beam.
Either way the extra driving lights performance cars used to wear make sense now!
Not just cars, I love the look of this Berliet TR352
A tasteful version of this on the Cerbera could be Cibie Oscar Mini LED
https://www.demon-tweeks.com/cibie-mini-oscar-led-...
Which could incorporate quite nicely in the Cerbera grille coupled with a minimal sized front number plate to retain airflow.
Or a PIAA light bar:
https://donbarrow.co.uk/piaa-s-rf-series-led-light...
Which with a little ingenuity could just pick up on the number plate mounting holes.
Cerbera 1 (Reflector OG lights) - 55w HID 5000K
Someone had already replaced the Halogens with higher power (and thus no-longer road legal) 80 or 100w bulbs iirc. Light output was adequate but not great (probably because of the higher wattage bulbs). Being low down also restricts the 'throw'.
I installed a 5500k 55w HID kit with a relay - the whole installation was a right faff. Light output was amazing, but it introduced glare for oncoming traffic. Being young, I installed a light tint to the headlights which incidentally solved the issue of oncoming glare, but I reckon a 35w kit would have solved that.
I also wish I had gone with a slightly warmer temp (4500-5000k).
LEDs didn't exist at the time, but reckon they would work well if you used the ones I used below on Cerbera 2 (but with a warmer bulb temp).
Cerbera 2 (Projector style facelift lights) - 30w/5400Lumen (claimed) LED 6000k
By the time I had my second Cerb, LED lights were everywhere. I reckon noone would bat an eye-lid at the glare from the 55w HID kit I used on the old Cerb if I still had it tbh.
Halogen bulbs in this setup seemed worse than any other car I remember.
This setup with the LEDs was perfect, probably could have gotten away with brighter bulbs, but they worked well, installation was incredibly simple and the colour temp suited the projector style housing.
Bearing in mind, the later Projector style lamps are better at controlling glare vs the older reflectors, but with the car being so low and the latest German/electric cars being equiped with 10,000,000,000lumen LEDs, I don't think you will really bother anyone anymore.
Someone had already replaced the Halogens with higher power (and thus no-longer road legal) 80 or 100w bulbs iirc. Light output was adequate but not great (probably because of the higher wattage bulbs). Being low down also restricts the 'throw'.
I installed a 5500k 55w HID kit with a relay - the whole installation was a right faff. Light output was amazing, but it introduced glare for oncoming traffic. Being young, I installed a light tint to the headlights which incidentally solved the issue of oncoming glare, but I reckon a 35w kit would have solved that.
I also wish I had gone with a slightly warmer temp (4500-5000k).
LEDs didn't exist at the time, but reckon they would work well if you used the ones I used below on Cerbera 2 (but with a warmer bulb temp).
Cerbera 2 (Projector style facelift lights) - 30w/5400Lumen (claimed) LED 6000k
By the time I had my second Cerb, LED lights were everywhere. I reckon noone would bat an eye-lid at the glare from the 55w HID kit I used on the old Cerb if I still had it tbh.
Halogen bulbs in this setup seemed worse than any other car I remember.
This setup with the LEDs was perfect, probably could have gotten away with brighter bulbs, but they worked well, installation was incredibly simple and the colour temp suited the projector style housing.
Bearing in mind, the later Projector style lamps are better at controlling glare vs the older reflectors, but with the car being so low and the latest German/electric cars being equiped with 10,000,000,000lumen LEDs, I don't think you will really bother anyone anymore.
Edited by Billy_Rosewood on Thursday 9th January 15:34
LucyP said:
LEDs in halogen fitting are always rubbish. A massive bright pool of light right in front of the car and nothing thrown down the road. It doesn't matter how much you spend, they are never right.
An upgraded halogen bulb is the best that you can do. Replace the reflectors too as they have probably gone dull and check that the bulbs are getting their full quota of current.
How surprising, Lucy weighs in without bothering to read the whole thread. The OP's car doesn't have the original reflectors fitted. An upgraded halogen bulb is the best that you can do. Replace the reflectors too as they have probably gone dull and check that the bulbs are getting their full quota of current.
sixor8 said:
How surprising, Lucy weighs in without bothering to read the whole thread. The OP's car doesn't have the original reflectors fitted.
Quite.I wouldn’t advocate HID or LED in a traditional reflector headlight. Probably this is where Loo Seat Pee got confused.
Projector lights give a sharp and total cutoff regardless of the illumination technology.
TVR even offered HID as an option on the later headlights IIRC.
As for self-levelling, like most MOTable features, this has to function correctly if an OEM feature, but is not required if the car did not come with it.
Per my initial reply, the later headlight setup can be made to work well, without dazzling anyone, and without failing MOT.
Peterpetrole said:
FarmyardPants said:
LucyP said:
If you put anything other than halogen bulbs in the unit, then it will fail the MOT.
Perhaps in theory, but if the lights have the correct beam pattern, alignment and colour temperature, very few MOT centres will fail it. Mine hasn’t for 20 years and different MOT centres.Source - automotive lighting engineer for 22 years.
Someone hit me from behind while I was stationary. Amazingly, the insurance assessor didn’t take the front wheels off, extract the bulbs, google the part number, and reject the claim.
But I’m quaking in my boots in case it happens again.
FarmyardPants said:
Peterpetrole said:
FarmyardPants said:
LucyP said:
If you put anything other than halogen bulbs in the unit, then it will fail the MOT.
Perhaps in theory, but if the lights have the correct beam pattern, alignment and colour temperature, very few MOT centres will fail it. Mine hasn’t for 20 years and different MOT centres.Source - automotive lighting engineer for 22 years.
Someone hit me from behind while I was stationary. Amazingly, the insurance assessor didn’t take the front wheels off, extract the bulbs, google the part number, and reject the claim.
But I’m quaking in my boots in case it happens again.
If you fit non compliant light sources (eg LEDs) in an existing old headlight that was approved for H7 incandescent bulbs, then dazzle someone who has an accident...... yes you'll be in trouble.
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