LED Downlight - Fixed Bulb? Surely not?

[CloudStuff]

Hello, DIY thicko here.

I have the (mis)fortune of having Enlite EN-DE8/40 downlights installed in a bathroom.

Based on my searching so far, I understand the bulbs are fixed / integrated and if they go, the entire unit has to be replaced.

Two of these have now stopped working. Can it really be the case that the entire units have to be replaced?

[Andeh1]

Yeah pretty common, albeit it a bad idea!!

Measure the hole size, and buy normal GU10 housing types.

[CloudStuff]

Andeh1 said:

Yeah pretty common, albeit it a bad idea!!

Measure the hole size, and buy normal GU10 housing types.

Thanks a lot - every day's a school day!

[Andeh1]

Just be grateful you don't have the ones that get plastered in and sit flush with the paint work! ;)

[Sheepshanks]

If you look at the Screwfix site, there’s dozens of fully integrated LED downlights.

[grahamr88]

In defence of the fully integrated units… I’ve got about 30 of what I think is the same model (Enlite E8) around my house, the oldest of which are over 8 years old, and none have failed.
Meanwhile, the six GU10 units that I have are forever failing; I reckon I replace one every couple of months. Cheap lamps, expensive lamps, makes little difference - they just don’t last.

[CloudStuff]

Sheepshanks said:

If you look at the Screwfix site, there’s dozens of fully integrated LED downlights.

Surprises me that this is an established design, but it is what it is I guess!

[Sheepshanks]

CloudStuff said:

Surprises me that this is an established design, but it is what it is I guess!

There’s pros and cons to both.

[Gren]

grahamr88 said:

In defence of the fully integrated units… I’ve got about 30 of what I think is the same model (Enlite E8) around my house, the oldest of which are over 8 years old, and none have failed.
Meanwhile, the six GU10 units that I have are forever failing; I reckon I replace one every couple of months. Cheap lamps, expensive lamps, makes little difference - they just don’t last.

Same I have 14 of these fitted in 3 rooms. All are between 3-5 years old and none have failed. I got them because they look more sleek/better finished than the bulb changing ones. The electrician who fitted them said he'd never heard of one going - not sure how many he'd fitted though

I've also got around 20 or so normal LED spots in other rooms. I reckon I change 1 every year so they're not that bad either. I tend to buy these as they have a decent beam spread so less shadows :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00T6HMZVK/ref...

[snotrag]

I used to work in this industry.

There is no way I'd be installing lighting that uses GU10 style LED 'bulbs'.

LED works far, far better in an integrated unit without the compromises of trying to cram it into a bulb size its not designed for.

Integrated fittings are better in every way other than possibly initial cost.

The OP has simply been unlucky.

[tux850]

CloudStuff said:

Surprises me that this is an established design, but it is what it is I guess!

There are numerous benefits, not least the ability to provide far greater cooling to the lamp which is the number one way to maximise longevity.

[Pheo]

Which is a good point for the OP - have they been covered in insulation above or is there an another heat related issue?

[mattlovescars93]

I also prefer the fixed LED units rather than continually replacing bulbs, however like all things there good and bad examples. I replaced some cheap ones fitted by the house builder with these JCC ones and I’m really impressed, they are really easy to wire with push down connectors, have interchangeable face plates and you can select the wattage and lumens level without taking the light out.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/JC1101NB.htm...

[CloudStuff]

Well every day really is a school day. Thanks for all the replies.

I think we probably have just been unlucky, as 50% of the units have failed in this one bathroom, but they've lasted 8 years and that's not a disastrous lifespan.

The loft is immediately above this bathroom, to answer a question above, so presumably heat management was a sensible consideration for the sparky to make.

Will get them replaced. Thanks all!

Edited by CloudStuff on Tuesday 7th January 17:12

Edited by CloudStuff on Tuesday 7th January 17:13

[Jakg]

Pheo said:

Which is a good point for the OP - have they been covered in insulation above or is there an another heat related issue?

The Enlite units are rated as "insulation coverable" so it shouldn't be a problem.

I've kitted out two houses with them and had one or two failures in 5+ years.

[twocolours]

mattlovescars93 said:

I also prefer the fixed LED units rather than continually replacing bulbs, however like all things there good and bad examples. I replaced some cheap ones fitted by the house builder with these JCC ones and I’m really impressed, they are really easy to wire with push down connectors, have interchangeable face plates and you can select the wattage and lumens level without taking the light out.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/JC1101NB.htm...

They look pretty decent, do they have any kind of delay when switching on?

I recently fitted some Luceco downlights that have an annoying delay (approx. 2 secs) when turning on, though having done some reading it seems common for LED downlights to do this.

[mattlovescars93]

No delay, by the time the switch is fully depressed they’re on. Here’s a photo of them installed, sure I’ll get called council for going anthracite but they work well with the rest of our lighting.

[twocolours]

mattlovescars93 said:

No delay, by the time the switch is fully depressed they’re on. Here’s a photo of them installed, sure I’ll get called council for going anthracite but they work well with the rest of our lighting.

Thanks, I may give them a try in that case

[biggiles]

Fixed lights may be technically better, but I also had an Enlite fail after ~6 years. (No problems with Enlite per se).

Of course you can't get the same model anymore, so I had to rip the whole unit out of the ceiling and fit a replacement which is similar but slightly different. This will only get worse - models change every few years. Whereas GU10 / BC bulbs have been around for decades.

[PhilboSE]

biggiles said:

Fixed lights may be technically better, but I also had an Enlite fail after ~6 years. (No problems with Enlite per se).

Of course you can't get the same model anymore, so I had to rip the whole unit out of the ceiling and fit a replacement which is similar but slightly different. This will only get worse - models change every few years. Whereas GU10 / BC bulbs have been around for decades.

This is the biggest issue.

I replaced a bunch of nasty MR16 halogens with integrated LED units in a kitchen. Think they were Enlite and had something like a 50,000 hour MTBF quoted. Even so, I bought 4 extras as spares.

Well before 12 months were up all the spares were used and they just kept on failing. Same model no longer available so now I’ve got a mix of different lights in one room.

Talking to sparkies they’ve all had the same experience and now fit GU10 units. I accept the arguments over the integrated units being technically better but my real world experience is that the GU10 bulbs last longer.

Also gives you the choice of swapping out the bulbs when the wife decides she wants extra bright cool white units in the bathroom.