House insurance during probate - advice needed please
Discussion
I've recently lost my Dad, and as part of the estate there's a house and contents.
I've informed Barclays who have frozen the accounts, but as he paid his House insurance monthly, the monies won't be taken out from now on and as I understand it the policy will become invalidated.
Now, I'm not sure if I can speak to the insurers and ask them to continue the policy which I'll pay for up until the house is sold, or do I need to arrange something with the bank or different insurers so as the house and contents are covered , as the policy in my Dads name is ,as I understand it, no longer in place from a legal standpoint as he is no longer with us. (I'm really unsure though)
The contents also form part of the estate, I am reluctant to remove items of value as that could be construed as theft (I'm not sure about that, just hearsay from others but I've no intention of keeping them hidden or otherwise, just safe at my house, I've already removed items of sentimental value such as diaries and photographs and important docs).
The cost is immaterial at this point, I'm just coming to terms with things and really don't know the best course of action from here. I need the house and contents to be insured, but I'm neither the owner or occupier.
I am the executor of the will.
Any advice gratefully received, and I do have a solicitor but they're currently probably enjoying the Xmas holidays in the Maldives supping champagne and don't open for a few more days.
Many thanks in advance.
I've informed Barclays who have frozen the accounts, but as he paid his House insurance monthly, the monies won't be taken out from now on and as I understand it the policy will become invalidated.
Now, I'm not sure if I can speak to the insurers and ask them to continue the policy which I'll pay for up until the house is sold, or do I need to arrange something with the bank or different insurers so as the house and contents are covered , as the policy in my Dads name is ,as I understand it, no longer in place from a legal standpoint as he is no longer with us. (I'm really unsure though)
The contents also form part of the estate, I am reluctant to remove items of value as that could be construed as theft (I'm not sure about that, just hearsay from others but I've no intention of keeping them hidden or otherwise, just safe at my house, I've already removed items of sentimental value such as diaries and photographs and important docs).
The cost is immaterial at this point, I'm just coming to terms with things and really don't know the best course of action from here. I need the house and contents to be insured, but I'm neither the owner or occupier.
I am the executor of the will.
Any advice gratefully received, and I do have a solicitor but they're currently probably enjoying the Xmas holidays in the Maldives supping champagne and don't open for a few more days.
Many thanks in advance.
I was in a similar position 3 years ago as executor to my Father's estate.
His existing household insurers were very helpful and agreed to maintain cover. So in your position my first action would be to call them and explain exactly what was happening, including whether the house is occupied, ask them to keep providing cover and see what they say.
No doubt different insurers have different attitudes to this, but it is the simplest route if they are helpful.
I removed valuable items, particularly those I thought fragile or theft attractive, such as HI Fi, TV and ornaments. My understanding is that as executor you have a duty to look after the property pending valuation and sale or other disposal, so providing a safe storage is not theft. Although of course if you have various interested parties it is probably best to tell them what has been stored where. I was lucky, the only residual legatees where myself and my daughter, so no one really to argue about anything. (I am on good terms with daughter!)
I hope that is of some help, and good luck with the process.
PS- your solicitor may haver access to specialist cover for property in these circumstances, worth asking them if you have no joy with the current insurer.
His existing household insurers were very helpful and agreed to maintain cover. So in your position my first action would be to call them and explain exactly what was happening, including whether the house is occupied, ask them to keep providing cover and see what they say.
No doubt different insurers have different attitudes to this, but it is the simplest route if they are helpful.
I removed valuable items, particularly those I thought fragile or theft attractive, such as HI Fi, TV and ornaments. My understanding is that as executor you have a duty to look after the property pending valuation and sale or other disposal, so providing a safe storage is not theft. Although of course if you have various interested parties it is probably best to tell them what has been stored where. I was lucky, the only residual legatees where myself and my daughter, so no one really to argue about anything. (I am on good terms with daughter!)
I hope that is of some help, and good luck with the process.
PS- your solicitor may haver access to specialist cover for property in these circumstances, worth asking them if you have no joy with the current insurer.
Thanks Mac96, I owe you a beer.
He was with Aviva so tomorrow I'll give them a call, as I'm sure they've had this situation happen before.
Regarding the valuables, I'll put them in safe keeping tomorrow and keep a video / photo record for the beneficiaries of the estate and will inform the solicitors the valuables are at my house by email so at least there is a "trail" they can follow.
I am confused as the legality of it all, hence my question. The aforementioned beneficiaries may call into question my honesty over all of this, so I'm keen to get it right. As executor I understand I work in the interests of the estate and those inheritors, but I think the best thing I can do is document and account for everything at this point.
Thanks again mate. Most Appreciated.
He was with Aviva so tomorrow I'll give them a call, as I'm sure they've had this situation happen before.
Regarding the valuables, I'll put them in safe keeping tomorrow and keep a video / photo record for the beneficiaries of the estate and will inform the solicitors the valuables are at my house by email so at least there is a "trail" they can follow.
I am confused as the legality of it all, hence my question. The aforementioned beneficiaries may call into question my honesty over all of this, so I'm keen to get it right. As executor I understand I work in the interests of the estate and those inheritors, but I think the best thing I can do is document and account for everything at this point.
Thanks again mate. Most Appreciated.
Top tip - keep dated notes, a diary if you will. You'll have 101 things going on, it's a stressful time, and it's easy to lose track of a detail or two.
Top tip two - the Tell Us Once service is a massive timesaver, https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you...
As above, insurers deal with this sort of situation all the time and will usually be very helpful, it's the sort of thing best dealt with on the phone.
There's nothing wrong with removing items from the house for safe storage, just keep a note of what goes where.
It might be worth spending a few quid on replacement door locks. People give out spares to neighbours, carers, etc., and a fresh set just resets all that. Change the alarm code if there is one.
Top tip two - the Tell Us Once service is a massive timesaver, https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you...
As above, insurers deal with this sort of situation all the time and will usually be very helpful, it's the sort of thing best dealt with on the phone.
There's nothing wrong with removing items from the house for safe storage, just keep a note of what goes where.
It might be worth spending a few quid on replacement door locks. People give out spares to neighbours, carers, etc., and a fresh set just resets all that. Change the alarm code if there is one.
Firstly, sorry for your loss.
I have been through this and to be honest it's about the only time that pretty much every organisation that I dealt with has been quick, thoughtful and efficient. Most have a "bereavements" department who specialise in this, hopefully insurance is the main thing and they can sort you out quickly and painlessly.
In regards to physically moving things / making secure / whatever then that I would suggest entirely depends on the other beneficiaries and whether there is likely to be any unpleasantness. Do you have a copy of the will and is it simple and uncontentious?
When my father died it was only myself and my sister so we basically just cracked on, had a shared google sheet listing what we had done, things we had taken and estimated value, cost we had born - mainly for the probate and execution of the will so that in the end we just added it all up and divided by two. That's the ideal scenario, pretty much full trust - depending on who are potential beneficiaries and who are actual beneficiaries, you wish to take more care with the documentation.
-edit- as I understand it, as executor you have full powers to make safe and look after the possessions, just be mindful that if this gets contentious then someone will remember every teaspoon, earring and watch - even if they haven't been in your father's possession for many years. Paperwork is king in these situations, but I hope it's not needed for you.
I hope it works out well for you, it's a difficult time
I have been through this and to be honest it's about the only time that pretty much every organisation that I dealt with has been quick, thoughtful and efficient. Most have a "bereavements" department who specialise in this, hopefully insurance is the main thing and they can sort you out quickly and painlessly.
In regards to physically moving things / making secure / whatever then that I would suggest entirely depends on the other beneficiaries and whether there is likely to be any unpleasantness. Do you have a copy of the will and is it simple and uncontentious?
When my father died it was only myself and my sister so we basically just cracked on, had a shared google sheet listing what we had done, things we had taken and estimated value, cost we had born - mainly for the probate and execution of the will so that in the end we just added it all up and divided by two. That's the ideal scenario, pretty much full trust - depending on who are potential beneficiaries and who are actual beneficiaries, you wish to take more care with the documentation.
-edit- as I understand it, as executor you have full powers to make safe and look after the possessions, just be mindful that if this gets contentious then someone will remember every teaspoon, earring and watch - even if they haven't been in your father's possession for many years. Paperwork is king in these situations, but I hope it's not needed for you.
I hope it works out well for you, it's a difficult time
Edited by another-steveb on Sunday 29th December 23:21
shtu said:
Top tip - keep dated notes, a diary if you will. You'll have 101 things going on, it's a stressful time, and it's easy to lose track of a detail or two.
Top tip two - the Tell Us Once service is a massive timesaver, https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you...
As above, insurers deal with this sort of situation all the time and will usually be very helpful, it's the sort of thing best dealt with on the phone.
There's nothing wrong with removing items from the house for safe storage, just keep a note of what goes where.
It might be worth spending a few quid on replacement door locks. People give out spares to neighbours, carers, etc., and a fresh set just resets all that. Change the alarm code if there is one.
Thanks for the advice, I'm meeting with the registrar tomorrow for the Tell us once code and getting 4 copies of the death cert.Top tip two - the Tell Us Once service is a massive timesaver, https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you...
As above, insurers deal with this sort of situation all the time and will usually be very helpful, it's the sort of thing best dealt with on the phone.
There's nothing wrong with removing items from the house for safe storage, just keep a note of what goes where.
It might be worth spending a few quid on replacement door locks. People give out spares to neighbours, carers, etc., and a fresh set just resets all that. Change the alarm code if there is one.
I'll keep a written diary of events, that's a great tip.
House has CCTV inside and out and a Ring doorbell which are all in my name and upload to my cloud, so no issues there, but yes, locks will be changed anyway for any new potential buyers, handy as my cousin is a locksmith!.
Thanks for the tips, appreciated.
another-steveb said:
Firstly, sorry for your loss.
I have been through this and to be honest it's about the only time that pretty much every organisation that I dealt with has been quick, thoughtful and efficient. Most have a "bereavements" department who specialise in this, hopefully insurance is the main thing and they can sort you out quickly and painlessly.
In regards to physically moving things / making secure / whatever then that I would suggest entirely depends on the other beneficiaries and whether there is likely to be any unpleasantness. Do you have a copy of the will and is it simple and uncontentious?
When my father died it was only myself and my sister so we basically just cracked on, had a shared google sheet listing what we had done, things we had taken and estimated value, cost we had born - mainly for the probate and execution of the will so that in the end we just added it all up and divided by two. That's the ideal scenario, pretty much full trust - depending on who are potential beneficiaries and who are actual beneficiaries, you wish to take more care with the documentation.
I hope it works out well for you, it's a difficult time
Thanks for the good wishes mate, it's been a very tough week and although it's hard to come to terms with, I'll be the first to admit I'm not dealing with it very well at all, on any level, least of all emotionally.I have been through this and to be honest it's about the only time that pretty much every organisation that I dealt with has been quick, thoughtful and efficient. Most have a "bereavements" department who specialise in this, hopefully insurance is the main thing and they can sort you out quickly and painlessly.
In regards to physically moving things / making secure / whatever then that I would suggest entirely depends on the other beneficiaries and whether there is likely to be any unpleasantness. Do you have a copy of the will and is it simple and uncontentious?
When my father died it was only myself and my sister so we basically just cracked on, had a shared google sheet listing what we had done, things we had taken and estimated value, cost we had born - mainly for the probate and execution of the will so that in the end we just added it all up and divided by two. That's the ideal scenario, pretty much full trust - depending on who are potential beneficiaries and who are actual beneficiaries, you wish to take more care with the documentation.
I hope it works out well for you, it's a difficult time
The will itself is fairly simple in its instruction to my best knowledge,as yet I've not seen it or found a copy, but the solicitors are shut until the 1st so until then I can only do so much.
Bereavement sections of companies I had no idea of until I got through to Barclays, and tbh I had no idea other companies have specific departments until you told me! - another helpful tip (I'm so pleased I put this topic up despite initial reservations), i'll explore that for the utilities, phone company Sky etc.I guess google is my friend in this case.
My concern regarding keeping valuable goods at my house, documented and photographed has been cleared up. I've learned not to listen to hearsay and to ask people who might know better, it is not theft, it is caretaking of goods for safety.
The consensus is to keep solid, verifiable records, document everything and just in case have a chat with the brief. I honestly had no idea that Companies have bereavement sections, that'll save me stress and hassle.
Thanks for the advice, and my goodwill beer bill is getting bigger by the hour!.
Sorry for your loss.
I've no experience in this matter, but one thing that you might need to check is whether your moving any valuables to your house might in any way invalidate YOUR household insurance (e.g in terms of the total amount insured at your home).
It would be ironic and unfortunate if the items were moved from your father's house (where they will hopefully continue to be covered by the insurance there) to another location where they might possibly not be insured.
I imagine that it's a vanishingly unlikely scenario, and absolutely appreciate that your intentions are of the best, but you may wish to check.
I've no experience in this matter, but one thing that you might need to check is whether your moving any valuables to your house might in any way invalidate YOUR household insurance (e.g in terms of the total amount insured at your home).
It would be ironic and unfortunate if the items were moved from your father's house (where they will hopefully continue to be covered by the insurance there) to another location where they might possibly not be insured.
I imagine that it's a vanishingly unlikely scenario, and absolutely appreciate that your intentions are of the best, but you may wish to check.
Thanks for the guidance Everyone.
The bereavement team thing is a new one on me, I'll report back later as things develop.
regarding my own house insurance covering the valuable, good point, luckily we have the same insurers so I might be able to tie in something there, but tbh the valuables are not necessarily running into the tens of thousands, we're talking at best, £5k. I've got a lot of "classified military" stuff from the 50's 60's and 70's which the MOD can feel free to put my Dad to trial for, but restricted photo's of the Queen visiting various Naval Bases are probably not worth worrying about. There's a bit of stuff they might not want in the public domain though, so that'll getkept by me destroyed.
The bereavement team thing is a new one on me, I'll report back later as things develop.
regarding my own house insurance covering the valuable, good point, luckily we have the same insurers so I might be able to tie in something there, but tbh the valuables are not necessarily running into the tens of thousands, we're talking at best, £5k. I've got a lot of "classified military" stuff from the 50's 60's and 70's which the MOD can feel free to put my Dad to trial for, but restricted photo's of the Queen visiting various Naval Bases are probably not worth worrying about. There's a bit of stuff they might not want in the public domain though, so that'll get
Firstly, sorry for your loss - I’m currently going through similar as the executor for my late sister in law.
With regards to insurance, there are specific policies that cover the gap between now and probate grant.
I found it easier to talk to a person and used these guys. https://www.ukinsurancenet.com/
Also, regarding managing the accounts, there are services out there now that reduce the amount of contacts you need to make.
Take a look at settld.care and life ledger.
You put in the details of the accounts and they will do the scanning and notifications to companies for you.
Feel free to drop me a private message, I’ve been going through the spreadsheets and admin so happy to share the background files and templates I’ve been using.
Regarding taking things from the house, your duty as executor is to protect the assets, it does not mean you must leave them in situ. If there are valuables that you do not feel are secure in an unoccupied house then you can take them elsewhere.
If other siblings or beneficiaries may get involved, photograph/film and catalogue everything with a quick walk around first and then document what you have moved and why. There should be no major issue with this as long as you are storing them responsibly wherever you have moved them to (i.e. inside your house, not a wafer thin garden shed).
With regards to insurance, there are specific policies that cover the gap between now and probate grant.
I found it easier to talk to a person and used these guys. https://www.ukinsurancenet.com/
Also, regarding managing the accounts, there are services out there now that reduce the amount of contacts you need to make.
Take a look at settld.care and life ledger.
You put in the details of the accounts and they will do the scanning and notifications to companies for you.
Feel free to drop me a private message, I’ve been going through the spreadsheets and admin so happy to share the background files and templates I’ve been using.
Regarding taking things from the house, your duty as executor is to protect the assets, it does not mean you must leave them in situ. If there are valuables that you do not feel are secure in an unoccupied house then you can take them elsewhere.
If other siblings or beneficiaries may get involved, photograph/film and catalogue everything with a quick walk around first and then document what you have moved and why. There should be no major issue with this as long as you are storing them responsibly wherever you have moved them to (i.e. inside your house, not a wafer thin garden shed).
Edited by Vanity Projects on Monday 30th December 07:31
Edited by Vanity Projects on Monday 30th December 07:32
texaxile said:
I am reluctant to remove items of value as that could be construed as theft
Don’t worry, there is no way it could be interpreted as theft.Theft is defined as the dishonest appropriation of property with the intention to permanently deprive the owner of the property.
If you moved items to a safer place, you’d be doing it for entirely honest reasons (especially if you tell other family members what you’re doing), so that part of the definition is not met. You’d also be doing it temporarily, not permanently, and it wouldn’t be your intention to deprive anyone of it. So literally no part of the definition of theft is satisfied.
On the subject of insurance, you need to contact the insurer and ask to be put through to their bereavement team. They will have a process for it. Don’t simply speak to the normal call handler - they’ll have specialist people whose job is to handle this stuff.
By the way, the same thing goes for all the other companies and organisations you’ll need to speak to over the coming months. Banks, insurers, utilities, mobile phone companies, Sky, Virgin, etc etc… they’ll all have a bereavement team, and in my experience those people are the more experienced and knowledgeable ones. Always state up front that you want to talk to the bereavement team, and you’ll get a much better service.
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Monday 30th December 07:59
My condolences on your loss.
I used https://www.ceta.co.uk/ for unoccupied house insurance after my mother passed, until the property was sold.
I used https://www.ceta.co.uk/ for unoccupied house insurance after my mother passed, until the property was sold.
texaxile said:
Thanks for the advice, I'm meeting with the registrar tomorrow for the Tell us once code and getting 4 copies of the death cert.
Having been through this with a relatively simple probate situation, I'd advise getting extra copies of the death cert up front. I think we used about 8 or 9 as my mum had little savings accounts here and there.No way do you need eight or nine death certs. Two or three are more than enough as most organisations send them back by return.
Just remember everything doesn’t have to be done at once. There is no rush to notify everyone.
The insurer on mother in laws house wanted a log for anyone that went in the house to sign and insisted a visit every two weeks. In this weather keep the heating on too.
Utilities won’t want payment until estate is settled
Just remember everything doesn’t have to be done at once. There is no rush to notify everyone.
The insurer on mother in laws house wanted a log for anyone that went in the house to sign and insisted a visit every two weeks. In this weather keep the heating on too.
Utilities won’t want payment until estate is settled
Sorry for your loss…..it’s a tough time and to have the responsibilities as executor when it’s all new at this time isn’t easy. Sounds like you are doing absolutely fine in doing the right things, even though it’s tough.
My wife had to deal with some of this for a distant relative. On the house insurance element, speak to the insurers as you say and they will support. We found them excellent as others have noted as they deal with this kind of thing a lot…..and normally you get to speak to a human and not a computer. The only element that was a bit of a bind in our case was the insurers required some level of “oversight” of the property on a regular basis (I think it was weekly) but the distant relative lived 100 miles away. If you live relatively close to your father’s house this wouldn’t be a problem.
As we are in winter then you need to consider things like leaving heating on a ‘trickle” heating to prevent any pipe bursts etc as we get into the colder weather.
My wife had to deal with some of this for a distant relative. On the house insurance element, speak to the insurers as you say and they will support. We found them excellent as others have noted as they deal with this kind of thing a lot…..and normally you get to speak to a human and not a computer. The only element that was a bit of a bind in our case was the insurers required some level of “oversight” of the property on a regular basis (I think it was weekly) but the distant relative lived 100 miles away. If you live relatively close to your father’s house this wouldn’t be a problem.
As we are in winter then you need to consider things like leaving heating on a ‘trickle” heating to prevent any pipe bursts etc as we get into the colder weather.
craig1912 said:
No way do you need eight or nine death certs. Two or three are more than enough as most organisations send them back by return.
Just remember everything doesn’t have to be done at once. There is no rush to notify everyone.
The insurer on mother in laws house wanted a log for anyone that went in the house to sign and insisted a visit every two weeks. In this weather keep the heating on too.
Utilities won’t want payment until estate is settled
It does depend on family circumstances, I needed five as there were two executors and surviving fathers of two sets of kids so we ended up with one each so they could manage various bits and one for spare.Just remember everything doesn’t have to be done at once. There is no rush to notify everyone.
The insurer on mother in laws house wanted a log for anyone that went in the house to sign and insisted a visit every two weeks. In this weather keep the heating on too.
Utilities won’t want payment until estate is settled
craig1912 said:
No way do you need eight or nine death certs. Two or three are more than enough as most organisations send them back by return.
Just remember everything doesn’t have to be done at once. There is no rush to notify everyone.
The insurer on mother in laws house wanted a log for anyone that went in the house to sign and insisted a visit every two weeks. In this weather keep the heating on too.
Utilities won’t want payment until estate is settled
Death certs -this is perfectly true; however I found it simpler to be able to send essentially the same letter to each organisation at the same time; it made it easier to know where I was up to and ensured they all had my name/address from the outset. A matter of choice.Just remember everything doesn’t have to be done at once. There is no rush to notify everyone.
The insurer on mother in laws house wanted a log for anyone that went in the house to sign and insisted a visit every two weeks. In this weather keep the heating on too.
Utilities won’t want payment until estate is settled
mac96 said:
Death certs -this is perfectly true; however I found it simpler to be able to send essentially the same letter to each organisation at the same time; it made it easier to know where I was up to and ensured they all had my name/address from the outset. A matter of choice.
A matter of choice - true but most organisations don’t need a letter. Having been through two deaths in the last year I didn’t write one letter. A call, email or online notification was done and they sent me the form with prepaid envelope etc. to send documentation off.Worst dept was NS &I but insurers and utilities were pretty good.
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