Magistrate’s court summons, pleaded not guilty
Discussion
Hi Guys,
Hope all is well.. Season Greetings to one and all
Would be grateful for advise on how to fight this case in court. Please find the traffic offence report cut and pasted below. Was up for SJP but due to my mitigating statement it fell through and now gone for trial
Charged with careless driving, section 3 of the RTA
Looking back, several loopholes. I got a clean license, zero points, been a very safe driver with 13 yrs NCB
Basically stopped at night, driving in rain and wintry conditions. Plod thought I was going too slow for the motorway.
Points to fight
1) He got the date wrong, 18th instead of 19th
2) Exaggerating: claims my driving causes congestion, which is bs, as it was nearing midnight and traffic was thin
3) Matched or pacing speed 45-50. Which I think was reasonable for the driving conditions.
4) Is pacing safe in such driving conditions? At night, with ‘ traffic congestion’
5) Requested all evidence in file, from the Traffic Police Prosecutor, Still waiting to hear from them
6) Also asked about the speedometer and it’s calibration.
7) Last SAR response was that no dash cam footage exists
8) There was another plod in the car, was tightlipped, except when he breathlysed me. His details or presence is not mentioned anywhere in the traffic offence report
I know I'm on thin ice but will defend myself. That my driving was safe and appropriate for the weather and light conditions, as per the Highway traffic code
Any advise would be much appreciated
D Evans
At material time, date and location vehicle overleaf was observed travelling in lane 1 of a motorway at low speed. Vehicle was followed matching it’s speed which dropped as low as 40 Mph and fluctuated between 45– 55.
Prior to following and matching speed, I’d observed HGV’s and cars having to slow and overtake vehicle overleaf that was causing congestion and inconvenience to other road users. When driver was spoken to he made comments that he knew he was driving slower than 70mph but didn’t know what speed, didn’t know he had been driving at 35mph, didn’t like driving in the dark and rain and was tired after a long stressful week at work. It is reporting officers comments that driver education would be more beneficial than points and a fine / prosecution. MG11 original notes and then signed
Hope all is well.. Season Greetings to one and all
Would be grateful for advise on how to fight this case in court. Please find the traffic offence report cut and pasted below. Was up for SJP but due to my mitigating statement it fell through and now gone for trial
Charged with careless driving, section 3 of the RTA
Looking back, several loopholes. I got a clean license, zero points, been a very safe driver with 13 yrs NCB
Basically stopped at night, driving in rain and wintry conditions. Plod thought I was going too slow for the motorway.
Points to fight
1) He got the date wrong, 18th instead of 19th
2) Exaggerating: claims my driving causes congestion, which is bs, as it was nearing midnight and traffic was thin
3) Matched or pacing speed 45-50. Which I think was reasonable for the driving conditions.
4) Is pacing safe in such driving conditions? At night, with ‘ traffic congestion’
5) Requested all evidence in file, from the Traffic Police Prosecutor, Still waiting to hear from them
6) Also asked about the speedometer and it’s calibration.
7) Last SAR response was that no dash cam footage exists
8) There was another plod in the car, was tightlipped, except when he breathlysed me. His details or presence is not mentioned anywhere in the traffic offence report
I know I'm on thin ice but will defend myself. That my driving was safe and appropriate for the weather and light conditions, as per the Highway traffic code
Any advise would be much appreciated
D Evans
At material time, date and location vehicle overleaf was observed travelling in lane 1 of a motorway at low speed. Vehicle was followed matching it’s speed which dropped as low as 40 Mph and fluctuated between 45– 55.
Prior to following and matching speed, I’d observed HGV’s and cars having to slow and overtake vehicle overleaf that was causing congestion and inconvenience to other road users. When driver was spoken to he made comments that he knew he was driving slower than 70mph but didn’t know what speed, didn’t know he had been driving at 35mph, didn’t like driving in the dark and rain and was tired after a long stressful week at work. It is reporting officers comments that driver education would be more beneficial than points and a fine / prosecution. MG11 original notes and then signed
drferns27 said:
Hi Guys,
Hope all is well.. Season Greetings to one and all
Would be grateful for advise on how to fight this case in court. Please find the traffic offence report cut and pasted below. Was up for SJP but due to my mitigating statement it fell through and now gone for trial
Charged with careless driving, section 3 of the RTA
Looking back, several loopholes. I got a clean license, zero points, been a very safe driver with 13 yrs NCB
Basically stopped at night, driving in rain and wintry conditions. Plod thought I was going too slow for the motorway.
Points to fight
1) He got the date wrong, 18th instead of 19th
2) Exaggerating: claims my driving causes congestion, which is bs, as it was nearing midnight and traffic was thin
3) Matched or pacing speed 45-50. Which I think was reasonable for the driving conditions.
4) Is pacing safe in such driving conditions? At night, with ‘ traffic congestion’
5) Requested all evidence in file, from the Traffic Police Prosecutor, Still waiting to hear from them
6) Also asked about the speedometer and it’s calibration.
7) Last SAR response was that no dash cam footage exists
8) There was another plod in the car, was tightlipped, except when he breathlysed me. His details or presence is not mentioned anywhere in the traffic offence report
I know I'm on thin ice but will defend myself. That my driving was safe and appropriate for the weather and light conditions, as per the Highway traffic code
Any advise would be much appreciated
D Evans
At material time, date and location vehicle overleaf was observed travelling in lane 1 of a motorway at low speed. Vehicle was followed matching it’s speed which dropped as low as 40 Mph and fluctuated between 45– 55.
Prior to following and matching speed, I’d observed HGV’s and cars having to slow and overtake vehicle overleaf that was causing congestion and inconvenience to other road users. When driver was spoken to he made comments that he knew he was driving slower than 70mph but didn’t know what speed, didn’t know he had been driving at 35mph, didn’t like driving in the dark and rain and was tired after a long stressful week at work. It is reporting officers comments that driver education would be more beneficial than points and a fine / prosecution. MG11 original notes and then signed
Do you agree you were driving at those speeds, and what was your reason for doing so?Hope all is well.. Season Greetings to one and all
Would be grateful for advise on how to fight this case in court. Please find the traffic offence report cut and pasted below. Was up for SJP but due to my mitigating statement it fell through and now gone for trial
Charged with careless driving, section 3 of the RTA
Looking back, several loopholes. I got a clean license, zero points, been a very safe driver with 13 yrs NCB
Basically stopped at night, driving in rain and wintry conditions. Plod thought I was going too slow for the motorway.
Points to fight
1) He got the date wrong, 18th instead of 19th
2) Exaggerating: claims my driving causes congestion, which is bs, as it was nearing midnight and traffic was thin
3) Matched or pacing speed 45-50. Which I think was reasonable for the driving conditions.
4) Is pacing safe in such driving conditions? At night, with ‘ traffic congestion’
5) Requested all evidence in file, from the Traffic Police Prosecutor, Still waiting to hear from them
6) Also asked about the speedometer and it’s calibration.
7) Last SAR response was that no dash cam footage exists
8) There was another plod in the car, was tightlipped, except when he breathlysed me. His details or presence is not mentioned anywhere in the traffic offence report
I know I'm on thin ice but will defend myself. That my driving was safe and appropriate for the weather and light conditions, as per the Highway traffic code
Any advise would be much appreciated
D Evans
At material time, date and location vehicle overleaf was observed travelling in lane 1 of a motorway at low speed. Vehicle was followed matching it’s speed which dropped as low as 40 Mph and fluctuated between 45– 55.
Prior to following and matching speed, I’d observed HGV’s and cars having to slow and overtake vehicle overleaf that was causing congestion and inconvenience to other road users. When driver was spoken to he made comments that he knew he was driving slower than 70mph but didn’t know what speed, didn’t know he had been driving at 35mph, didn’t like driving in the dark and rain and was tired after a long stressful week at work. It is reporting officers comments that driver education would be more beneficial than points and a fine / prosecution. MG11 original notes and then signed
Feel the plod was Ott
I probably was doing something like 50-55 and at times dropping below that. He seemed to have selectively chosen speeds. Asked for dash cam footage, but response was none exists.
There's no min speed limit and I feel I was careful, rather than careless. For the road conditions at that time
I probably was doing something like 50-55 and at times dropping below that. He seemed to have selectively chosen speeds. Asked for dash cam footage, but response was none exists.
There's no min speed limit and I feel I was careful, rather than careless. For the road conditions at that time
drferns27 said:
Hi Guys,
Hope all is well.. Season Greetings to one and all
Would be grateful for advise on how to fight this case in court. Please find the traffic offence report cut and pasted below. Was up for SJP but due to my mitigating statement it fell through and now gone for trial
Charged with careless driving, section 3 of the RTA
Looking back, several loopholes. I got a clean license, zero points, been a very safe driver with 13 yrs NCB
Basically stopped at night, driving in rain and wintry conditions. Plod thought I was going too slow for the motorway.
Points to fight
1) He got the date wrong, 18th instead of 19th
2) Exaggerating: claims my driving causes congestion, which is bs, as it was nearing midnight and traffic was thin
3) Matched or pacing speed 45-50. Which I think was reasonable for the driving conditions.
4) Is pacing safe in such driving conditions? At night, with ‘ traffic congestion’
5) Requested all evidence in file, from the Traffic Police Prosecutor, Still waiting to hear from them
6) Also asked about the speedometer and it’s calibration.
7) Last SAR response was that no dash cam footage exists
8) There was another plod in the car, was tightlipped, except when he breathlysed me. His details or presence is not mentioned anywhere in the traffic offence report
I know I'm on thin ice but will defend myself. That my driving was safe and appropriate for the weather and light conditions, as per the Highway traffic code
Any advise would be much appreciated
D Evans
At material time, date and location vehicle overleaf was observed travelling in lane 1 of a motorway at low speed. Vehicle was followed matching it’s speed which dropped as low as 40 Mph and fluctuated between 45– 55.
Prior to following and matching speed, I’d observed HGV’s and cars having to slow and overtake vehicle overleaf that was causing congestion and inconvenience to other road users. When driver was spoken to he made comments that he knew he was driving slower than 70mph but didn’t know what speed, didn’t know he had been driving at 35mph, didn’t like driving in the dark and rain and was tired after a long stressful week at work. It is reporting officers comments that driver education would be more beneficial than points and a fine / prosecution. MG11 original notes and then signed
In light of the last paragraph, why is this even going to court?Hope all is well.. Season Greetings to one and all
Would be grateful for advise on how to fight this case in court. Please find the traffic offence report cut and pasted below. Was up for SJP but due to my mitigating statement it fell through and now gone for trial
Charged with careless driving, section 3 of the RTA
Looking back, several loopholes. I got a clean license, zero points, been a very safe driver with 13 yrs NCB
Basically stopped at night, driving in rain and wintry conditions. Plod thought I was going too slow for the motorway.
Points to fight
1) He got the date wrong, 18th instead of 19th
2) Exaggerating: claims my driving causes congestion, which is bs, as it was nearing midnight and traffic was thin
3) Matched or pacing speed 45-50. Which I think was reasonable for the driving conditions.
4) Is pacing safe in such driving conditions? At night, with ‘ traffic congestion’
5) Requested all evidence in file, from the Traffic Police Prosecutor, Still waiting to hear from them
6) Also asked about the speedometer and it’s calibration.
7) Last SAR response was that no dash cam footage exists
8) There was another plod in the car, was tightlipped, except when he breathlysed me. His details or presence is not mentioned anywhere in the traffic offence report
I know I'm on thin ice but will defend myself. That my driving was safe and appropriate for the weather and light conditions, as per the Highway traffic code
Any advise would be much appreciated
D Evans
At material time, date and location vehicle overleaf was observed travelling in lane 1 of a motorway at low speed. Vehicle was followed matching it’s speed which dropped as low as 40 Mph and fluctuated between 45– 55.
Prior to following and matching speed, I’d observed HGV’s and cars having to slow and overtake vehicle overleaf that was causing congestion and inconvenience to other road users. When driver was spoken to he made comments that he knew he was driving slower than 70mph but didn’t know what speed, didn’t know he had been driving at 35mph, didn’t like driving in the dark and rain and was tired after a long stressful week at work. It is reporting officers comments that driver education would be more beneficial than points and a fine / prosecution. MG11 original notes and then signed
Why were you driving so slowly? You say "conditions", but apparently, vehicles (including HGVs), were having to overtake you? You were clearly causing an obstruction driving at 40 mph on a motorway, what was going on?
I got the offer for 100 quid and 3 points but forgot to send my driving license details. The it went through the SJP, pleaded guilty but wrote the facts, as above. It obviously was rejected and now am on court. Spoke to a Traffic Solicitor, who felt I have a case and the plod was Ott
Get lawyered up.
Google AGTLaw and Pistonheads.
You may be right, but it's their game and their pitch and use the system routinely. They work for their outcome not fairness or justice.
See the quote on the Twitter profile of a former Cop on Twitter:
“Wealth & contacts are better protection from prosecution than poverty and innocence" - Lawyer in CJS
https://x.com/mrchrisjohn
Google AGTLaw and Pistonheads.
You may be right, but it's their game and their pitch and use the system routinely. They work for their outcome not fairness or justice.
See the quote on the Twitter profile of a former Cop on Twitter:
“Wealth & contacts are better protection from prosecution than poverty and innocence" - Lawyer in CJS
https://x.com/mrchrisjohn
Edited by carinaman on Saturday 28th December 10:31
drferns27 said:
Spoke to a Traffic Solicitor, who felt I have a case and the plod was Ott
Well, there you go then. Take the traffic solicitor's advice.drferns27 said:
reporting officers comments that driver education would be more beneficial than points and a fine / prosecution."
— Doesn't sound very OTT, sounds very reasonable, the officer felt that driver education is needed.
Well, don't have that option now. it’s either guily or not guilty
Worse case scenario, 3-9 points or ban and added costs
Will take it as it comes
Points I'm gonna argue
-No dash cam footage exists: Why would they delete that?
-Plod made an error in dates: It probably would be covered by the slip rule but it does show he’s not very accurate?
Hoping to find some technical loophole: Such as callibration certificate etc
Worse case scenario, 3-9 points or ban and added costs
Will take it as it comes
Points I'm gonna argue
-No dash cam footage exists: Why would they delete that?
-Plod made an error in dates: It probably would be covered by the slip rule but it does show he’s not very accurate?
Hoping to find some technical loophole: Such as callibration certificate etc
drferns27 said:
Feel the plod was Ott
I probably was doing something like 50-55 and at times dropping below that. He seemed to have selectively chosen speeds. Asked for dash cam footage, but response was none exists.
There's no min speed limit and I feel I was careful, rather than careless. For the road conditions at that time
So driving tired, unable to maintain a constant speed and most likely talked themselves into getting stuck on when the police stopped OP to advise them of their driving.I probably was doing something like 50-55 and at times dropping below that. He seemed to have selectively chosen speeds. Asked for dash cam footage, but response was none exists.
There's no min speed limit and I feel I was careful, rather than careless. For the road conditions at that time
At 50 mph and less on a dark wet motorway OP was aiming to get a 40 tonne enema from a HGV as described in the evidence of the police officer.
OP was not the careful and competent driver that they seem to think that they were on this occasion.
The other officer keeping as you called it "tight lipped" doesn't mean that they think their colleague was OTT, they are simply allowing them to deal with the offence in front of them and as is normal in double crewed cars, the next stop they have, the positions will be reversed.
drferns27 said:
Points I'm gonna argue
-No dash cam footage exists: Why would they delete that?
-Plod made an error in dates: It probably would be covered by the slip rule but it does show he’s not very accurate?
Hoping to find some technical loophole: Such as callibration certificate etc
Why does it need dash-cam footage — what would it show?-No dash cam footage exists: Why would they delete that?
-Plod made an error in dates: It probably would be covered by the slip rule but it does show he’s not very accurate?
Hoping to find some technical loophole: Such as callibration certificate etc
Error in date, doesn't affect what he's reporting.
Why do you want the calibration certificate? You haven't been done for speeding.
You still haven't explained why you were driving so slowly. It must have occurred to you that when everyone was having to overtake you (including HGVs), then perhaps it was you that was out of step? Any traffic police officer that witnesses such bizarre behavior is likely to investigate, don't you think? You may have been having a medical episode.
Edited by Sebring440 on Saturday 28th December 10:50
drferns27 said:
Well, don't have that option now. it’s either guily or not guilty
Worse case scenario, 3-9 points or ban and added costs
Will take it as it comes
Points I'm gonna argue
-No dash cam footage exists: Why would they delete that?
-Plod made an error in dates: It probably would be covered by the slip rule but it does show he’s not very accurate?
Hoping to find some technical loophole: Such as callibration certificate etc
I think you're on thin ice with those points. Worse case scenario, 3-9 points or ban and added costs
Will take it as it comes
Points I'm gonna argue
-No dash cam footage exists: Why would they delete that?
-Plod made an error in dates: It probably would be covered by the slip rule but it does show he’s not very accurate?
Hoping to find some technical loophole: Such as callibration certificate etc
I think you should get a Lawyer to represent you in Court unless you've painted yourself into a corner and it'll now make no difference to the outcome and be a waste of money.
I wasn't there, I didn't see it, but it may be a case that you've been legitimately stopped to be asked why you're dawdling on an M-Way and as there wasn't a defect with the car and you weren't drunk or drugged some action, or paperwork has to be generated to cover it. I know traffic ops. targeting problem driving in problem areas are judged on how many tickets or forms were created.
I don't know if you were obstructing other road users and HGV drivers, but such a scenario has reminded me of that Stockdale former Northants Special Constable and purveyor of dashcams who was messing around on the M1 with his dashcam on and subsequently tried to get a truck driver prosecuted. The truck driver was cleared in court.
You want to play loopholes and technicalities? It reads like you've got yourself into a bit of a pickle and you need a specialist Lawyer.
I wasn't there, I didn't see it, but it may be a case that you've been legitimately stopped to be asked why you're dawdling on an M-Way and as there wasn't a defect with the car and you weren't drunk or drugged some action, or paperwork has to be generated to cover it. I know traffic ops. targeting problem driving in problem areas are judged on how many tickets or forms were created.
I don't know if you were obstructing other road users and HGV drivers, but such a scenario has reminded me of that Stockdale former Northants Special Constable and purveyor of dashcams who was messing around on the M1 with his dashcam on and subsequently tried to get a truck driver prosecuted. The truck driver was cleared in court.
You want to play loopholes and technicalities? It reads like you've got yourself into a bit of a pickle and you need a specialist Lawyer.
Edited by carinaman on Saturday 28th December 10:52
Sebring440 said:
Here we go....
How much of the job is form filling?So if you've got Councillors moaning about loud and noisy cars in a City Centre and the Council relies on the 'Night Economy' how are the police going to demonstrate they've dealt with the problems?
Actually don't PR pieces printed in local rags state "Police held an operation with partner agencies at this location and X number of drivers were done for (insert list of offences)"?
Sebring440 said:
Here we go....
Diversity, my life experience may be different from yours?What am I supposed to do? Disregard my life experiences or just not share them to please a stranger on the Internet?
Sebring440 said:
Here we go....
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