208 GTI - 3 Cylinder version
Discussion
My work is moving premises and I'm going to need to drive. I did contemplate getting a cheap new electric car on a lease but I can't bring myself to do it. I like driving so don't want to punish myself. The criteria is something that's a decent drive but cheap to run so I was looking at small hot hatches. I decided on a 208 GTI, they seem good value for money and fly under the radar a bit compared to a Fiesta ST or a Corsa VXR.
I like to try and find a car that needs a bit of work, the idea being I fix it and I'm into for less than it's worth and can have some depreciation free motoring. You can pick up a ropey runner for £2500 so there's not much point looking at the bottom half of the market. I found a 2013 car with 26k on the clock, very low mileage for the year. It was actually the lowest mileage one I could find for sale anywhere at the time.
It was advertised as having a misfire at idle but drives fine otherwise. Up for £4500. It was being sold by a car dealership so I already know it's not going to be anything straight forward. I did a bit of research before committing.
I found it for sale from a previous garage (Corner Park Garage, local one to me). I gave them a call, they sold it a year ago for £9200
I also found it for sale 6 months later with 26k miles at John Pye Auctions (Swansea) advertised with a misfire. I don't know what it sold for then..
My assumption was the buyer had given it back to Corner Park and they'd not been able to fix it and put it into an auction. They said this wasn't the case but I was speaking to a different site of Corner Park as the one that sold it has closed down. I'm not convinced but either way, it's going to have been looked at by a garage before someone took a bath on it.
The garage that was now selling it was in Yorkshire. He explained it'd been in and out of their chosen garage for the last 6 months, they'd changed the high pressure fuel pump and the plugs and coils. He'd bought in a ropey GTI as spares and had swapped over the catalytic converter and a few other bits to test. At one point he said they'd sold it for 8k.
I don't know what makes me think I can fix a car multiple garages couldn't, blind faith and delusion probably. I'm willing to have a crack at it. I agreed a deal at £4250 delivered from Yorkshire to South Wales. He also put a fresh MOT on it.
IMG_20241216_100223548
The car came with a spare ECU. That was their next planned move. From looking about on the internet it's not unknown for an ECU to have issues. I found this https://www.problemwithecu.co.uk/repair-for-peugeo...
Peugeot 208 vehicles manufactured from 2013 to 2015 often suffer from engine management ECU failures. Typical symptoms include misfires, and diagnostic equipment may display fault codes indicating a misfiring cylinder 4, such as 140401 - Injection Deactivated, 140402 - Exhaust Relevant Error, 140404 - Exhaust Gas Relevant Error, and 140410 - Misfire Detected on Cylinder 4.
These are the codes I have so it looks like it could be a possible cause.
I opened up the old ECU (not easy they are glued in) and couldn't see any obvious signs of a problem. With Christmas around the corner I decided to send both ECU's off (to a different place) and get the new one cloned with the data from the original.as they could turn it around same day. This was a roll of the dice as I hadn't had a chance to look at it properly.
Before I'd sent them off I had a look at the diagnostics, he'd said it ran fine but dropped a cylinder at idle. It dropped 2 cylinders when I was looking at it.
It would start up, run a bit rough, then it seemed like the ECU detects a fault and shuts off cyl 4.
When the ecu came back I started it up and it seemed to run alright, no fault codes but it sounded like this.
With a rev it seemed to clear up so probably a lifter but the running alright lasted a minute or so. It then switched off a cyl 4.again. It's not like it comes in and out, the ECU permanently shut down the cylinder and then it triggers the fans. I don't know what happens if you drive it but the sellers runs alright claim can't be true if a cylinder is permanently shut down..
I started it up the next day to put it in the garage. It was running nice, bit of lifter noise but it cleared quickly. I took it around the block, it ran perfectly, the engine sounded good, it had full power. Got it back into the garage and within 20 seconds of idling the fans kicked in and it had switched off cyl 4 again.
The ECU is ruled out (assuming I wouldn't get 2 with the same hardware fault), plugs and coils are ruled out so I'm looking at the injector, wiring or possibly a physical issue on that cylinder, like a poorly sealing valve (the company I bought it off said they had done a leak down and compression test and the engine is physically fine. I need to check that for myself.though.
I'm struggling to find a wiring diagram for this car, I have the workshop manual but there are no wiring diagrams I can see in it, If anyone knows where I can find one, please let me know.
I like to try and find a car that needs a bit of work, the idea being I fix it and I'm into for less than it's worth and can have some depreciation free motoring. You can pick up a ropey runner for £2500 so there's not much point looking at the bottom half of the market. I found a 2013 car with 26k on the clock, very low mileage for the year. It was actually the lowest mileage one I could find for sale anywhere at the time.
It was advertised as having a misfire at idle but drives fine otherwise. Up for £4500. It was being sold by a car dealership so I already know it's not going to be anything straight forward. I did a bit of research before committing.
I found it for sale from a previous garage (Corner Park Garage, local one to me). I gave them a call, they sold it a year ago for £9200
I also found it for sale 6 months later with 26k miles at John Pye Auctions (Swansea) advertised with a misfire. I don't know what it sold for then..
My assumption was the buyer had given it back to Corner Park and they'd not been able to fix it and put it into an auction. They said this wasn't the case but I was speaking to a different site of Corner Park as the one that sold it has closed down. I'm not convinced but either way, it's going to have been looked at by a garage before someone took a bath on it.
The garage that was now selling it was in Yorkshire. He explained it'd been in and out of their chosen garage for the last 6 months, they'd changed the high pressure fuel pump and the plugs and coils. He'd bought in a ropey GTI as spares and had swapped over the catalytic converter and a few other bits to test. At one point he said they'd sold it for 8k.
I don't know what makes me think I can fix a car multiple garages couldn't, blind faith and delusion probably. I'm willing to have a crack at it. I agreed a deal at £4250 delivered from Yorkshire to South Wales. He also put a fresh MOT on it.
IMG_20241216_100223548The car came with a spare ECU. That was their next planned move. From looking about on the internet it's not unknown for an ECU to have issues. I found this https://www.problemwithecu.co.uk/repair-for-peugeo...
Peugeot 208 vehicles manufactured from 2013 to 2015 often suffer from engine management ECU failures. Typical symptoms include misfires, and diagnostic equipment may display fault codes indicating a misfiring cylinder 4, such as 140401 - Injection Deactivated, 140402 - Exhaust Relevant Error, 140404 - Exhaust Gas Relevant Error, and 140410 - Misfire Detected on Cylinder 4.
These are the codes I have so it looks like it could be a possible cause.
I opened up the old ECU (not easy they are glued in) and couldn't see any obvious signs of a problem. With Christmas around the corner I decided to send both ECU's off (to a different place) and get the new one cloned with the data from the original.as they could turn it around same day. This was a roll of the dice as I hadn't had a chance to look at it properly.
Before I'd sent them off I had a look at the diagnostics, he'd said it ran fine but dropped a cylinder at idle. It dropped 2 cylinders when I was looking at it.
It would start up, run a bit rough, then it seemed like the ECU detects a fault and shuts off cyl 4.
When the ecu came back I started it up and it seemed to run alright, no fault codes but it sounded like this.
With a rev it seemed to clear up so probably a lifter but the running alright lasted a minute or so. It then switched off a cyl 4.again. It's not like it comes in and out, the ECU permanently shut down the cylinder and then it triggers the fans. I don't know what happens if you drive it but the sellers runs alright claim can't be true if a cylinder is permanently shut down..
I started it up the next day to put it in the garage. It was running nice, bit of lifter noise but it cleared quickly. I took it around the block, it ran perfectly, the engine sounded good, it had full power. Got it back into the garage and within 20 seconds of idling the fans kicked in and it had switched off cyl 4 again.
The ECU is ruled out (assuming I wouldn't get 2 with the same hardware fault), plugs and coils are ruled out so I'm looking at the injector, wiring or possibly a physical issue on that cylinder, like a poorly sealing valve (the company I bought it off said they had done a leak down and compression test and the engine is physically fine. I need to check that for myself.though.
I'm struggling to find a wiring diagram for this car, I have the workshop manual but there are no wiring diagrams I can see in it, If anyone knows where I can find one, please let me know.
Edited by Escy on Monday 23 December 23:31
Tim_D said:
Smart car for £4k! Have you done a compression test?
The notoriously unreliable 1. 6 Prince engine. I am going to guess that the cylinder will be down on compression and it will be a burnt valve.Salvage rebuilds had the same issue with this engine in a Mini Cooper S. Despite replacing the valve they could never get it running properly so have up on it.
robsprocket said:
Faulty Crankshaft Position Sensor?
Possibility. Something I'll look into.Tim_D said:
Smart car for £4k! Have you done a compression test?
Not yet but I will. jimmyjimjim said:
I'm in. Wondering how much you'll get for the headlights on this one...
It won't end up in parts like the Punto did. MB140 said:
Can’t help in any way but I’m always in for an Escy thread, here’s hoping this one is less grief than you 2.0 diesel ignium thread
Best of luck with it.
It can't possibly be that bad. Best of luck with it.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
The notoriously unreliable 1. 6 Prince engine. I am going to guess that the cylinder will be down on compression and it will be a burnt valve.
Salvage rebuilds had the same issue with this engine in a Mini Cooper S. Despite replacing the valve they could never get it running properly so have up on it.
It's crossed my mind, the garage said they've checked it all out and it's not but I need to do my own checks. They bought the other GTI with the intention of putting that engine in this but the mechanic said there was no point.Salvage rebuilds had the same issue with this engine in a Mini Cooper S. Despite replacing the valve they could never get it running properly so have up on it.
tozerman said:
Why do you keep doing this to yourself 
Good luck with it, I'm in for the updates..
I'm a glutton for punishment. Good luck with it, I'm in for the updates..
bgunn said:
As said before, you do like a car with an engine that has a bad reputation. Been there with an R56 Mini, never again. I didn’t feel the engine when working warranted all of the effort!
Enjoyable reading your antics, for sure!
I know they are the same engine but I thought the 208 version had a lot of the issues worked out, they don't seem to have issues with the chains like the Mini did.Enjoyable reading your antics, for sure!
Escy said:
I know they are the same engine but I thought the 208 version had a lot of the issues worked out, they don't seem to have issues with the chains like the Mini did.
Going by my mate's experience.. They don't have anything worked out. He had to do the timing chain and loads of other issues. He's given up with it now. It smokes, mixes oil and water, uses oil, eats top mounts etc etc..Edited by Jhonno on Tuesday 24th December 11:29
I made a start on it. I noticed the expansion tank is a bit low, something I'll look into. The plan is to get the inlet manifold off so I could get access to the fuel injectors
Working on a car someone else has been at prior is always a worry. It was missing the pipe that feeds the airbox and pipe that comes from the airbox to the turbo inlet has the end completely missing so can't be clamped, it was just resting in place. This is post MAF so not ideal, it'll be drawing in unmetered air. I need to replace this.
Not the best way to check the wiring on the MAF, previous person was more a butcher than expert.
I got the inlet manifold off so I could access the injectors, this was quite fiddly. The main reason I started here was so I could check the wiring.back to the ECU (once I find a wiring diagram). I bought a spare injector as the motor factors had stock and it was £80 which seemed decent. I thought I should get one before Christmas just in case I needed it. I've checked the resistance across the injectors and they are all the same, I don't think the injector will be the problem but I'm thinking I may as well chuck it in anyway since it's all apart. Throwing parts at it isn't the right way to go about it but I guess if I rule enough stuff out I'll get there in the end.
Working on a car someone else has been at prior is always a worry. It was missing the pipe that feeds the airbox and pipe that comes from the airbox to the turbo inlet has the end completely missing so can't be clamped, it was just resting in place. This is post MAF so not ideal, it'll be drawing in unmetered air. I need to replace this.
Not the best way to check the wiring on the MAF, previous person was more a butcher than expert.
I got the inlet manifold off so I could access the injectors, this was quite fiddly. The main reason I started here was so I could check the wiring.back to the ECU (once I find a wiring diagram). I bought a spare injector as the motor factors had stock and it was £80 which seemed decent. I thought I should get one before Christmas just in case I needed it. I've checked the resistance across the injectors and they are all the same, I don't think the injector will be the problem but I'm thinking I may as well chuck it in anyway since it's all apart. Throwing parts at it isn't the right way to go about it but I guess if I rule enough stuff out I'll get there in the end.
Escy said:
bgunn said:
As said before, you do like a car with an engine that has a bad reputation. Been there with an R56 Mini, never again. I didn’t feel the engine when working warranted all of the effort!
Enjoyable reading your antics, for sure!
I know they are the same engine but I thought the 208 version had a lot of the issues worked out, they don't seem to have issues with the chains like the Mini did.Enjoyable reading your antics, for sure!
Will be interesting to see your progress, I hope you figure out the misfire issue quickly and cheaply. I've chased a few faults around mine over the last year. It had been running well for the last few months, but then popped up the dreaded 'Engine Fault' message this week
Interesting thread and a good interesting purchase there, misfire on idle could be an ever so slightly bent valve or conrod perhaps, I wouldn't imagine it would be a piece of valve missing as this would cause a permanent misfire.
Also bent conrod may not show up on compression test if its so slight and may only be seen through piston protrusion measurement.
Also bent conrod may not show up on compression test if its so slight and may only be seen through piston protrusion measurement.
Edited by Andrew-b90y3 on Thursday 26th December 16:39
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