Smart switches recommendations

[OttoMattik]

Looking to add some automation to my home in the form of smart light switches that can be controlled using Alexa. Mainly so we can turn lights on and off when we're away to simulate habitation.

Looking at different options that include Sonoff, Shelly, Zigbee etc - but I've noticed that there are 2 variants. One that is for sockets that have a neutral wire and ones for older properties without neutral.

I opened up some sockets yesterday but have no idea at what I'm looking for! Any ideas from more experienced members welcome.

[JimM169]

I'm no expert but the black sleeve over the blue wire in the bottom pic would indicate that both wires are live and therefore there's no neutral. Suspect it's the same for the second pic but hard to see clearly. First pic is anybody's guess as appears to be a mix of old and new wiring, would suggest it needs proper testing to be sure

Edited by JimM169 on Monday 16th December 15:00

[RizzoTheRat]

The blue in the first pic should be neutral, but you never know who's bodged what in the past, as above I'd want to get a multimeter in there to confirm what's what.

The black and the blue with a black sleeve should be a switched live going to the bulb, red and brown should be live, and green and yellow earth.

I would caution though that if you don't know what you're doing it's best to find someone who does. Messing about with mains wiring can cause problems from electrocution to fires.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Monday 16th December 15:05

[Road2Ruin]

The top two look like intermediate switches (part of a multi switch operation), the bottom one is normal all live.

[RizzoTheRat]

Road2Ruin said:

The top two look like intermediate switches (part of a multi switch operation), the bottom one is normal all live.

I take back what I said about the blue one, I think you may well be right, meaning that blue is a switched live traveler. I wouldn't be trusting the wiring colours in that house.

[Mr Pointy]

Yep, those with just two cores are without neutrals & the others are two-way or intermediate switches.

[ARHarh]

If it was me, and depending on space available in the light fitting. I would mount one of these in the ceiling light fitting. You will not have to rely on the no neutral stuff which can play up if the wrong bulbs are used. This also allows you to keep matching switches on the walls.

https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-plus-1/

Sonoff also do a similar relay.

[durbster]

One thing to note is the Zigbee ones without neutral don't act as routers, i.e. they don't pass on signals from other Zigbee devices, so they don't contribute to the mesh network.

I found this out after installing a Zigbee switch in the shed, intended to help bridge the gap from the house to the office. I only realised after I'd installed it that it was an end device.

So rather than a more robust network, all I have is frivolous automated shed lighting.

[RizzoTheRat]

durbster said:

One thing to note is the Zigbee ones without neutral don't act as routers, i.e. they don't pass on signals from other Zigbee devices, so they don't contribute to the mesh network.:

Some do. My Smartwise and Moes switches are all routers except the single gang Moes one, which does have a neutral.

[clockworks]

For lights that you want to control with Alexa, just fit smart bulbs. I've had no issues with Tapo and Extrastar light bulbs. You can go for dimmable, or dimmable and colour changing.

Leave the existing switches in place as a backup in case of WiFi/internet failure, or for people who don't understand voice control.

Shelly is good for controlling fans and sockets, and works with Alexa natively. Some Shelly products need the Shelly app and "scenes", which introduces more delays as it's cloud-based. If you want a quick response, avoid Shelly devices that need a dedicated Shelly hub.

[ARHarh]

clockworks said:

For lights that you want to control with Alexa, just fit smart bulbs. I've had no issues with Tapo and Extrastar light bulbs. You can go for dimmable, or dimmable and colour changing.

Leave the existing switches in place as a backup in case of WiFi/internet failure, or for people who don't understand voice control.

Shelly is good for controlling fans and sockets, and works with Alexa natively. Some Shelly products need the Shelly app and "scenes", which introduces more delays as it's cloud-based. If you want a quick response, avoid Shelly devices that need a dedicated Shelly hub.

Then when some one turns the switch off voice control won't work. It's not really a viable solution is it.

[Downward]

I’d put the switches back together and go down the hue route or tado.

Bulbs and the hubs are much easier.

[RizzoTheRat]

ARHarh said:

Then when some one turns the switch off voice control won't work. It's not really a viable solution is it.

This! My brother in law has Hue lighting, but visitors will always flip a switch and wonder why the light doesn't work. Smart switches make way more sense to me, as everything will still work as normal. If I was starting fresh now I'd consider using relays as the new ones like the latest Sonoff ZBMini's can be fitted by the bulb and use the switched live from the existing switches as a switching signal, making 3 way switches a lot less hassle.

[Road2Ruin]

RizzoTheRat said:

ARHarh said:

Then when some one turns the switch off voice control won't work. It's not really a viable solution is it.

This! My brother in law has Hue lighting, but visitors will always flip a switch and wonder why the light doesn't work. Smart switches make way more sense to me, as everything will still work as normal. If I was starting fresh now I'd consider using relays as the new ones like the latest Sonoff ZBMini's can be fitted by the bulb and use the switched live from the existing switches as a switching signal, making 3 way switches a lot less hassle.

You can put the switches back, but bypass them behind the faceplate, so they don't do anything.

[RizzoTheRat]

But if you're doing that you may as well put a relay behind it, or fit a smart switch, so you can still use the switch to turn the light on.

I do that in my lounge, I wanted dimmable bulbs but couldn't find a dimmer I like, so the 2 smartbulbs in the fitting are wired permanently on. Pressing the switch sets them to off or full brightness, and I have voice commands for low and medium brightness.

[ARHarh]

Road2Ruin said:

RizzoTheRat said:

ARHarh said:

Then when some one turns the switch off voice control won't work. It's not really a viable solution is it.

This! My brother in law has Hue lighting, but visitors will always flip a switch and wonder why the light doesn't work. Smart switches make way more sense to me, as everything will still work as normal. If I was starting fresh now I'd consider using relays as the new ones like the latest Sonoff ZBMini's can be fitted by the bulb and use the switched live from the existing switches as a switching signal, making 3 way switches a lot less hassle.

You can put the switches back, but bypass them behind the faceplate, so they don't do anything.

But then you have to explain to visitors they need an app to turn the light on. This is also not a suitable solution.

[ARHarh]

RizzoTheRat said:

But if you're doing that you may as well put a relay behind it, or fit a smart switch, so you can still use the switch to turn the light on.

I do that in my lounge, I wanted dimmable bulbs but couldn't find a dimmer I like, so the 2 smartbulbs in the fitting are wired permanently on. Pressing the switch sets them to off or full brightness, and I have voice commands for low and medium brightness.

I have not tried one or studied the docs but would this not do that job?

https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-plus-0-10...

Maybe not on reading more?????

[RizzoTheRat]

ARHarh said:

I have not tried one or studied the docs but would this not do that job?

https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-plus-0-10...

Maybe not on reading more?????

It's more about finding a knob/faceplate that would work..
European electrics use a pair of single backboxes with single switches in behind a double faceplate, rather than a double backbox like in the UK, so they're too close together to put a single switch and faceplate in each.
I went with a 3 gangs switch in one and a slightly cut down power socket in the other rather then being able to find a 2 gang and a dimmer that would fit.

It turns out that the Tradfri bulbs I used instead are phenomenally good zigbee routers and connect to virtually everything else in the house so it turned out well in the end

[SP_]

durbster said:

One thing to note is the Zigbee ones without neutral don't act as routers, i.e. they don't pass on signals from other Zigbee devices, so they don't contribute to the mesh network.

I found this out after installing a Zigbee switch in the shed, intended to help bridge the gap from the house to the office. I only realised after I'd installed it that it was an end device.

So rather than a more robust network, all I have is frivolous automated shed lighting.

Just get a cheap aliexpress zigbee plug or USB zigbee extender

[Greshamst]

If the end desired result here is to be able to have some lights coming on when you’re not home, I’d go for the much simpler option of having a lamp plugged into a £10 Tapo smart plug.

No need to mess around with switch plates etc and you can control your desired times, or set it to random from the plug app.